Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6

[HPoirot]

You have been growing a lot, and are seeing the results of you self improvement. Your are listening and following advice from others.

I hope things will get better for you. Life is hard, but we have a choice to make it at least enjoyable. Keep the hard work.

Hello Pink. Thank you so much for your post. I needed words like your today and you've really lifted me up. I am choosing to make today enjoyable and productive. I do hope I'm getting the advice right. I'm going to write again my understanding of the advice I've received in a later post so I can refocus and hopefully be of help to anyone in my sitch.

Thank you again Pink.

[HPoirot]

DB Coach Chuck recommended against going completely dark and suggested improving the communication we do have, validating her friendly communications on her feelings, and along with the already recommended consistently friendly and prompt and polite approach.

If this is what he recommends then why did you write this:

I was friendly but brief the whole time. No anger. Though, after I hung up the phone, I felt irritation that she keeps calling for non emergencies.

Then, almost immediately, she calls again. I reacted from my irritation and didn't answer. She didn't leave a VM.

So she called looking for a conversation and then wanted to talk more. This after her screaming on Friday. Again, like Sandi was saying, she wants conversation.

If she wants to talk, why do not listen and why does it irritate you all the time? She is calling you for non emergencies b/c she is your W and wants to talk to you. She is clearly a talker, and someone who processes out loud to get to conclusion. It would be really easy for you to listen to her and validate her given the number of times she reaches out. Who cares that she screamed on Friday...she is trying, reaching out to you and allowing you not to go dark. You have to improve communication per the coach.

Hello Happy. I'm cutting back on talking... being there for her emotionally... b/c she is continuing an A. It wouldn't make sense for me to be overly open and available to her under the circumstances.

OTOH... you're right she is a talker and she is trying to connect. She asks to hear my feelings gets upset when I don't communicate. I understand it's her need to feel in control and feel less guilt but does that help me?

So I do struggle here.

Before I knew the extent of her A, but after BD, I made a great effort to listen to her. We had great conversations and it seemed to me we connected a little during that time.

All the while, though, she was gaslighting me and being extremely disrespectful to me with the way she continued her A. A big part of my turning around my sitch was showing her I would not tolerate her disrespect. She freaked out in a panic when I did.

So, other than the going dark and being brief and polite... I'm not sure how much re-connecting I should attempt right now if any. It makes sense for me to be angry and distant and at the same time I have to be an adult and respectful about it.

I'm not sure how allowing her to open up to me now gets her to start looking at me as her husband again.

Oh and on the irritation... I have told her while she is in her A, I will only accept emergency phone calls related to our son. She knows this yet still calls and texts daily. I'm dealing with the irritation better and do not feel sure if I should continue to let her calls go to VM and respond later if at all... or to start taking her calls, be polite and brief, and be done to keep our communication open and civil.

[sandi2]

HP, IMHO, going dark means when a couple never sees each other nor communicates, which is almost impossible if you co-parent. Sometimes, trying to give the illusion of being dark may appear to be something entirely different to her. Just something to consider, if you run out of anything to think about.

I do believe there are times to pull back or not engage, but I wouldn't call it going dark.

[Sotto]

Maybe dim and dimmer?

[HPoirot]

Hello Sandi and toots.

Yes I see going dark may be the wrong term in my case. So going dim.

I'm just going by this from Wonka...

1) No more talks (like the latest text exchange)
2) No more responding to texts UNLESS it involves S11
3) When you have S11, W must respect your time and not blow up your phone
4) When W has S11, get out of the house and do something for you
5) Join Meet Up groups
6) Put a stop to W using S11's phone to get through to you immediately when she does it
7) Focus on logistics on S11 related matters only
8) Be cordial when responding to W's texts or emails..short and on topic

That's all I'm focusing on doing. I know I'll be doing this for many months.

What DB Coach Chuck suggested was to do more... to engage her more as she likes to talk. To allow some friendship to come back as she seems to want. To listen to her emotions and mirror them.

I just don't know if this is the time to allow that. With her call yesterday, I could have engaged more as she did want to talk. The last time I called her and she talked a lot about S12 saying he was depressed... she said it meant a lot to her to talk and hoped we could keep doing it.

I think Sandi that your post here says it best...

I believe when a couple separates, there needs to be a period of time where they should avoid contact with each other. It is so easy to trigger something during a quick exchange, texting, etc. They need that space from each other to regroup and calm down where they feel a bit more balanced in their emotional equilibrium.

This is why I do not agree with the idea of getting all buddy-buddy. How could it be genuine? IMO, she needs to know he is not happy about what she has done to the family, and frankly, he is not interested in being her friend. He is done! That is the only message that will cause her to rethink her actions.

The WAW and LBH should be civil, and that is all, during this adjustment period. Otherwise, the LBH will be putting all this unnecessary pressure on himself......just like HP is doing now. He should not be concerned now she feels about him GAL. It is ludicrous! He left that stuff behind him......or should have.

My problem may be... despite my anger or maybe b/c of it... she knows I'm not done. I understand only time and me really letting go could change that. With these contacts... how do I show that I've let go?

In any case... I just want to settle into a consistent approach and just keep doing it to reduce the drama and get out of her way.

[sandi2]

Once you really are able to let go, you won't worry about showing her. She will be able to tell.

I don't know if you have any other relationships you can compare, but maybe in the past when you broke up with a girlfriend and you knew when you really let it go. It no longer rules your life. You will always have a special place in your heart for your W, but it won't be the fury and frustration you experience now. You will be able to separate your life and emotions from being entangled with her drama. Her interactions with you or S12 will not be the dictator it seems to be at the moment.

When a person has inner peace, we seem to be able to sense it.....don't you agree? Just as she is able to know when you are silently angry, she will know when you are at peace.
If I had to use one word to describe how you would feel when you lay that rope down, it would be "peace".

[NewB3]

Hpoirot,
This last page has so many helpful things in it. I had a WAW set on Divorce. She felt that was the answer to her depression (I feel..lost herself in the marriage/child). She may still feel that way. I tried DB and it upset her, because I was not listening to what she wanted. I was not "hearing her". She wanted a D.
Now, I am emotionally drained and try to also have no communication unless it is about S4. I avoid chit chat, but am polite and answer her when she asks questions, though vaguely. I ask her nothing personal, yet she volunteers information. I smile and am polite. I am "dark" other than that. I try to be empathetic when she is upset about parenting issues, yet offer her no advice. I simply lead, as she lets me.
I am post divorce (4 months), post moving out (3 months), post holiday time together (family in town/dinners/birthdays). Now is time to focus on me and not let her have such control over my emotions. How can do you fully detach emotionally? Sandi2?

Sandi2, This is just what I needed/AGAIN today.
"I believe when a couple separates, there needs to be a period of time where they should avoid contact with each other. It is so easy to trigger something during a quick exchange, texting, etc. They need that space from each other to regroup and calm down where they feel a bit more balanced in their emotional equilibrium.

This is why I do not agree with the idea of getting all buddy-buddy. How could it be genuine? IMO, she needs to know he is not happy about what she has done to the family, and frankly, he is not interested in being her friend. He is done! That is the only message that will cause her to rethink her actions.

The WAW and LBH should be civil, and that is all, during this adjustment period. Otherwise, the LBH will be putting all this unnecessary pressure on himself......just like HP is doing now. He should not be concerned now she feels about him GAL. It is ludicrous! He left that stuff behind him......or should have."


I guess letting her go is scary. I feel I will lose her for good. That is what keeps me tangled. I know she sees my hurt/frustration and knows she caused all this stuff for me, S4, and herself. How do I get to her without letting go? Better yet, how do I let go in order to get to her?

[HPoirot]

Journaling...

Hopefully interactions with W are getting boring...

Today was icy in my city. Got a call early this morning from S12's school emergency system saying the opening today would be delayed. Immediately got a text from W asking if I got a call about the delay and repeating the information. I don't respond and go back to sleep.

Later... get a text from W saying her morning was flexible and asking if I needed her to drive S12 to school. I don't answer immediately. I figure, if I did, I would contact her and ask.

30 minutes later... she calls. I let it go to VM. She immediately calls again.

I text her back... "Good morning W. No ride needed thanks."

She replies... "Hi HP. OK. Thanks."

After I drop off S12 W texts and asks if she can pick up s12 after school, take him for a snack, and bring him back to the condo.

45 minutes later I reply... "Hello W. That's fine."

She replies 30 minutes later... "OK. Thanks."

So keeping it to just the facts.

She's offered to drive S12 to and from school more often in return for more nights for S12 in the condo. She has not changed the schedule again yet so we'll see.

Adjusting my attitude when I get a text from W from "what the hell does she want now" to "OK a text."

She will call if I don't answer her texts so I'll be more prompt... 15 minutes for a reply.

This all seems ridiculous.

[Vanilla]

Dearest HP,

It just seems like BAU to me. We all schedule stuff and W seems like she is trying to be helpful here.

I left my phone at home this morning, H kindly brought it in for me, so thank you H. Pleasant, normal, ordinary stuff.

Routine. I respond promptly to texts and I offer pleasantries. Tonight I may get spew, so may need to STFU and later enforce the boundary. Be prompt, civil and a little warmth, 80% return.

You will thank yourself for it. Just ignore motives and queries take this at face value. Think sugar and nice and easy.

Sweetness and light
Vanilla

[NewB3]

Nice to know I am not the only method/rule making guy here. I do the same thing with texts/VM.

If I reply right away, it feels like pursuit to me. I prefer to be "busy" (unless emergency) and get to it when I can. No priority other than kids. WAW can wait her turn as she chose to not be #1 anymore.