Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6

[HeavyD]

no- W is not back in the house. In fact she hates me and wants nothing to do with me at all. She's told me she's in love with the OW and wants to be with her but for us to remain friends and continue being a happy family.

She has it all worked out that the AP will live with her family and care for her kids, and my WAW will care for our kids, one big happy family. They will continue to see each other monthly and everything will be hunky dory.

I can't see that happening as I don't want to be her friend. I will be civil and polite and do my best to interact with her in a limited but business like manner.

I filed for legal separation and am working that out. It's not divorce yet, but the next best thing.

I'm sad of course, but I had no other choice as she has so blatantly disrespected me and our family. Her lies and spew are just too much.

My goals are to work on

listening better
living more in the moment and not focus so much on the future
lighten up more and try to have more fun

[HeavyD]

Also - I am very happy for you and that you are doing well. Keep up the good work my friend!

JAN

[Pink17]

Hi HP,

Yes, I was born and raised in Brasil. Came to USA on 12/2006. I am an american citizen for many years though, but still keep my brazilian citizenship as well.

I am from the south, Rio Grande do Sul, it's a state border with Argentina. We are the ones with 4 seasons, believe it or not there is harsh winter in Brasil.

Yes, Rio de Janeiro and Salvador are paradise. It's a gorgeous place, very violent too, but if you know your surroundings then it's fine.

Caipirinha is all day long stuff. At the beach you can drink from morning till night. There is a lot of freedom in Brasil, you can buy green corn (milho verde) or melted cheese, or many other kind of food right seating by the beach, drink your caipirinha or a cold beer and just relax.

Or if you are athletic, you can play some beach volleyball or try some soccer (football). Not much clothes on, yeah, it's hot and we do not wear much on.

When I was young, I used to go camping at the beach with some friends, did some surfing, just for the fun. We don't have the huge waves anyway. Sometimes it gets hard if there is a storm, but it is not some Hawaii.

I also dance Samba, one of my GAL other day was to go to a Hotel in Boulder where there is a brazilian band that plays there once in a while. Oh, my Lord, I danced on my high heels and it was so much fun. I did not want to be with any guy, just want to dance and get sweat. Loved it.

I wish you visit there one day. It's insane, people everywhere doing whatever they want. There are many street parties, beach parties, well, there are always a party somewhere for no reason. We drink a lot too. You will see, it's craaaaazy!

Last time I have been in Brasil visiting my family was back in july 2013. It's quite expensive and I can't really afford the tickets every year (w/my three kids).

My family wants me to go back, and now they bother me even more. I think about sometimes when I see all what my friends are doing and I am here trying a M with someone that does not want me anymore. We will see where God takes me next.

Hope you are still doing good. And if you want to have some fun, go to GGrass's thread, or RD. I feel so good reading those posts, have a look at it for some laughs. It is good for your spirit.

About dinner, I am OK with that. Now if you decide to get mad and angry and have a chick fit on me, you can be sure you get the dinner on your head. Yes, I am some Star Wars character, I have the dark side in me, I think Yoda told me that. Think about, would you still have dinner with me knowing that the plate could end up on your head?

Have fun my friend, you deserve it.
Hugs,
Pink

[Sotto]

Hi HP - glad you're doing ok. I just wanted to add my note of caution to the contact with your previous OW. Handle with care on that one! Particularly if she was the OW you had an A with (if I've understood right). That's going to be like lighting the blue touch paper and standing back.

It's really really tempting to seek solace from an attractive member of the opposite sex. It can make us feel much better and save us from a pile of hard work and introspection. BUT - if you really hope to save your M, I worry for you that this would take you further and further away from that. Is that what you really want?

Just my 0.2 for you...

[PatientMan]

Hello Drew. Yes I see your point. I stress my OW is in a good place in her M now she says and I am not trying to ruin anyone else's life. That and she's right now she really helps we with her WAW knowledge. We acknowledged what you mentioned and I'm not going to go there.

She's "in a good place", but is talking about relationships to a man who is not her husband, who just happens to be her former affair partner? Red flags! Start paying attention.

-PM

[HPoirot]

HP, you can reach that level of calmness that will allow you to deal with the irritations of your W. I still believe she is wanting to get her needs met through both you and OM. She wants your friendship, conversational relationship, and family events. If you can settle for that without any expectations.......that is your decision to make. Some people, including MWD, believe in being friends with the WAS. However, she says in Divorce Remedy that if the S refuses to end their A, to get a lawyer and file. So the way I interpreted much of her advice was not applicable when the wayward spouse simply refused to end their A. But it is the personal decision of the individual as the length of time they endure the infidelity.

I think whatever you decide to do about the contacting--or NC, you need to be consistent. When you respond part of the time then get angry and refuse to answer, that's not good. It is not giving her a clear picture of you. She will not give up her manipulative tactics. Everyone has to decide "what works" for them in their stitch. You've tried a little of this and that, but no consistency. I can see what a challenge it would be with your W!!

You are so tormented my friend, and I think I can speak for everyone when I say we just want to see you have peace. IMO, there are two things that should be your priority, the physical & mental health of S12, and your own peace of mind. Try your best to get your focus off of W's thoughts and actions, and focus on those two priorities.

Hello Sandi. Thank you so much for this post. You are right that I have not at all been consistent. In the last 24 hours I've gone from extreme NC all the way to "listening like a lover." Time for me to choose...

Last night S12 had basketball practice. W did not show up to talk as I said I would not.

After practice, I told S12 that he would spend tomorrow night with W as scheduled. He did not like that and wanted to talk to his mom. He called. She did not answer.

The entire drive home he tried to call but no answer. This was stressing him out. I talked to him to calm him. Said she was probably at work. Told him to leave a message and send a text which he did. Even so, by the time we got to the condo he was upset. I was irritated too.

Even so, he got in the shower and was soon happy and singing. I texted W... "S12 has been trying to reach you."

It had been 40 minutes since S12's first call when W called him. He was still in shower so I texted W... "He's in the shower."

We traded texts. I said S12 got upset she didn't answer. She said sorry she was in the shower.

When S12 got out of the shower, he call W. He started to talk angrily and disrespectfully and I corrected him. Even so, he showed his mom he was upset and said "Why aren't you here? Just solve your problem and come live with us!" Along those lines. He also didn't want to stay with her the next night.

W asked to talk with me. She was upset. Saying she was looking at an apartment to help S12. That he didn't like to stay at aunt's house. Asked me again to take him most nights. She would drive him to school. She was very agitated.

I let my irritation show about her not answering. Told her I didn't want to here her excuses.
When she angrily said S12 only called her 2 times when he had been trying for 30 minutes... I got angry.

It turned into a very angry R talk.

Nothing new except W talking about how angry and miserable she is and she's an adulterer now. There were things she's forgot she said and history rewritten. Me backsliding badly by talking logic to her and finally saying I'm letting her go.

In the end we were calmer. I end saying "I'm done talking" and hung up.

After I go to bed, she starts texting me about her schedule changes like we did not just have a terrible conversation. I text back I'm asleep and leave the calendar as it is. She apologizes.

This morning, she calls and leaves a VM talking about me paying all of S12's tuition again.

Then she says how happy she feels that we talked last night. That she's sorry that it got heated. That she would like to talk more. That, if I could find it in my heart, to please call her.

That call... her crying about how she fell into her A and didn't mean it to happen but here we are and she knows she treaded me like sh!t and she's confident she won't ruin S12's life... was the second worst talk of my life... second only to our last R talk.

I texted her that I would pay my part of the tuition. Then I said... "As for calling you... I have decided to reduce all contact with you b/c I'm moving forward." I said I would continue to take her emergency calls and respond to her texts and emails. Then ... "I'm sure you understand. Thank you."

Went on with my day.

Later, she says ... "Thank you HP. Are you going to secure an attorney?"

I don't respond.

Later she calls. Leaves a VM saying she understands what I'm saying... but we should still sit talk about money and child support and school. She said we could go to MC for co-parenting. She asked me to call.

She immediately texted the same. "Our marriage may be over but we have to talk." That last night was awful. That we're good parents and let's please do our best during this transition for our son.

I reply that I got her VM and text. Thanks for sharing. I'll discuss these things via email or friend or family intermediary. That I will not accept direct contact with her. I wish her well.

She sends me an angry email that she wants to use a mediator. About how sad it is that it's come to this b/c I'm so mad.

So we're in a bad bad place. I don't feel it's the right place.

I'm remembering 25 and Chuck talking about "listening like a lover." I try to think of W. I know from her email that she is lashing out scared like her IC told her. Remember all the comments how she is trying to be a good mom. Remember all the 2x4's about being a good dad and being polite. Thinking I'm about to blink. Thinking I have nothing to lose.

So, when she's due to pick up S12 from his guitar practice, I call her.

I ask her how S12 is b/c he was stressed about practice today. She is at the music room door and says he looks happy. She starts to talk about him. I can hear she is fighting not to cry. I ask her to tell me what's wrong. She says nothing. She says she's not feeling great and starts to cry.

I listen. I ask her about her work day. She opens up and tells me all about it. She is crying a little. I listen and ask her questions about what she says. She keeps talking. Talks for 20 minutes about her work and plans for business. She tells me about her apartment hunt, and her plan to take S12 to NYC overnight this weekend. I ask her if she's OK for money. She says no. She keeps saying thank you for asking. She keeps crying a little.

She asks me about my work. I tell her about my project.

She thanks me for talking with her. How much she appreciates it. How shocked she is that I called..

She offers to pick up some groceries for us on the way to drop S12 off here. I tell her to get S12's breakfast food.

She says if I want anything else to text her. I say bye and hung up. A little later, I text her food that she would know is for me. She replies... "OK!"

S12 just called me. Says he and W are going to stop for burritos. Asks if W can get me one. I say sure.

So complete inconsistency. I don't know what works.

NC wasn't working b/c W still kept calling and I was looking like an avoider and it made room for our growing anger. This is what she expects me to do.

I just showed I can be friendly when we talk like we used to. When I show interest in S12 and her day. It fits what DB Coach Chuck and 25 tell me about empathy. My W wants acceptance and to be listened to. She knows what she did and is doing is horrible but she says she can't let go.

So I can kill her with kindness. This would be a major 180 for me to keep going this way. Somehow distant and friendly. Leave my ego someplace else and be humble about my part in all this. Sit with her at a table and have lunch. Risk feeling like a doormat.

W just texted me. Burrito place was closed. She asked if a burger is OK with me. I say sure... bacon, onions, bbq sauce, no cheese. She texts OK.

I don't know what I'm doing.

[Vanilla]

HP

You do know what you are doing.

sugar, sugar, sugar. listen, validate good stuff, ignore the vomit.

No R talk but warmth on everything else.

You are up to this, all your skills in play

Vanilla

[LisaB]

Hi HP,
I think you hit the nail on the head here.

Do what works!

As someone said to you a few pages back, you are probably getting confused because you have so many great people giving you different advice and it all sounds smart, so what to do?

Do what works.

Re-read DB/DR. All of us giving you our experiences and advice is great and the vets know what they are talking about but we are here because of Michelle. What does she say?

So like you said, trying to be NC was not really working. It was not bringing you closer and it was not bringing YOU peace.

Like someone said being "dark" might bring you some much needed peace but I think it was costing you so much trying to enforce it with your crazy wife. And your son was also suffering.

Here would be my advice for now. Be warm and friendly in response to her overtures. Be polite. Listen when she talks but don't engage or argue. Validate and let it go. Respond to calls and texts in a friendly timely manner. Hopefully this will bring you some peace as she will maybe calm down and stop harassing you all the time with a million texts and calls. And then maybe you won't feel so angry and irritated and you can have some peace to work on yourself.

When that calm comes, don't use it as an opportunity to cling on to your WAW and start obsessing on her whereabouts. Use that calm peace and friendliness as an opportunity to GAL. If you don't have to spend so much time and energy avoiding her calls and being angry and fighting with her about not responding to her, and writing on here about your experiences (although I do always read your sitch).. you can use that time to GAL! You need to GAL! And keep focusing on your own happiness and fulfillment.

Be friendly with her, polite and brief. And then go out and do fun stuff with and without your son!

I feel like it is easier and works better than this constant fighting and stress you are under. I know you are not the one harassing her, but what you are doing is not working. Time for a new plan. Sounds like you are trying it already. See if it works and if so, keep on until it doesn't work any more. Try and assess.

Good luck HP!
Hugs, Lisa

[HPoirot]

Thank you Vanilla. Keeping the anger down between the 2 of us should keep the R talks down. Then I'll just not work on my M while I work on myself.

Nice to get free groceries and dinner (from my W who claims money problems). She bought me 2 boxes of my cereal like she always has. She allowed cheese in my burger, though. Might have to punish her for that (joking).

Nice thing about today... I'm finding I'm not too afraid of D. Honestly, I'm living it right now. I would like to save my R if possible... but I see I'm already dead. I'm framing the brutality of this sitch as the motivation for me to finally have a life I love.

So I'm thinking of doing the February Essential Experience Workshop.

Focusing on my life. Working to turn down the noise from W. Still not sure I'm on the R track but I know showed a better side of myself today. I showed empathy to my W for my family health. For my boy.

Onward.

[sandi2]

So I'm thinking of doing the February Essential Experience Workshop.

Good for you. I have heard 25 yrs praise it highly.

I do hope you can find balance, HP. I agree that your anger is eating up most of your energy and the inconsistency keeps you frustrated.

I do have a suggestion, however. In these contacts with your W, you do not have to contend with her verbal disrespect. As soon as she starts raising her voice, or says something to cause your anger to rise, interrupt and say, "I am going to hang up now". It takes two to fight, so if you can be strong enough to listen to warning sirens blowing.......you can end it in it's tracks. Don't slam the phone down, but tell her you are ending the call and then put the receiver down. As much as she craves conversation with you, she will eventually learn she can scream and curse at you or you will end it.

I have noticed when she has a call from S12 that isn't to her liking, she immediately calls you and vents her anger or frustration. Usually, you are as upset as your son with her, so it doesn't end well. Perhaps you could address this with her (when the timing is good) and ask if she will agree not to call you immediately following an upsetting talk with her son. Present it as a better co-parenting skill, or a better communicating relationship between the two of you......or whatever, but it is clearly a bad habit she's forming that needs to stop. Even scheduling a set time once a week to discuss all her concerns with S12 would seem better, b/c it would give both of you time to settle down.
However, even as I write this, I really doubt she could stick to not texting of some alternative to calling.