Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6

[25yearsmlc]

--
I think whatever you decide to do about the contacting--or NC, you need to be consistent. When you respond part of the time then get angry and refuse to answer, that's not good. It is not giving her a clear picture of you.
- Try your best to get your focus off of W's thoughts and actions, and focus on those two priorities.

YES^^^^

Hello Sandi. Thank you so much for this post. You are right that I have not at all been consistent. In the last 24 hours I've gone from extreme NC all the way to "listening like a lover." Time for me to choose...


Well, there are 2 separate pieces to this^^. ONE piece is what works for YOU, right now. Meaning, as long as you are as Undetached as you are, you have to have minimal contact (that's on you, btw)

And second, what works for THE R....ie what seems to bring you close to your goal?

So let's see if we can find any clues...

Last night S12 had basketball practice. W did not show up to talk as I said I would not.

After practice, I told S12 that he would spend tomorrow night with W as scheduled. He did not like that and wanted to talk to his mom. He called. She did not answer.

The entire drive home he tried to call but no answer. This was stressing him out. I talked to him to calm him. Said she was probably at work. Told him to leave a message and send a text which he did. Even so, by the time we got to the condo he was upset. I was irritated too.


Why do you get so mad when HE can't reach her BUT you make it impossible, sometimes, for her to reach YOU? I mean, doesn't it go both ways?

Yes, it's her son but isn't she "allowed" to be busy or in a shower when he calls without notice? It's not ALL about an OM, or is it?

Even so, he got in the shower and was soon happy and singing. I texted W... "S12 has been trying to reach you."
--
When S12 got out of the shower, he call W. He started to talk angrily and
disrespectfully and I corrected him.


good^^^and you do this, btw, NOT b/c you are a good husband but b/c you are a good FATHER. This advice is for your son, not your w. Do you see?

Even so, he showed his mom he was upset and said "Why aren't you here? Just solve your problem and come live with us!"
W asked to talk with me. She was upset. Saying she was looking at an apartment to help S12. That he didn't like to stay at aunt's house. Asked me again to take him most nights. She would drive him to school. She was very agitated.

I let my irritation show about her not answering. Told her I didn't want to here her excuses.
When she angrily said S12 only called her 2 times when he had been trying for 30 minutes... I got angry.
It turned into a very angry R talk.

to ME, this^^ is an example of something NOT working.
--
---
So we're in a bad bad place. I don't feel it's the right place.

I'm remembering 25 and Chuck talking about "listening like a lover." I try to think of W. I know from her email that she is lashing out scared like her IC told her. Remember all the comments how she is trying to be a good mom. Remember all the 2x4's about being a good dad and being polite. - I call her.
- She starts to talk about him. I can hear she is fighting not to cry. I ask her to tell me what's wrong. She says nothing. She says she's not feeling great and starts to cry.

I listen. I ask her about her work day. She opens up and tells me all about it.


I listen and ask her questions about what she says. She keeps talking. Talks for 20 minutes about her work and plans for business. --- She keeps saying thank you for asking. She keeps crying a little.

She asks me about my work. I tell her about my project.

She thanks me for talking with her. How much she appreciates it. How shocked she is that I called..
She offers to pick up some groceries for us on the way to drop S12 off here. I tell her to get S12's breakfast food.

She says if I want anything else to text her. I say bye and hung up. A little later, I text her food that she would know is for me. She replies... "OK!"

S12 just called me. Says he and W are going to stop for burritos. Asks if W can get me one. I say sure.

So complete inconsistency. I don't know what works.


Seriously? ?

You "don't know what works"??? TO ME -- THIS^^^ worked!

In large part b/c you were NOT attaching your expectations to it,

you were not so invested in her reaction; You were simply being YOU being compassionate. That is the beginning of healthy detachment.

AT least from where I sit.
=
I just showed I can be friendly when we talk like we used to. When I show interest in S12 and her day. It fits what DB Coach Chuck and 25 tell me about empathy. My W wants acceptance and to be listened to. She knows what she did and is doing is horrible but she says she can't let go.

So I can kill her with kindness. This would be a major 180 for me to keep going this way. Somehow distant and friendly. Leave my ego someplace else and be humble about my part in all this. Sit with her at a table and have lunch. Risk feeling like a doormat.

How are you "risking feeling like a doormat"? Let me reword that. DON'T RISK IT.

You can be polite and show compassion without being a doormat. To think otherwise means you cannot be loving and detached. And That's not true.

[Old Dog]

Just read through this thread HP and wow! it's all action isn't it.

My coach is also Chuck. Speak to him about managing your anger when communicating with your WAW. He'll have some tips for you. This is a 180 you can work on for sure.

[HPoirot]

--
I think whatever you decide to do about the contacting--or NC, you need to be consistent. When you respond part of the time then get angry and refuse to answer, that's not good. It is not giving her a clear picture of you.
- Try your best to get your focus off of W's thoughts and actions, and focus on those two priorities.

YES^^^^

Hello Sandi. Thank you so much for this post. You are right that I have not at all been consistent. In the last 24 hours I've gone from extreme NC all the way to "listening like a lover." Time for me to choose...


Well, there are 2 separate pieces to this^^. ONE piece is what works for YOU, right now. Meaning, as long as you are as Undetached as you are, you have to have minimal contact (that's on you, btw)

And second, what works for THE R....ie what seems to bring you close to your goal?

So let's see if we can find any clues...

Last night S12 had basketball practice. W did not show up to talk as I said I would not.

After practice, I told S12 that he would spend tomorrow night with W as scheduled. He did not like that and wanted to talk to his mom. He called. She did not answer.

The entire drive home he tried to call but no answer. This was stressing him out. I talked to him to calm him. Said she was probably at work. Told him to leave a message and send a text which he did. Even so, by the time we got to the condo he was upset. I was irritated too.


Why do you get so mad when HE can't reach her BUT you make it impossible, sometimes, for her to reach YOU? I mean, doesn't it go both ways?

Yes, it's her son but isn't she "allowed" to be busy or in a shower when he calls without notice? It's not ALL about an OM, or is it?

Even so, he got in the shower and was soon happy and singing. I texted W... "S12 has been trying to reach you."
--
When S12 got out of the shower, he call W. He started to talk angrily and
disrespectfully and I corrected him.


good^^^and you do this, btw, NOT b/c you are a good husband but b/c you are a good FATHER. This advice is for your son, not your w. Do you see?

Even so, he showed his mom he was upset and said "Why aren't you here? Just solve your problem and come live with us!"
W asked to talk with me. She was upset. Saying she was looking at an apartment to help S12. That he didn't like to stay at aunt's house. Asked me again to take him most nights. She would drive him to school. She was very agitated.

I let my irritation show about her not answering. Told her I didn't want to here her excuses.
When she angrily said S12 only called her 2 times when he had been trying for 30 minutes... I got angry.
It turned into a very angry R talk.

to ME, this^^ is an example of something NOT working.
--
---
So we're in a bad bad place. I don't feel it's the right place.

I'm remembering 25 and Chuck talking about "listening like a lover." I try to think of W. I know from her email that she is lashing out scared like her IC told her. Remember all the comments how she is trying to be a good mom. Remember all the 2x4's about being a good dad and being polite. - I call her.
- She starts to talk about him. I can hear she is fighting not to cry. I ask her to tell me what's wrong. She says nothing. She says she's not feeling great and starts to cry.

I listen. I ask her about her work day. She opens up and tells me all about it.


I listen and ask her questions about what she says. She keeps talking. Talks for 20 minutes about her work and plans for business. --- She keeps saying thank you for asking. She keeps crying a little.

She asks me about my work. I tell her about my project.

She thanks me for talking with her. How much she appreciates it. How shocked she is that I called..
She offers to pick up some groceries for us on the way to drop S12 off here. I tell her to get S12's breakfast food.

She says if I want anything else to text her. I say bye and hung up. A little later, I text her food that she would know is for me. She replies... "OK!"

S12 just called me. Says he and W are going to stop for burritos. Asks if W can get me one. I say sure.

So complete inconsistency. I don't know what works.


Seriously? ?

You "don't know what works"??? TO ME -- THIS^^^ worked!

In large part b/c you were NOT attaching your expectations to it,

you were not so invested in her reaction; You were simply being YOU being compassionate. That is the beginning of healthy detachment.

AT least from where I sit.
=
I just showed I can be friendly when we talk like we used to. When I show interest in S12 and her day. It fits what DB Coach Chuck and 25 tell me about empathy. My W wants acceptance and to be listened to. She knows what she did and is doing is horrible but she says she can't let go.

So I can kill her with kindness. This would be a major 180 for me to keep going this way. Somehow distant and friendly. Leave my ego someplace else and be humble about my part in all this. Sit with her at a table and have lunch. Risk feeling like a doormat.

How are you "risking feeling like a doormat"? Let me reword that. DON'T RISK IT.

You can be polite and show compassion without being a doormat. To think otherwise means you cannot be loving and detached. And That's not true.

Starsky is right... I've posted as much in 3 months as others have posted in an entire year. And still I'm here.. feeling like I should be authentic and natural with W while part of me is screaming I'm a doormat if I do it.

The listening is the big 180 I did at the beginning when she was still in my bed and I thought OM was a voice on the phone. When I finally faced the truth... I felt like a dope for all the compassion and kindness I showed my W while she was lying and sneaking off to be with him.

But you're right it worked if works means...

* All around anger stays low.
* S12 is protected and supported
* I feel more peaceful
* I change into a better person
* W contacts me less
* W sees better me

So while I'm doing the more important and pleasurable GAL activities... W can just live on the periphery of my life and I can really move away from her.

I see now it's my ego that has kept me from being compassionate to my W. I have to get my ego out of the way to detach. Thank you 25 I'm getting it.

[bravo61]

Hp,
Just do it man. When she's nice you be warm. When she's a %°¢®€¥ you be warm. You can warmly say that you are not going to be treated poorly and hang up the phone. Can u imagine how confused she would be if you just ran up to her and said hi with a big smile on your face? What would that cost you? Your anger is burning you up man! You are giving her the power to drag u down the rabbit hole. Where does that leave your S? Yes this all [censored] but it is our reality. If you live in a house u hate are you gonna just moan about it ? No, you'll do things to make it as pleasant as possible. Trust me, I know bout the emotional swings but as with any feelings it is your decision whether or not they control you. If you let them control you, what is the real difference between you and W?

Praying for you!

[HPoirot]

Hey thanks bravo. I'm trying. I feel, though, that when I get comfortable and give my W an inch, she goes and takes a million miles.

We had that horrible screaming R talk Wednesday night about her falling into her A and not wanting to stop contacting him. The next day... I say I'm moving forward and do not want to hear from her. More ugliness. I make one phone call and ask about her day. She appreciated that and bought me groceries. Tonight I listened again to her talk about her problems at her aunt's house and I help by taking S12 tonight. She bought us dinner again tonight.

Now she texts me... "How are you? It was very nice to talk to you on Wednesday."

What?

We were screaming at each other on Wednesday. She was calling me an MoFo and a p*ssy and a coward on Wednesday. Maybe she forgot that. This new person she is certainly does forget the things she says.

Even more funny... a month ago when I said I knew about her PA and kicked her out the condo... she unfriended me on FB. Now tonight she texts... "Sorry I unfriended you on FB. I sent you a friend request. Will you accept it?"

Nice.

So, what would it cost me? I'm thinking it would cost me her treating me like we're buddies minutes after all the pain and destruction and cursing and screaming. That's not self-respect.

I listen very closely to what 25 says about empathy and what Sandi says about the reasons WAW show disrespect. Trying to find the line between those two places. She just seems to keep changing the line.

Off to the basketball game then. Good luck to you Bravo.

[bravo61]

no hp,
that's her not respecting you. but you are moving on remember? i personally think it would take a lot more self respect to not be sucked into the drama. just the other day, my XW was really pretty warm to me and i even said "hey it was good to see you" and she responded in kind. i was floored but didn't show it. you know why? i had ZERO expectations!! in fact, i don't even think i posted that on my thread. i still love my XW and miss the R terribly but at some point, you have to make the decision to step away emotionally. you can still be warm and listen like a lover etc but i'm telling you man, it's so much better for you. and here's the key, when you get to that place, they feel it and seem to relax a little. sure there will still be flare ups for them but there will be more distance between them. keep in mind, she's hurting too and i know it's hard not to say "what about me?" i know in my case it was "what about me" through most of my M. just like Yoda said "do or do not, there is no try".

hp i believe in you!

[TenBook]

HP, I have often times felt that, hey, I'm changing and doing all this, why isn't she pursuing me?

Do you have those thoughts as well?

[HPoirot]

Thanks Bravo. I hear you and agree I have to step away emotionally. I think something is really wrong with my W.

Basketball game was fine. Just gave W a hello. Didn't sit together again. No problem.

Game was fine. Boys team barely lost. He played a better game. Made some good defensive plays. Made a steal and almost made a shot.

He made some mistakes, though. And he focused on those.

At the end of the game... he was down again. He walked away from his mom. She looked stunned that he did. I told him to not do that. She tried to talk with him but he didn't talk. I put my arm around him, said see you later to W, and we walked away from her. She stood there with that stunned look on her face.

On the drive home again S12 was talking about how he didn't play well. How horrible everything is. Full of sadness. We talked. I told him about thinking positive thoughts. How your thoughts become real for you. No good.

W called on the drive home. I answered businesslike. She asked how S12 was doing. As he was sitting there, I said he was OK. She said... "I thought he had a great game! But he seemed mad at me. I didn't do anything. I don't know why he would feel that way."

I let that slide right off me. No reaction from me.

I said we're fine... we're almost home. She said ok... she would not call him. I said OK. I hung up.

S12 kept talking. I did not fight him... just repeated what he said back to him. Making sure he felt heard by me. I did have to stop him after a little while... tell him he was special... a good boy... there's nothing for him to fix... I'm here and I'll take care of him... nothing is his job or his fault... we have a lot to be grateful for... we love his mom... we'll be OK.

He's in the shower now. Singing like he always does. He's always better after a shower.

W just called again. Asked about s12. I paused... then told her the truth this time... that he's very sad... that he was not happy with his game.. that he said he's useless... that he says he can't fix anything... that I'm talking with him... the usual I said. She should know. I said it businesslike. No judgement. Just the facts. No expectations.

Her voice broke. Sounding very sad she just said... "Thank you HP. I'm on my way to my aunt's. I'll be by to pick him up in the morning." I said OK bye. I hung up. Businesslike.

No defending herself this time. No blaming me. No cursing me. No attacks. No denials.

No expectations from me that her sadness meant any of this is reaching the person I used to know.

She will drive S12 to NYC tomorrow for a hotel overnight and to see the sights. Something we always talked about doing but never got around to. I really hope they have a good time.

Monday W will visit with my IC to tell her about s12.

Tuesday S12 will start seeing my IC.

Just keep going.

[HPoirot]

HP, I have often times felt that, hey, I'm changing and doing all this, why isn't she pursuing me?

Do you have those thoughts as well?

Hey vasapro. Honestly... no.

I have a lot to change. Most importantly... how to make my own everlasting joy living in this cold city far far from a Caribbean beach.

And my W has been gradually getting resentful about my unhappiness for 7 years.

It's going to take more than standing up to her everyday, taking care of my son, looking fit and sexy, and acting "as if" I'm moving on.

I'll need to vibrate with happiness, motivation, and purpose. I'll need to have the warm Caribbean sun shinning from within me no matter where I am or how cold the weather. I'll need to dance and smile and mean it.

I'm not there yet but I will get there soon enough.

And when I get there... it won't matter if she pursues me or not.

Take care vasapro.

[TenBook]

Well said HP, and well done.