Requesting support and direction

[sandi2]

. If thoughts are very powerful things, and It seems like I'm constantly thinking about my W and the OM (their online sex sessions etc.) Then do you think that my that very act I'm giving the OM, and possibly my W, more power over the situation then they really have?

Ah, but you already know the answer, don't you?

Ok so I'm learning that I have a big issue with control. It just kinda hit me today... It's probsbly at the route of my problems marriage wise, and probsbly has a lot to do wth my own happiness. I can't seem to let it all go.... I'm trying I know that it is probsbly the biggest 180 that I need to do: learn to let go and not be in control. Any advice on how to do that?

This may sound crazy to some, but I use to have big control issues.......and didn't know it. I don't think I was actually trying to dictate or control, but I would get very upset when anyone did not do what I thought was "right". One time I was so upset at my sibling (after we were grown) b/c of something she did and I was spewing all over the place when my dad said, "Sandi, when are you going to learn that your sister is not going to live her life the way YOU think she should?" Well, I was stunned! But it caused me to start thinking about it and I wondered why someone had never mentioned it to me. I started that day in practicing the act of letting go. And it does take practice.

I will tell you this, Andy, it is one of the most freeing experiences to accept the fact you have absolutely no control over the person or issue. When we elect ourselves as being in charge of how another person lives, feels, makes decisions, etc......that places a tremendous responsibility on us.

As I grew older and had bigger problems to come my way, I leaned more and more to let go of what I had no control over. For me personally, I put my faith in God to take care of the other person or situation. I'm not sure what people do who do not have a spiritual belief, so I can't help much in that area.

I believe many LBS's operate out of fear. That fear causes them to clinch tighter onto some sliver of control over the WAS. However, that is one of the worst things to do. We cannot make another person love us if they do not want to. We can't actually make them do exactly like we want them to do. We can't make them be happy.

Observe your own behavior by thinking over the years you've been M and see now you may have applied pressure to her, trying to get things to be like you wanted it. Trust me when I say, the best way to handle anyone who threatens to leave is to tell them you are not holding them back. Don't argue or fight trying to keep them. Love has to be without pressure.

Letting go of the control does not mean you no longer care. It just means you have resigned from being boss.

[NewB3]

[quote].

I believe many LBS's operate out of fear. That fear causes them to clinch tighter onto some sliver of control over the WAS. However, that is one of the worst things to do. We cannot make another person love us if they do not want to. We can't actually make them do exactly like we want them to do. We can't make them be happy.

Observe your own behavior by thinking over the years you've been M and see now you may have applied pressure to her, trying to get things to be like you wanted it. Trust me when I say, the best way to handle anyone who threatens to leave is to tell them you are not holding them back. Don't argue or fight trying to keep them. Love has to be without pressure.

Letting go of the control does not mean you no longer care. It just means you have resigned from being boss.

Putting this in my journal of focus. I have found many things like this in the past few days. You could not have said it better. Thanks

[Andy125]

Hi guys/gals I wanted to shoot a quick thank you to everyone who responded. I have lots to I'd like to add but.... I'm about to take a step into the biggest change of my life in years! I'm scared and excited all at the same time!! I'll write more of a response later. I really do appreciate the comments.

[Andy125]

So first I’d like to apologize for some of the spelling errors in my responses. I usually respond from my phone and I’ve not been careful enough to double check spelling etc.

Toots, I to be honest that isn’t a short answer. I think in a lot of ways I have been controlling or had issues with control for a long time. When things haven’t gone my way in the past I have looked for people, and things to blame. This has led to a whole swath of emotions, to include anger and getting depressed because things were not going my way. I think that this over emphasis on trying to control things certainly has contributed to my depression and my general negative outlook on life. This I’m sure has been hard to live with.

Now to get more specific within my sitch. Back in June 2014 my W expressed wanting to help out her work partner, who was in the process of getting divorced. She stated “she was one of his close friends” and probably was. Again there is a lot that can be said about that comment; however the nature of her job those bonds form. At first I was supportive of it, my W and I had always taken the approach of individual freedom and space. But as the number of times going out with him increased (usually going out drinking) I became un-easy, I became suspicious (I’m sure my own actions from my past played into it) and my controlling side reared its ugly head. I’m sure as I dive into this more with my own counselor I will learn that it this side of me has played more of a role in my life then I realize. Over the next couple months I tried to control what was going on. I spied, tried to keeps tabs, fought, and at the same time tried (very unsuccessfully) to give my W space. It only led to her moving further and further away, and becoming very unhappy with the spouse I was turning into. As I look back on it I can’t believe the things that I was doing, it was like I was another person. As I tried to grip tighter and control more, the more she slipped through my fingers. How I wish I had found DB then, maybe it would have opened up my eyes… maybe not.

Specifically I tried to figure out where she was, constantly. I tried to control who she was talking to online. I constantly asked about whom she was texting, and when I didn’t get a good answer I would persist. Then my control invaded my prayers, I found (and again up until recently) my prayers were dominated by asking God for specific things. I asked him to end her affair, to change her mind, to bring her back, to hit the OM with a truck It honestly had become an obsession, and its only now that I see just how toxic it has made things.

Sandi thank you for the response! You are right I do know the answer to that question, and it is through quiet reflection that I am starting to realize just how much power I have given the OM. I am also learning that I simply need to practice the art of letting go. And I truly believe that it is an art, something that needs to be practiced over and over. Hopefully over time I will get better at it and shape my mind so that it comes easier. I am also changing the way that I pray, and simply giving this situation over to God.

Vapo made a great suggestion and the video made a lot of sense. Another speaker that I have found very insightful is Dr. Brene Brown; she is doing good research on issues of vulnerability, shame and empathy. I think that there is a lot of merit in trying to simply empathize with my W. However to do that you need to allow a level of vulnerability to happen, which when in a sitch like this, is about that last thing that you want to do. Don’t get me wrong that isn’t easy to do, and I’m only now trying to figure it out. Thoughts? I am very grateful for this forum, its allowing me to open up and express my thoughts openly with a lot of support.

[sandi2]

There have been so many M's to get into trouble b/c the W had a close male friend and they would pal around without the H. Big mistake! I believe our society has to learn that no matter how "equal" or "individual" we are as men and women, when it comes to a marriage........you cannot have close "friends" of the opposite sex that excludes your spouse. You are playing with a ticking bomb.

I know some disagree with me, but that's okay. I still stand by it. It really isn't a trust issue, it's a "being smart" issue. It is affair proofing your M.

Just look at how many A's start between co-workers, b/c they are thrown together at work, meetings, dinners, trips, etc. Just based on the threads that have been on the boards, it seems like an epidemic.

The smart thing couples should do is come together and have a serious discussion about a guide to use throughout their M that will protect the M from possibly involving a third person. I'm concerned that many couples just write it off as "you either trust me or you don't". And yes, we need to be able to trust........but be smart.

It sounds as if your W is at least emotionally involved with this "friend" and will use the friendship to mask what is really happening between them.

Trying to control her is useless. And right this minute, if you were to tell her it's either you or OM, she would choose OM. So, you need to decide where you will draw the line. If this feels like she is disrespecting you, smearing it in your face, making OM priority, belittling you, and causing you to have strong suspicions.........how much will you take?

We all need personal boundaries when dealing with people, from strangers to relatives. I'm sure there are things you would not tolerate from someone else. You expect people to show respect to you, right? Well, that is one example. Boundaries are not used to control the other person, but to protect yourself. Boundaries are not ultimatums. So think about it.

[Andy125]

Hey Sandi thanks for the response, and I completely agree… it just leads to trouble no matter how strong you think that you are. Unfortunately to add to my story, it did in fact turn into an A. My controlling snooping etc. was in part a direct result of her telling me they were just friends when then truly weren’t. I later learn through on online web site called Experience project that she was in fact in a PA and EA with this man. I learned that he had ended it with her about this time a year ago, but truly didn’t know the details until later (again more snooping and finding her posts online). Based on what I read she was devastated that it ended, it was very hard reading and I spent a large amount of time torturing myself reading and re-reading the many posts.

Once confronted I thought that might be it, and we might be ready for things to get better. We tried to let it go to look past it all and move on. Honestly I wasn’t ready for it, and neither do I think was she. Repeatedly last spring I heard how she didn’t love me anymore, and I did everything that all the Db’ers say not to. Almost to a T I did everything, beg pleaded, chased, pursued, cried, yelled… got angry… and again tried to control the whole thing. I also failed, she went further away. I later learned that she started having an EA online with a man from Australia. She supposedly fell in love with him too. At that time I was reaching a point in my own counseling work where I was finally making progress. I thought that maybe now we could actually make some progress in our R. The EA began to end at the beginning of the summer when the OM2 decided to get back with his separated W.

Our summer was fairly decent but I also think that I hadn’t learned enough about myself to make lasting changes. I still struggled with trust, and honestly she was doing some things to regain it…. But was taking the approach of “fake it till ya feel it”… and again I was still trying to control the whole thing… I wasn’t letting go. I also began talking more with someone online myself, somehow thinking that I was justified, and that it would help. It didn’t and quickly I learned that it was not what I wanted, nor did it make me feel better. By the end of the summer another Australian had come along, and is the current OM that I write about in my posts… so that would make it OM3. So here we go, talk about making myself vulnerable…. That is my story. There are little tidbits in there along with my own mistakes…. Lots of them both big and little… I had my own A years before that I admitted to in the spring when I finally learned the details of the A with her work partner (OM1)…. I have really learned a lot about me, going through this hell of mine… and I’m very curious to learn more about how I can work on letting go.

I will say this just before I learned about OM3, I had come to a point where I simply forgave both my W and her work partner. I still do, and that simple act was incredibly liberating in ways I never knew it would be. I guess in a way I also let go there too…. Now how to figure out how to do it more.

[25yearsmlc]

Ok so I'm learning that I have a big issue with control. It just kinda hit me today... It's probsbly at the route of my problems marriage wise, and probsbly has a lot to do wth my own happiness. I can't seem to let it all go.... I'm trying I know that it is probsbly the biggest 180 that I need to do: learn to let go and not be in control. Any advice on how to do that?

3 things. First, so you know, in 2006 I told my sisters that my "marriage has a 10% chance of lasting..."

Second, how to deal with the fears and stress and obsessing? Well...

If you are a believer, you can try turning it over to God. IF not, maybe a "higher power" or "the universe" would help.

I literally had to think it, say it, and hear myself say it, dozens of times for it to sink in. (I'd do this in the shower so the kids didn't think I was nuts).

But invariably, it calmed me. "God, I turn my marriage/pain/anger over to you."

Also, GAL helps with Detaching, more than any other single thing.

You are actually doing quite well. I'm impressed with your personal insights and personal work.

If those insights lead you to real change, then that's no small thing.

Finally, For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. And I had 3 kids, including a baby

(so you know I don't want to hear about how you are 'too busy' to GAL).

Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. -

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).

I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).

I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.

I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.

I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding.

Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.

Went skydiving. Loved it so much I did it again. And plan on doing it again, soon!

Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.

(Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long winters).

Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).

Joined the Officer's Wives club, after 15 years of h being active duty, & my own status as a veteran.

(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)

Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot.

Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.

[Andy125]

3 things. First, so you know, in 2006 I told my sisters that my "marriage has a 10% chance of lasting..."

Second, how to deal with the fears and stress and obsessing? Well...

If you are a believer, you can try turning it over to God. IF not, maybe a "higher power" or "the universe" would help.

I literally had to think it, say it, and hear myself say it, dozens of times for it to sink in. (I'd do this in the shower so the kids didn't think I was nuts).

But invariably, it calmed me. "God, I turn my marriage/pain/anger over to you."

Also, GAL helps with Detaching, more than any other single thing.

You are actually doing quite well. I'm impressed with your personal insights and personal work.

If those insights lead you to real change, then that's no small thing.

Thanks 25yearsmlc that really helps! I will admit I have been doing alot of speaking to God in the shower.... and funny enough for the same reasons!

That is certainly a long list, and you are very right I have no excuse! I actually have had no one really give me an example of how they GAL. I am really looking forward to being back in school, I can see myself slowly growing into a lot of new things. So for the next 2 weeks I will prep for that... but I have started to see what fun and exciting things I might be able to try.

[Andy125]

Ok so need some thoughts on this one. Last night my W clearly decided to push against the boundaries I had set up. I had asked her to keep it down if she was going to choose to talk to the OM (she is sleeping in the basement). Well last night she seem to be setting up like she has in the past for a session with him. I went to put my D8 to bed and thought I could hear my W talking. I then went into my room to settle in for the night and could definetly hear her talking. Before I could get up to go ask her to keep it down D8 got up went down stairs and told my W to keep it down. i personally think that her talking with him loudly had everything to do with me practicing detaching both last night and over the last couple days.

I think last night she might have been really feeling both my PMA (thanks to everyone here) and the fact that I'm detaching. She came up and listened to me read a story to D5... Which seemed odd... And wanted to know where I went (I spontaneously decided to buy a bottle of wine to give to a co-worker today. Because she had a really rough day yesterday) my response was simply "I needed to pick something up at the store. So just wondering is it ok that D8 took care of the problem last night? Honestly I do not want my kids involved this way at all. But she did it before I could stop her and I'm not really sure if I should have. Also D5 must have woken up in the night and crawled down to climb into bed with my W.... That hasn't happend much or at all as long as I'm here at night. I seriously can't help but see God at work here now that I've given (or am trying to as best I can) over to him.... Or her depending on your view

[sandi2]

Last night my W clearly decided to push against the boundaries I had set up. I had asked her to keep it down if she was going to choose to talk to the OM

She pushed......and what did you do?

How exactly did you state it to her?

IDK, Andy, I realize you are learning about boundaries, but that sounds a little weak. When you set a boundary, you have to be prepared to know what YOU will do if that boundary is not honored. To me, what you told her was like saying, "When you and OM have phone sex or Internet sex (whichever it is), will you just try not to get so loud, please?"

So, she obviously didn't care if you or her children heard her. If D8 interrupting her phone/Internet sex had no influence, I doubt you "asking" her to keep it down will. Besides, have you thought about what you will do if she doesn't? B/c she didn't, and you can't keep "asking" her b/c every time you state a boundary it weakens it. And you really didn't state it, you asked.

You have to know what you can control and what you can't. You can't control her, so that means if she doesn't honor your stated boundary, then the action has to come from you. How will you protect yourself (or your children) when a boundary is broken? That is what you have to think about before you spout off something and label it a "boundary".

If you are going to tolerate her living in the same house with you and the children while she conducts her A under the same roof, then you have to come up with a better plan to at least shield your children from her waywardness. She has no sense of sexual morals right now, and I'm sure you do not want your children exposed to what their mother is doing down in the basement. So, you have to think it through and decide what you can and can't do about it.

Your W is a serial cheater. You've had one A. This relationship is very damaged and if the two of you ever decide to try to work it out again, you better get the top professional to help and not just "look past it". That does not work.