T0324 continued part 4

[Train]

I hear you, cat.

I agree we should always look at ourselves first in a relationship and own what's ours. My post was actually more about my own personal experience - as it related to my personality - especially when I was here the first time in 2005. In other words, I actually wasn't referring to me in a relationship; I was referring to me on these boards. I can only speak for myself. But sometimes, I took the "look inside" thing a little too far and ended up accepting *more blame than I should have* for things that weren't on me *while my H was wayward* and I was here. The blame I actually deserved for things I did (or didn't do) while we were still M was plenty. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough in my post. (Again, a possible downside to my rambling ... )

Re: trust but verify:

Another personal experience (because I can only use that in anything I offer to others who are suffering here or in the real world) ...

My H - after returning to our M after his A last year - voluntarily left his cell phone by my side of the bed each night for the first few months he was back home, and he provided me a list of all his usernames and passwords. This is now my own personal benchmark/standard for how open a formerly-wayward spouse should be when returning home after an A.

With H being that open, my frantic desire to "verify" faded very quickly. He did his part. And then I did mine: I stopped snooping. (Being a cynic, I also realized that there are ALWAYS ways he can have another A, which made my efforts to "trust ... but verify" feel really futile. I also realized that nothing good came of me finding emails and texts that were on his phone from the days when he was wayward. I wanted to become "unstuck" and move forward, and I couldn't do that as long as I was snooping.) But it was my H who led the way on that by being so willing to be open and answer all my questions, even the ones I had after "snooping." He even offered to go through his phone and emails *together*.

HOWEVER, T's sitch - in the short time her H has been home - was vastly different. He started pulling away from her, making her (naturally) want to find out what was going on with him. He stopped talking to her, making her suspect the worst and making her FURTHER curious to find out what was going on. She naturally felt she *needed* to verify at that point. (And he'd only been home a couple-to-a-few months if I'm remembering correctly!) She wants to trust but verify and discovers he's sleeping with his phone in his pocket. And then he points a blaming finger at *T* in the MC session???

Yeah. I'll stand by my original post on that one.

Trust but verify is temporary; the former-WAS controls a lot of just how temporary that will be by being lovingly open, honest and transparent. T was nowhere *near* "warden"-status at that point, IMO.

[Train]

Have FUN with your mom and boys tonight, T!!!!

I was thinking about this when I was on errands a little while ago: You are doing a *phenomenal* job ... FAR better than I'm sure I would be doing in your shoes right now. Pat yourself on the back for that. And drink one for me.

[T384]

for the record I have not gone through his phone since he's been in the house. I recently went on his FB but have not snooped through the phone. I TRIED to after he started sleeping with it in his pocket but obviously I couldnt get it out of his pocket.

Am I wasting my time with this man? Is this a telling sign that we are already back to this just a few months after he's home?

[Train]

No, T. I don't think so. IMO, it's more a sign that things weren't done "right" when you let him back in the house. It moved too quickly, and he wasn't ready for the heavy-lifting that piecing requires. (I do think there might be some unresolved issues with how you two communicate specifically about finances and needs, but I think we've covered that in spades and that's what your professional MC is for.)

I didn't do it right in 2006. My crap came back to haunt me in 2014.

Try to look at this as an opportunity to get it right. Though I know that's impossible right now ...

[Jack_Three_Beans]

TO324,

I am new to your sitch, 854 posts is too many for me to go through plus you already seem to have some great advice coming in at you.

Let me say that when my wife came back I made it clear that I would be checking up on her. She would have to accept this as part of the deal or no go. I wasn't the one who betrayed trust I was the one who needed to trust her again. so to that end she KNEW I would be looking at her phone, and I wasn't even going to be sneaky about it.

Reconciliation is great...but without boundaries and establishing some groundwork for it? Relaying on it just working out after a betrayal...is not the best idea.

You husband should be trying to win your trust back, he lost it, he should want you to fix it...and it takes time. Trust is one of the hardest thing to regain. IF he is unwilling to let you check up on him, there is a problem...conversely if he is willing to let you check up on him it is your job over time to stop looking as long as he keeps showing you there isno reason to doubt him.

It takes some time. AND a very in depth conversation about what will be happening.

[Train]

IF he is unwilling to let you check up on him, there is a problem...conversely if he is willing to let you check up on him it is your job over time to stop looking as long as he keeps showing you there isno reason to doubt him.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES! Gawd, why can't I wrap up my 6 freakin' paragraphs of thoughts in one digestible sentence like that? I need an editor. Hallelujah, JTB! Thank you!!!

[T384]

Thank you everyone ...

Things weren't done right and then when I started to question his behavior he pulled away even more.

I will be really looking towards everyone and my MC for how to move forward IF H decides he wants to work on our M

Right now it's so confusing for me because he doesn't really talk to me but he is sleeping next to me and has had his phone on the night stand since the MC told him to.

We haven't really talked since MC. Our MC wanted us to talk that night or yesterday about the ex boss/job situation. I asked H after Mc and he was tired and I haven't brought it up since.

I guess I just am wondering that he's telling me he loves me and sleeping next to me but not doing anything else but those motions.

I will continue to be nice, happy and busy.

Jack - my biggest issue is that he is making me feel like the bad guy. He should still be trying to earn my trust but instead its my fault.

I've also thought about the kissing him when I get home. I know I should be doing nothing but the C asked him to leave the phone out and sleep next to me and he's doing it. He's also kissed me when he gets home. So maybe I should kiss him when I get home from work next week. It would be a 180 and I know it's something he wants
Me to do enough to bring it up in MC. However it goes against do nothing

[Jack_Three_Beans]

TO,

Jack - my biggest issue is that he is making me feel like the bad guy. He should still be trying to earn my trust but instead its my fault.

Are you the bad guy?

I seriously doubt it. Did you have faults that contributed to the bad marriage, I'd bet money on it. BUT...

He is the guy who had an affair and he is making you out to be the bad guy...

As a guy, and not always a nice guy, that is some shady stuff, and it would worry me.

Are you able to talk with him about this and let him know how you feel, that you are not the bad guy and that crap needs to stop.

You every hear the best defense is a good offense? Making you the bad guy puts you off your feet...it destabilizes you, it unbalances you. Its a crappy trick, one that he needs to stop.

How he stops is really up to you on how you approach it. I will say that allowing it to continue might not be in your best interests.

As long as you can bear the results change is good if you can no longer handle the status quo.

Do things need to change right now?

And now I will leave you to your regular posters.

[T384]

Thanks JTB

Always appreciative of the vets around here - and everyone else too. No I am not the bad guy. I need to stop letting him make me feel that way. I would love things to change right now but they don't Have to. I have been through so much already what's a couple more months

I fully expect some major 2x4s for my behavior tonight. However, my mom the boys and I had a wonderful time at dinner and late night bowling. Then my mom took the boys to stay the night with her. H actually showed up at bowling. I was surprised.

Before my mom got out here I had to meet H at the bank to deposit some money. He forgot to make his portion of the house payment which resulted in me driving up to the bank at 745 (transactions post if made by 8 that day) to make sure the money got in for the house payment (we have never been late in 10years). So needless to say I was pretty frustrated. Well he got out to meet me and I after greeting him with a hello mustered up saying ---- do you even want to be in this marriage? I cannot and will not live like this ... I know you are going through a lot but so am I. I just can't keep doing this any longer.

He said he does want to be in this marriage but he's depressed. Hes never been this broke in his life and that's why he made the appointment for IC Monday to get help in dealing with issues but not alienating me. I told him I can't be shut out of his life anymore. I Want to help him but I don't know how to and that I hope he can figure it out. I didn't cry, I didn't yell. I was calm cool and collected. He was mostly full of I'm stressed and depressed answers.

Anyway we both came home and luckily my mom was already there. H staged home to shower and we left. He ended up meeting us at my moms. I got a kiss hello, during bowling, goodbye. I know it's trivial but this is a big improvement from even yesterday.

Anyway. I know I will get 2x4s but it was the best way I could have a conversation. Now who knows what tomorrow will bring but going to bed tonight I feel better than I have in weeks.

Thank you all

[sandi2]

No 2x4 from me. As I have said before, he is playing the victim. I think it's time to call him out on his bad behavior/treatment toward you.

How long can he use the same old excuses of being depressed and stressed? So what? Why take it out on you? So he's broke. Is he blaming you for it? He wants to blame you for the problems in his life......and for being depressed (unhappy).

I do a have a suggestion. Maybe b/c he sounds like a sulking little boy and you are the stronger one who is telling him you want to "help" him. IDK, but to me, it verbally positions him as the weaker person in this R. Even though he really is, I think it might be best to stop saying you want to help him.

He needs to grow up and act like a responsible partner in this MR. If he is going to be your partner, your "other half", he needs to get over himself and start showing you the respect you deserve and his accountability you need to feel secure. As the WAH, he owes it to you. Crawling into his shell and refusing to give decent answers to valid questions is not acceptable in a M. You aren't even sure where he is working! And he doesn't want to talk about it? That's not acceptable. He would not accept any of the b.s. he's been doing if it were you dishing it out to him. But he knows from the previous time that he can act badly and you will try to soften his bed and make life easier for him. All he has to do is make you feel like it's your fault that he has to act this way.

So don't offer to help him. However, you can tell him that you probably would be willing to work together if you knew what you were dealing with. Piecing a marriage cannot include secrets, unaccounted whereabouts, refusal to answer questions, protecting cell phones, etc. It must have complete honesty, which calls for the WAS to be a completely open book to the LBS. Without it, how can there be trust and security?

So yeah, I say call him out when he gives you flippant answers or tries to make it sound like he is a victim to a situation he caused and now he's an unhappy boy. (But don't use those words for your script. )

Listen, I know it is hard for him. Be understanding and patient. Be cooperative and willing to work with him, but do not accept half truths, cover-ups, unwillingness of disclosure, cold behavior.......and any other red flags that start waving around. You can see how quickly he changed and could easily walk away and decide to chunk everything again.

Has the counselor explained to him how it is your H's job to give you security in the M? That it's his job to establish trust?