Strong EA after 2 yrs M #2 - The journey begins

[DaddyLongShanks]

Thank you DaddyLongShanks.
I signed up for the gym already. But I got thrown off my plans with the new developments. I really hit the ground, but need to pull myself up again.

I see the positve. Without all this happening I wouldn't be/become the person I am and want to be. I just have to stay true to myself.

Thanks Toots
Yeah I don't want to tell them anything knowing I just want to use them for my purpose. I'm sure she will lie to them first and she will think time will heal everything, for me, for them, for her. Which is kind of true but a cowardly approach.
Looking at her I also learned a lot of things that I do NOT want to do wrong in my future..with whoever.
Dating you are right. I can't go there. My gut tells me it's wrong. Although at some point a man will suffer. I have a lot of 'drive' need to resist and stay strong and life up to my values.

Another thing I want to do is talk to her Priest at Church, that she hasn't been to in a long time. Just to see what they say, completely open minded. Maybe they also recommend a good counselor. And I want to get in touch with my believes and God. I still have to confess a lot.

Stop looking at her stuff for I'd say 3 months. Make it all about you. Also if you salsa merengue, etc it will be a good way to restore some of your old self without actually cheating on her. It will make you feel desired, masculine, in control and like a man...

When you build up your strength you can look at her shenanigans like a childish banter, like a 13 year old misbehaving and you know everything that they are doing.

[25yearsmlc]

I never mentioned and I don't know if it's televant but I completely screwed my last girlfriend over. I was with her five years and had an affair the last year and slept with other women. I was a very bad man and completely off path.

The love for my wife put me back on track. She saved me. And she still does....

It may be relevant. Why did you cheat on her, and why so much? I mean, if it had only happened once in some unique situation, it MIGHT be more understandable.

But it sounds more like it was a repeated choice you made, a pattern.

What did you tell yourself then, while you were cheating? How'd you justify it?

How'd your wife "Save" you? How can she "Still" save you? From what?

If you could be forgiven, can she?

Finally and maybe most importantly, What, if anything, did you learn about yourself?

[Complex]

Thanks for your honest response 25yearsmic. I needed to hear that.
I got all the good intentions but I don't seem to trust myself.
You didn't fully understand me tho. I'm just struggling. But I will not go against my own values anymore. I'm fighting with myself.
Plus I read a lot about the advices to "make WAW jealous", get confidence, be mysterious, even date.
It's agains my morale, and anyway wouldn't make any difference. It would only completely confirm her decision and make her feel very good about everything.

The thing is: why are we all here? For ourselves? For W? For what? Humans are selfish, most of the things we do are for ourselves.
True love is non-selfish.
So each of us should at one point ask ourselves WHY we are here.

Regarding the parents thanks for the advice.
If they ask me ya I'll tell them the truth and some of my concerns but I want to do it with love. I want to be strong. I want them to think the same way of me than my wife. That I care, that I love and that I forgive.

[Complex]

I never mentioned and I don't know if it's televant but I completely screwed my last girlfriend over. I was with her five years and had an affair the last year and slept with other women. I was a very bad man and completely off path.

The love for my wife put me back on track. She saved me. And she still does....

It may be relevant. Why did you cheat on her, and why so much? I mean, if it had only happened once in some unique situation, it MIGHT be more understandable.

But it sounds more like it was a repeated choice you made, a pattern.

What did you tell yourself then, while you were cheating? How'd you justify it?

How'd your wife "Save" you? How can she "Still" save you? From what?

If you could be forgiven, can she?

Finally and maybe most importantly, What, if anything, did you learn about yourself?

I basically wanted to quit the relationship with my ex. But I was a coward and instead telling her I cheated.
What's happening to me now is similar to what I did to someone else. And I probably deserve it. Things come back to you.

My wife opened my heart for love and trust again. And I wanted to do things right this time. The commitment felt awesome. I wanted to save myself from my life I was unhappy with. I felt like the luckiest man in the whole wide world. I wanted to live values, have a partner, a family.
But I gotta say we developed our love in the beginning too. For me though it was love at first sight. I've never seen a prettier smile in my life yet.
She always tells me we found what we needed and wanted in that moment and that our love was only romantic. There's truth in it.
But I feel like I still wanna do things right and love her. I fell in love with her. Romantically. Then we failed to transit after the honeymoon phase. Communication had leaks. That's where all my regrets are coming from too.

Ha, I hear myself talking like I'm at the therapist already
I clearly think to much and overthink things. Life should be fun.

[Complex]

Did I actually ever mention that OM at work is a doctor? W a nurse.
He's married to his work and is playing hard to get it seems like. Doesn't want a work based R. Likes her a lot tho.
While she's adoring him trying to get every bit of attention from him possible. It's kind of one sided actually. (I know bc I snooped)

Kinda scripty. Doctor, successful. Me foreigner, live in the limbo, Mr. nice guy, , crying his ass off in front of W all the time.
Also why I'm mad at myself. I acted human, but I acted human WAY too long and pushed her out, confirming everything she said. Now I regret.
But all we can do is move on. It's taken its course.

[25yearsmlc]

"Life should be fun".

Really? Always? Most of the time? What if it's not? What if the marriage isn't fun? See, I believe that life is often difficult. There are obstacles to overcome, hurdles to leap, and many many trying times. This does NOT depress me.

I sometimes think learning to find the joy IN those^^ very times, the "fun" in everyday "ordinary" life, is part of the goal/solution. Virginia Wolfe wrote about that in her poems and novels. She'd write about flowers and the sky and relationships all in depth bc she was squeezing joy and meaning out of the LIFE she was living.

I think if we expect life to be "fun", in general, and we don't work our butts off to MAKE it that way, then we are setting ourselves and others up for bitter disappointment. Even if WE are fun and happy and GAL, someone we love will still get cancer and some won't win their battles. Some will have car accidents, lose loved ones, lose our jobs, face bankruptcy, not fit in, in the new city we moved to,
fail at something important to us....and most of that won't be fun at all.


I know that having children & raising them is, BY FAR , the hardest, unrelentingly demanding, best, most beautiful, most important, courageous selfless, exhausting thing I've ever done.

There are many apparent contradictions in this^^ statement, yet it's all true.

So, have you ever read "The Road Less Travelled" by M. Scott Peck, MD ??

I think you'd get a lot out of it b/c you are approaching a lot of this with a philosophical view, (which isn't wrong at all, just slightly unusual.)


The other standard DB book recommendations you may want, are --

"The Five Love Languages", by Chapman, "Co-dependent No More",

"After the Affair" and pretty much anything by Michelle Weiner-Davis, (the DB author).

((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

Did I actually ever mention that OM at work is a doctor? W a nurse.

No, but why does it matter, at all? They have medicine in common, or what?

Why is this^^ about them, (whom you have no control over) and not about you? Remember, you are all you control. So put your focus back to YOU and your work...

what are your 180s again? And the GAL? Sometimes it's good to get back to the basics of DBing...

1) changes YOU want to make in yourself;

2) GAL activities you want to explore;

3) 180s, (at least 2)

Can yo list some of your short term goals, towards the overall goals: self improvement and Reconciling?

What are they?


He's married to his work and is playing hard to get it seems like. Doesn't want a work based R. Likes her a lot tho.

I'm married to an MD. I could sit here and just agree with you but the fact is, you do NOT KNOW HIM. Why try to read HIS mind or heart? Even reading their texts (which will absolutely infuriate HER if she finds out) isn't going to give you a real picture of who HE is. And Complex, HE does not matter. Do Not focus on OM.

In most situations, including yours I think,

the affair is a symptom, Not a cause of your problems.

Seriously, why bother snooping now? It won't change your path, will it? If so, how? If not, then drop it.

You'll make yourself nuts thinking about how much money he earns and the prestige he gets, and you will become bitter and overlook or gloss over the things You need/want to work on and instead it'll be all about him and his flaws or greatness and blah blah blah.

SOoooo, Back to WHO matters most here, i.e. you and you new improved self...




While she's adoring him trying to get every bit of attention from him possible. It's kind of one sided actually. (I know bc I snooped)


SIGH...why snoop about this??
You already knew she was having an affair. Does it change one bit of YOUR approach?

Does it honestly make you feel, down deep, any better? How?

Kinda scripty. Doctor, successful. Me foreigner, live in the limbo, Mr. nice guy, , crying his ass off in front of W all the time.


Oh man Complex, come on, is that really how you see this scenario playing out?

All so very simple. Just you being a "nice guy" with the ONLY reason there's any limbo or poverty with you, is b/c you are a "foreigner"?? Is that truly what you want to say now?

Hey come on, If you come here to say that You have no flaws to work on, other than being "Nice", as if "everything was great UNTIL OM came along"...then you will feel powerless to change things.

You seem to be saying that showing your emotions was the reason she had the affair. Is that what you mean to say?

I don't agree. You said you only showed those emotions after the affair was discovered, right? So how is that related to her choice to have the affair, at all?

Never mind all this, b/c What matters is what were you like before the affair AND how will you act, from this day forward?

Oh, one thing....one thing I can say for doctors. At least in this country, they all work their butts off to become MD's. That's just a fact. For years they earn little or nothing.

When they finally complete their journey, after years of training and residency, and they become staff or attending physicians, then they earn better incomes. But by the hour, it's not great pay. They work LONG hours. They deserve their high incomes.

Okay I'll stop feeling a bit testy about that. I guess a part of me vigorously defends MDs b/c thats what I do; it's my profession, (i.e. I defend hospitals, & doctors/nurses who are sued.)

Also why I'm mad at myself. I acted human, but I acted human WAY too long and pushed her out, confirming everything she said. Now I regret.
But all we can do is move on. It's taken its course.

Well, maybe it's a language barrier, but what are you saying ^^here? I'm not clear.

So You think "acting human" is bad? And you think that's the "flaw" you want to work on? Not sure I can help with that b/c I am a human too! Last I looked, I was.

Cutting to the chase... What do you feel were YOUR mistakes or contributions to the problems?
B/c THAT and the DB basics ought to be your focus now.

Work on those. GAL big time. You must detach and become the better choice.

If your w once loved you deeply, if you had a great connection, then in time those memories can resurface if you don't prevent or hinder that from happening.

FYI, The affairs doctors & nurses have, tend to move faster than others.

They don't continue indefinitely b/c there's too much going on at work, and too much stress to keep that up and their reputations do matter. So they make a choice relatively early, compared to other affairs.

You want to look your best as a husband and catch, for when she looks your way.

Get ready for that. GAL, Detach, become a man only a fool would leave.

[Complex]

25yearsmic. I love you!

You are an incredibly rational, straight forward, wise and kind person.
I want to thank you for your last post. It made me cry.

I will read it again later when I have more time and give everything a deeper thought.


Quick question that came on my mind earlier, how should I react to mutual friends and family? No one knows yet, but I haven't seen them since I'm back from Germany. We will get invited very soon. There are usually a LOT of family obligations. It'll sink through.
How should I deal with this? Withdraw (don't really want to, I love them too)? Let W give the tone? Sit down and talk to her how we deal with family? Make my own decisions? Suggestions?
I do NOT want her to think I'll use family against her, which I won't. But she will be mistrusting me.

[DaddyLongShanks]

Thanks for your honest response 25yearsmic. I needed to hear that.
I got all the good intentions but I don't seem to trust myself.
You didn't fully understand me tho. I'm just struggling. But I will not go against my own values anymore. I'm fighting with myself.
Plus I read a lot about the advices to "make WAW jealous", get confidence, be mysterious, even date.
It's agains my morale, and anyway wouldn't make any difference. It would only completely confirm her decision and make her feel very good about everything.

The thing is: why are we all here? For ourselves? For W? For what? Humans are selfish, most of the things we do are for ourselves.
True love is non-selfish.
So each of us should at one point ask ourselves WHY we are here.

Regarding the parents thanks for the advice.
If they ask me ya I'll tell them the truth and some of my concerns but I want to do it with love. I want to be strong. I want them to think the same way of me than my wife. That I care, that I love and that I forgive.

Boy. You are a sitting duck. Your wife is not in your love game. Shes feasting on what shes put over you. Were not asking you to make her jealous. Were asking you to respect human psychology and accept maybe you dont know it all.

[Complex]

The way things went the last few days also caused sth bad. With the snooping etc. I actually might have done the final push for her to be out.
One of her last texts was "things are becoming very real now".
Since then she went dark on me.
Is that a good thing or no? It feels horrible to me bc even with what was going on she seemed to care about me and texted me on a daily basis.
Is that script how things just usually go down?

Sure I can also use it to focus on myself but it feels like I lost my power over the situation - which I probably never did.
But it's just like "now she's completely gone and I helped her"