T0324 continued part 2

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=T0324]And also for clarity -

We moved across the state in 2011 with a newborn and toddler for his job. He got a great opportunity so I left all family and moved 4 hours away. He HATED it there. He was MISERABLE. That's why we moved back to our home here in 2012.

All of our moves have been for him and his jobs.

Sorry T0, but I'm still a tad confused. I see this^^ and I accept it (and boy, do I relate). But then below you mention moves to be near family and so, my apologies for not keeping it straight.

Guess when it comes to money you say you only talk bout it here but you also say that's "Because h said it was all I talked about", so is it fair to say it used to be a problem but is now a resolved issue b/c you have changed that behavior?

I'm not trying to belabor it, but it's His perception that matters in this example.



The theme with him is something that really bothers me. He is so hot and cold. In the beginning everything is great then it isn't. For example - he bought me a beautiful SUV for Christmas in 2012. I love it and was so surprised... It was when things were really great between us (not because of money) but it was a great time - we had moved back home and he was happy = us happy. Now the truck is a POS (his words) waste of money etc so we are selling it. I know that's a stupid example but it's the same with everything.

Sounds Not so much "hot and cold" as "novelty wore off" kind of thing. Yes? And this is Not a new behavior or trait of his, correct? How'd you use to deal with it?

This job he's at now was great his old job sucked. Now it's the opposite. Even if I would be okay with him going back to thay job he would hate it in time also.

Oh and OW was before we separated. Phone bills show they started texting all day and night starting in December of 2013. He only said that they did talk inappropriately (her saying he deserved better than me, our boys deserved better, her parents went through divorce and she was happier having them D than M) he did say he probably would have never left if he wasn't talking to her and her family wasn't so supportive of him (he lived there for 4-5months with OW at her parents)

Hope this helps. 25 I still have more to say.

So, just so I'm clear on this^^^ (all of which sukks, btw), you knew it all before he moved back in, correct?

OR did you learn it later on? Don't worry about what I'm implying, I'm just trying to figure out what is a "new" thing for you to cope with, versus you struggling with the past.

The bottoms line is that you have 2 threshold questions to address.

1) Can we do this 'reconciliation thing at all?

AND

2) how can I reduce/eliminate the risk of that same behavior happening again?

Seems most of the first question has been answered with a "let's try" and now you are wracking your brain about the second question's answer.

Is that a fair assessment?

Well, I'm going to now post 2 pieces by other DBers and

I hope you'll find some answers or insights in their words...or at least some food for thought.


Keep on keeping on, T0.

First is from Denver's thread, from MHL (and you can exchange his "W" for your "H", "he/she", and so forth.

Denver,
--
Okay, down to business..........

Your operating from a place of fear......it is normal. I know because of what you posted right up there. You basically said it in bold......

you were afraid that your W would make some sort of interpretation…..

Another way to look at the statement up there is to try to take out the "but" and make it sound the same as you originally intended........

The "BUTS" will get you everytime........

It really highlights when YOU are trying to justify something that you know is wrong or when you are saying something but don't really believe what it is you are saying…….
Think about it.........

Take a scenario where you are trying to apologize to someone for something you did or said to them. Often we really blame them for what we did instead of really "Owning our words/actions"

Therefore, we say......

"I'm sorry......BUT you made me do it."

translate....

"I'm sorry......BUT not really." smile

Soooooo......

Until you deal with that fear of how your W may or may not interpret something you do or say…….

you really are not in a position to interact with her........you will eff up the sitch.

Clearly the debate going on in your thread is passionate and thought provoking.....

I am going to tell you that IMO both sides are correct.....

(how was that for being diplomatic laugh )

25 is trying to get you to deal with the internal demons that plague you and me and anyone else that is here and has been betrayed........that anger beast is a real b!tch.

You never really get rid of it.....and you shouldn't it is part of who you are........it is part of who I am.

You take my cheerio's away from me, I am going to get mad/angry.

It is how we deal with it and ultimately react to it that determines how others view us and interact with us.

25 is imploring you to see past your pain and focus on how your W is feeling. How she could get to a place where she could leave the marriage and cheat.

Now to be clear......There is nothing you did that caused her to cheat.......that was her decision and she will have to own that, and more importantly YOU HAVE TO LET YOUR W deal with it on her own..........and she will in TIME. (It will be very hard on her.)

This is what 25 is saying.....that you actually have to have some compassion for her in order for your heart to be in the right place to do what you need to do.

Now, you very much need to stop engaging as some of us are imploring you to do.......

However

you need to do it from a loving and compassionate place.

Hard to do.

I will continue to push you to do the right thing until your heart is in the right place to do something different.

As long as you are operating from a place of fear, and make no mistake......YOU ARE............you have not adequately dealt with the underlying issues that re-inforce that fear.

One of those issues is ANGER.

When SBH, Starsky, Faith and anyone else that advocates an action that might come off as punitive or retaliatory, it is mistaken as being anger that has not been dealt with adequately.

Here is the problem.........YOU definitely NEED to take the actions that are being suggested......

however if you have not dealt with your pain and the very valid emotions that come with your pain then your actions will wreak of ANGER.

This is really where I come down in the middle.......

You need to pull back because you are really not ready to deal with her "in-decision" yet. Now there is the added benefit that by pulling back you might actually attract your W back.....ie the dance of the pursuer and distancer.

I think that this is where we all start to disagree......it is not that we neccessarily disagree with the course of action it is that we disagree with the motivation behind the action.

Some here are trying to motivate you from a place of pride and self respect........nothing wrong with self respect and pride IF you have done the hard internal work to deal with YOUR PAIN and ANGER and it has really become part of who you are.........part of your "skin" so to speak. (nickel to Mach).

Denver, I can tell you that while you might have identified some things that you need to work on or are working on.......your words here tell some of us (ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE) that you still have some strides to make.

BTW.....these strides are not meassured by how much your W is being nice to you or is doing things with you or anything to do with your wife.

GET IT??????

I can tell you that even after you have done the work you never are ever really done.......I can tell you that some of the most thoughtful, introspective and loving MEN here on these boards still struggle to keep their motivations pure and true.

Their actions remain the same, hopefully those actions are motivated by Love.......however Anger can creep back in sometimes and it has to be dealt with again, but we learn as we go........

I will repeat the drum beat........

Stop engaging your W, close FB, drop the timelines, focus on Denver.........

Your W will be in the same place YOU left her..........

She definitely has some of her own shat to deal with.

Cheers

MHL

[25yearsmlc]

T02

this other post is from Sandi2, and is worth pondering for all of us.

I found it profoundly moving. I hope you get something out of it and if not, at least it's thought provoking and geez, we need to post it somewhere. (So Thanks for indulging me.)


FROM SANDI2, posted just yesterday (1/11/2015) HP's thread...


I don't mean to depress anyone and I really don't where to post this, so I pray it is acceptable to HP that I do it here. I am having a very difficult time today, so maybe It will help if I try to write. I am grieving very deeply over the passing of a loved one.

The years of one's life has been reduced to a few boxes to be stored away. Will anyone ever look at it again? IDK, I just know I can't throw it away. Not yet, maybe never. The memories........are so sweet and yet painful as I know all my chances to share with that one person are gone forever.

I should have done more, should have been better. Why do we live as though we have forever? Time was so short, so precious, and so much of it was wasted.
I have learned anger has many faces. Rage, smoldering, resentment, bitterness, jealousy, judgement, vindictiveness, disappointment, and so much more.

We choose to not forgive b/c we don't want to let go of the anger. Why would we ever want to cling to something that makes us so ugly within?

Forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with us. It has nothing to do with them deserving or earning our pitiful forgiveness to them. Forgiveness is based on who and what we are as a person, not them.

As I search my heart today, I believe I have forgiven every person who ever did me wrong.

Yet, I struggle to forgive myself for the pain I have caused my loved one who is gone. The disappointment and absolute horror of my actions will forever be my shame to bear. The disgrace I brought on the memory of those who raised me, and to those who loved me as best they could. How do I ever make it right? I can't.

Today my pain is so great. I want to gather all my cherished family and hold them so tight. I want to tell the world to stop this craziness and just love each other while they have the time. But I know this is part of the grieving I must do. It is a process.......much like forgiveness.

Sometimes we can't just make the decision and it's done. We have to work on it a little more each day. Maybe someday I will even be able to forgive myself. Strange, b/c I thought I had, until this happened. Regret.........for anyone who reads this, please don't live in regret. Life is so short.


Tomorrow I will move forward a little more. That is all we can do. Don't stop growing and loving, and giving of ourselves. Make each day count, a sweet memory without regret.
_____

[T384]

I'm just walking into work so I will respond to everything at some point today

H is still sleeping with his phone in his pocket. It has been over a week since we have ML.

I just feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am just waiting for when he leaves and doesn't come back.

Why is he so secretive about his stupid phone. I don't want to be done but I feel like I need to be. What am I holding on for? Someone that treats me like this after all these promises. I think he would be happy if I ended it so he wouldn't have to feel guilty

[T384]

So I was thinking of sending H a text along the lines of I'm going to counseling Wednesday at 7. Just so he knows and can leave it up to him if he wants to go?

[JCred]

How are you going to word the text?

[T384]

I don't know! 😁

I scheduled an appt with C on wednesday

[JCred]

Do you want to ask him to go or do you want him to offer on his own?

[Sotto]

Is it going to be productive for him to go to MC with you when some kind of inappropriate contact is going on?

[claire7]

It will always be up to him to decide to go. What if you added... "I hope you will join me?"

T0, I know your H is in a tough spot...I often wonder myself what I would do if my H actually came back, but then didn't change.

To me it feels like going back to DB101. I am really with 25 on this one. You can only control you. I know you said that you are not criticizing him about $$, but you have offered to pay for things. ..right? Maybe he interprets that as criticism.

Or maybe he is just kind of emotionally immature or something, and not quite able to be a full healthy partner.

Do you want to try to save the M? You can't change him, but you can change you. What can you change? Instead of feeling like he owes you something b/c he left, can you show him why he's a fool to leave?

I remember when I first started reading your threads, you sounded so angry. I'm hearing that again.

You have to decide on the path that will feel right to you... but it does sound like your H is still in crisis. And if you still want to DB you might have to still lead the way.
Hang in there.

[25yearsmlc]

Smart woman........ Don't get sidetracked here........

You're doing just fine. HE IS dropping the ball here and not
you.

Again.. As a man...

I'm not sure you are speaking so much as a man here, as an LBS
There are lots of men here. They don't post identically to you.
.
--
-- I know what 25 says worked for her, but you need to understand that her husband always kept loving her and said he loved her. He didn't have an affair. He wanted her to be with him, she just didn't want to go to Alaska with him.


No, that's^^ not my story. He dated OWs (and I dated OMs). He ran off to Alaska at least 3 times without telling me. He lived in Palo Alto for a year before he moved to Alaska...

There's a lot more to it.

Please don't summarize my story in some over simplified Reader's Digest version, when it's much harder & vastly more complicated than you can possibly know (hence my having over 10, 000 posts here).

Plus, it really bothers me that you refuse to tell anyone your own. You don't reply to the many questions I & other posters have asked you as well.

Have you read the DB books? I cannot recall a single time you mention a DB concept. Just you telling others what to do, you know, since you're "a man".

What I get from you is the wish to be "right", more than anything else.

That's not to say T0 shouldn't drop the rope or do LRT, or follow some other DB advice

but your advice just comes off as, well you know, YOURS...

Just because she had an anger issue doesn't mean you have one just because you are angry. We all get angry. That doesn't mean we have an anger issue. Sometimes people on here can only see through the eyes of what they went through

and think it must applie to others because it was once an issue with them.


You will see this again and again on here. You will get advice from what they had an issue with. Be careful with that.
Know who you are. Remember, these people are not trained professionals and could very well be giving you a diagnosis that is completely wrong. I think that is the case here. Just my opinion.


Above^^, is known as the pot calling the kettle black.

Below, is you giving her the same advice I & others gave her, but pretending it's different and unique to you.

Why do I sense a growing "competition" in you, as if there is a contest? I also get that you want to put others.

What's that all about?

I'm not interested in being declared the victor.

I am using the values and beliefs promoted here by MWD, with her divorce busting tools, to help someone navigate their way through a morass of conflicting emotions and values and hoping to maybe to help their m.




-
The issue is that showing your anger to him isn't working.
That's all it is. Nothing more. Doesn't mean it is an issue. Just means that showing your anger isn't working. Just accept it for that...
-


Further down here, I read the comments below.


So you "Don't want to seem arrogant" but then you speak for all men and

tell her to pretty much ignore other advice, b/c hey, THEY aren't professionals...

but You are, right?

JCred, why won't you share your story with us?

Why not give DB some credit if it deserves it, I mean if it worked for you? I share mine b/c yes, SOME of it did work for me and some did not.

I disclosed which was which. You refuse to do the same.

And if not, if DBing failed you, why not go where other ways or approaches are tried?


Of course T0 should see different opinions and find what is most authentic for her.

But look at how YOU instruct her later...


I told you what I highly recommend.. As a man.. I know these things....If I were you, I would listen to what a man thinks and knows about men in these situations....

Of course, you are free to choose what you do. I don't want to be seen as arrogant. My concern is that sometimes on these threads there is too much advice from too many people and all it does is muddy the water for the person seeking it.

That's why I am telling you that you can't take what I am telling you and mix it with something else.

[/quote]

Yeah T0, only take his advice. WE aren't professionals.

WE might muddy the waters by telling you our own experiences and how we relate to yours...OR by referring to the books and philosophy underlying the whole approach here.

T0, I've said it before and I'll say it again. DB coaching is worth the money. (Divorce surely costs more, and that's just counting the financial piece).

It can't hurt and you'd then be getting the professional advice you need. Heck, we all needed it at some point.

Of the many things I did to work on myself and help restore my marriage, the single thing I know I could not do without, was my DB coach. She was a Godsend and I mean that, literally.

Good Luck T0, seriously.

((( )))