Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6

[Pink17]

Hi HP,

The whole nap could be the blood sugars going all over the place but the ADs work better after a month or even longer. I started with the lowest dosage possible, so I could build up from there. I did not need to increase it though. I feel the lowest dosage is working for me. But, every person is different, maybe you need a different kind of AD and for that you need to talk to your doctor about the side effects.

I also noticed that I felt good with the ADs but at first it gives you a sense of happiness but you are still struggling with the many worries and problems so it can put you to sleep because you escape from the troubles. It's very psychological so maybe you can ask you IC about the behavior.

Our minds work strangely well, and will in some ways protect us from harm. Be careful and try to find the source of these side effects. It's very important because you can go from irritated and angry to a very deep depression even taking the ADs.

Thanks for posting on my thread, I am in a very difficult spot right now. I need to make some decisions and I am very mixed up with all what is going on.

My H is not so much like your W, but is similar in some ways. He can't just leave me alone, he goes for a few days then he text, call or come to the house with some subject, or about the kids schedule, or to let me know what is his schedule, or ask for some paper. It's amazing that he always find the way to be connected.

I even ask myself why he does this if he wants out. I am giving him all the space he needs, I almost never call him for anything. But, as DB says I should not ask too many questions of why he does what he does and just pay attention to his actions.

It's like he says something and does different stuff. Well it's a soap opera and right now I really don't see how it will all end. It's running it's course to a D, but who knows, life changes and it may be all different tomorrow.

Hope your life keeps the good stuff as it is in that direction right now. You have been changing yourself. Doing the baby steps so it is a slow but constant grow in your spirit.

Good lucky to you.
Hugs,
Pink

[Vanilla]

"I have Courageous rented and will watch it tonight."

Did you?

A recommendation, I will try!

V

[HPoirot]

"I have Courageous rented and will watch it tonight."

Did you?

I did. I cried and felt very humbled. I don't know what to do with all this except what you talked about... focus on HIM not US. No more focus on me.

It was an uplifting movie... but I found the message more daunting. These men had the support and love of their wives. Like you said, though... my W won't come back if I'm not strong enough to lead my son through this.

Thank you for suggesting this movie sofaraway. Please know that I want to do what it takes if it means I can be a man my W would want to come back to and love. I can be like these men that actively lead their families everyday. I want to learn how and I know I can do it.

[HPoirot]

I said we're fine... we're almost home. She said ok... she would not call him. I said OK. I hung up.

We have to work on you understanding that the word should be he, not we. Quit trying to lump it together. Focus on your S12 and stop adding yourself in to stuff she didn't ask you about. Your response here makes this:

I let that slide right off me. No reaction from me.

Seem like dishonesty. If it had rolled right off of you your focus would be on your son and not yourself.

we have a lot to be grateful for... we love his mom... we'll be OK.

Dude, really???? This is beyond wrong. Quit incorporating your son and you into one. This should have been about him not you. He has a lot to be grateful for and his mom loves him and he will be ok.

HP, I am simply going to say that I understand all of this is difficult and you feel like you are hanging by a thread. But, you have to really look at your responsibilities as a parent here and stop making the situation about us and we with your S12. Understand that the psychological damage that this causes is tremendous. You will make him feel that if you and your WAW don't get back together that he had something to do with it. He's also 12 and not 4 so understand that he knows a lot more than you are giving him credit for.

Stop engaging her, she knows son is pissed, don't keep explaining it to her. Let her get that from him and not you. I can promise you this, if you two divorce you will no longer be the buffer between yourself and your WAW. She will have a separate relationship with him that you need to stay out of.

I get it that you feel like if you act like your a family maybe she will want that and come back, but that doesn't work. What that does is increase her guilt and anger and make her feel like it is not recoverable. Be independent, be strong for your son, and be ok no matter the outcome. This is what will show her that recovery is possible. Being a man and father whether she is there or not is what will sell you as a partner in marriage.

Your job first and foremost is S12, please remember that and please stop engaging the we/us behaviors. I promise you it leads down a road that you will not like the results of. For you, or for S12, the road you are taking sets both of you up to be let down and angry. Focus on what you can control not on what you cannot.

I am not sure if you understand what a "Circle of influence" is but you should look it up. Make a list of what exists within that circle for you and stick to that. Stay away from things that do not fall within your ability to control or influence.


Ian

Thank you for this post too sofaraway. I really appreciate what you're saying about my we/us behaviors with S12 and I'm very glad you mentioned this.

I did think it was best for him to hear me talk about US... like he and I are a team getting through this. And yes I thought it was right to let W know what S12 told me b/c I felt she was ignoring this by her words and actions.

I understand you're saying I'm wrong b/c S12 will feel responsible for what's happening by me saying "WE will be fine" instead of "YOU will be fine." He should know I'm taking care of him and he has no responsibility to take care of me or us or anything else.

And I understand I must be careful not to guilt or blame W about any of this. I have to just be strong and lead my family through this.

I admit I'm not entirely clear on this b/c of the anger I have harbored. I know to trreat W with politeness. On top of that, I will take care of S12 issues when he comes to me with them. I will not encourage him to talk with his mom... just let him do it as he feels to.

I'm getting this and S12 is the most important person here.

Thank you again for correcting my actions.

[HPoirot]

If guilt were an effective tool, she'd by home by now.

Usually, (no, not "ALWAYS" - but way more often than not)

Guilt converts into anger or blame at the person "causing" the guilt, which would be you.

Even when a WAS is angry at themselves, that does not equate with a return to the spouse. They may believe the combination of you and them is the problem.

OR they may feel yes, THEY "blew it and there's no coming back from that now"...so they don't even bother trying.

AND OR they tell themselves,

"he'll make me climb Mt Everest to come back and then he'll throw me off!" B/c they either don't want to have to humble themselves anyhow,

and or, they really do believe it's a pointless endeavor b/c in the end, you won't be happy anyhow, and neither will they. If no changes are demonstrated in the home life, the marriage they left, then why on earth would they return, regardless of OM/OW?

No WAS returns to a marriage they left, ever.......unless they come to believe

the marriage can be different/better than before.

Ian is spot on when he says that the more you make these situations hard for her, the harder it would be for her to return. Some of your behaviors are doing the opposite of what seems to be your goal.

Punishing her does nothing for YOU, except some small (and that's the word; "small") victory of the moment.

Some folks don't understand what my DB coach meant, when she said to

"Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth."


That ^^ has never meant, "become a doormat". Do not misinterpret it.

In your situation, making every single problem your son has, hers, or every problem he has, yours, or "ours", isn't fair to anyone,

and it isn't accurate and it most certainly does not help anyone or anything to change.

Get back to some DB basics.

GAL - helps you to Detach, which you must do soon...

and a part of that detachment is to separate yourself from HIM and your wife.

Detachment is key to healing and healing is key to having some form of relationship with your wife, whatever that ends up being.

Yes, you two should be able to discuss your son as adults with his best interests at heart. When you start believing that she wants that, even if she's not married to you, that will help all parties.

Right now, that feels like a "reward" to her, in your eyes. I don't agree, but that's not relevant.

And that's -again-you making her relationship with your son, about how YOU feel. I hope that changes very very soon.

At some point you two will need to communicate much better than you do now.

That's on you, b/c you are the one who can't handle it at this point. Do you see that?

NO, I'm not referring to when she spews; of course that must stop then & there.

I'm talking about when she's "normal" or kind to you, & you can't handle that either.

So that will need to change for you two to begin -- whatever you begin...

which is not going to happen today.


So, what DB basic can you do, today?

Hello 25. OK yes on GAL. I went shopping today which is a 180 for me. I got a very nice dress shirt. The first part of my new wardrobe goal. Next is new dress shoes and a suit.

On guilting W... if she asks me how S12 is... I say fine b/c I'm making sure he's fine by telling him he's going to be fine and then supporting him in that way.

So I'm giving W nothing more to worry about. I or anything to do with me should be the least of any worry she has is what you and sofaraway are saying. When she calls me, she should hang up the phone thinking... "HP has it handled thank God" or "It sure was nice to talk to HP" or something like that.

I'm killing her with kindness then.

...

Tonight... she texted me pictures she took of S12 in NYC with little funny captions. I have not accepted her FB friend request so she took the extra step to text them to me.

I replied ... "Thank you W. Glad you guys are having a good time"

When I tried to call S12, she texted back... "He's asleep."

I said "OK."

She texted ... "Good night HP."

I texted ... "Good night."

So I'm keeping up politeness.

And I just keep going like this. No pursuit. No R talks. No anger. Nothing but niceness. I have everything taken care of. No guilt. No stress from me.

I am a humble, nice to deal with, co-worker.

OK then I will do that.

On to more GAL.

[LoveMyW]

It seems as though tonights text exchange was near textbook HP.. Good stuff!!.. Keep it up!!..

[HPoirot]

Hey LoveMyW. Thank you for your support.

You know... I'm tired of the "don't reply to her texts too soon" thing. Timing texts makes me think too much of her. If she sends a text that needs answering... I answer as briefly and as soon as possible as other have suggested I do. Like I would to a co-worker I don't know well. If it's something nasty or personal... I don't respond at all.

I've been answering her phone calls since Wednesday b/c she said she appreciated a talk I initiated then and she likes to talk. But honestly... she's pushing it with the amount of phone calls again. That's how I'm feeling right now. I want to go 4 weeks with no R talk and only seeing her at our son's basketball games.

I saw your W also says you're childish b/c you don't return texts. And then you find out she wanted to ask you about something minor. Same here. I'm seriously tempted to get a GF and just block her phone calls!

Good luck to you.

[HeavyD]

Blocking her phone calls might not be a bad idea. You still need a method of communication though - land line?

Anything to block cell phone and texts would be a blessing.

[LoveMyW]

Hey LoveMyW. Thank you for your support.

You know... I'm tired of the "don't reply to her texts too soon" thing. Timing texts makes me think too much of her. If she sends a text that needs answering... I answer as briefly and as soon as possible as other have suggested I do. Like I would to a co-worker I don't know well. If it's something nasty or personal... I don't respond at all.

I've been answering her phone calls since Wednesday b/c she said she appreciated a talk I initiated then and she likes to talk. But honestly... she's pushing it with the amount of phone calls again. That's how I'm feeling right now. I want to go 4 weeks with no R talk and only seeing her at our son's basketball games.

I saw your W also says you're childish b/c you don't return texts. And then you find out she wanted to ask you about something minor. Same here. I'm seriously tempted to get a GF and just block her phone calls!

Good luck to you.

I think the whole not replying too soon thing can be a bit that way, but I must admit that it has helped me to NOT think about her as much.. I know that my W has texts set up to get a notification when a sent text is open so I just won't read it until I'M ready.. This means seeing any possible spew or anything is done when I am ready.. The way I see it, if it's a true emergency then my phone would be blowing up with calls and if I wasn't answering them then a family member from either side would get a hold of me..

The other side of that option to not answer straight away to unimportant stuff is that is gives off an aura that you are not sitting by the phone and are out GAL'ing even when you aren't.. It shows the whole "moving on" aspect which in turn helps detachment..

With the chatting, I think we can recognise together that interaction between us and our respective W's is there, which is a big thing.. It may not be perfect all the time but the lines are open.. We have all seen sitch's here where an LBS has absolutely no contact with WAS etc..

Yes, that came out today from my W that it was childish.. Just take that comment in and have it leave as validation.. I've decided that comments like that won't roll off me like water off a ducks back.. That's my choice though as I would rather act like a tree.. Take in the bad/spew/insults and return them as a positive experience.. I'm not saying I wallow in what is said, and if anything that's far from the truth..

Part of my reason behind that is the temper that I showed throughout my R/M.. In not a bad, violent or abusive person by any stretch of the imagination, but I was also no angel.. We had your average arguments, but I'm the first to admit that I occasionally got a little too riled up which got the voice up etc..

This was part of her WAW leavers guide script but something I could honestly agree with (even she has mentioned that she blew it out of proportion).. This is one of my 180's for life now..

[sandi2]

I see Sandi and 25 as in the same place with different views. Firm on boundary infringements and warm on interactions. Cut short the spew and arguments, reward the positives.

Thanks Vanilla, I think we do agree. We are giving VP's from both sides of the fence.
I especially agree with how 25 yrs stated the below post.

If guilt were an effective tool, she'd by home by now.

Usually, (no, not "ALWAYS" - but way more often than not)

Guilt converts into anger or blame at the person "causing" the guilt, which would be you.

Even when a WAS is angry at themselves, that does not equate with a return to the spouse. They may believe the combination of you and them is the problem.

OR they may feel yes, THEY "blew it and there's no coming back from that now"...so they don't even bother trying.

AND OR they tell themselves,

"he'll make me climb Mt Everest to come back and then he'll throw me off!" B/c they either don't want to have to humble themselves anyhow,

and or, they really do believe it's a pointless endeavor b/c in the end, you won't be happy anyhow, and neither will they. If no changes are demonstrated in the home life, the marriage they left, then why on earth would they return, regardless of OM/OW?

No WAS returns to a marriage they left, ever.......unless they come to believe

the marriage can be different/better than before.

Ian is spot on when he says that the more you make these situations hard for her, the harder it would be for her to return. Some of your behaviors are doing the opposite of what seems to be your goal.

Punishing her does nothing for YOU, except some small (and that's the word; "small") victory of the moment.

Some folks don't understand what my DB coach meant, when she said to

"Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth."


That ^^ has never meant, "become a doormat". Do not misinterpret it.

In your situation, making every single problem your son has, hers, or every problem he has, yours, or "ours", isn't fair to anyone,

and it isn't accurate and it most certainly does not help anyone or anything to change.

Get back to some DB basics.

GAL - helps you to Detach, which you must do soon...

and a part of that detachment is to separate yourself from HIM and your wife.

Detachment is key to healing and healing is key to having some form of relationship with your wife, whatever that ends up being.

Yes, you two should be able to discuss your son as adults with his best interests at heart. When you start believing that she wants that, even if she's not married to you, that will help all parties.

Right now, that feels like a "reward" to her, in your eyes. I don't agree, but that's not relevant.

And that's -again-you making her relationship with your son, about how YOU feel. I hope that changes very very soon.

At some point you two will need to communicate much better than you do now.

That's on you, b/c you are the one who can't handle it at this point. Do you see that?

NO, I'm not referring to when she spews; of course that must stop then & there.

I'm talking about when she's "normal" or kind to you, & you can't handle that either.

So that will need to change for you two to begin -- whatever you begin...

which is not going to happen today.


So, what DB basic can you do, today?

HP, think of yourself as being a ship. Your WAW is the ocean water. The ship has a destination and must stay the course to get there. Now the water is unpredictable. Sometimes it is quite and things run smoother. But most times, the water is making waves and splashing up against the ship, sometimes violently, and trying to get over into the ship. The water can get very rough when storms comes, and even try to turn the ship around, turn it over, or and wreck it with giant waves, and suck in down into the depths of its darkness. However, the ship has been built well and has the best instruments and skill to navigate through the storms. It steadily continues on course to its destination, and will not give up by the splashing sounds of the water. It comes along with the ride to the other side.

There is a little passenger along on this trip, who is not enjoying the ride. He did not ask for it and did not want to travel this way. He gets very scared when the ship is tossed around. It takes both the ship and the water to get this little passenger safely ashore.

Rely upon your instruments (DB skills) to keep you on course. Know that you will weather the storms, and they eventually die down. It is the water (your WAW) that is splashing around, looking angry & scarey, going in up & down -- back & forth extremes but getting nowhere. Do not let the storms suck you down into the depths of destruction. You are strong and can ride out the waves and get there.

Keep the ship in good condition and the instruments in check.