The two of you still can't get on the same page. As I mentioned before, you expect him to feel sorry for the things he does and he doesn't know what that means. Likewise, he says he has needs that you don't seem to understand. Both of you are unwilling to give up that control.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Hey Elsa, Sorry you are in a rough spot lately. It's a challenging dynamic.
Just a couple of thoughts. Has your H read 5LL or have you guys talked about the concepts? Is it entirely clear to him that you feel unloved when he doesn't show you affection? I'm ashamed to say, for me personally, it took seeing these concepts written down in a book (rather than my H saying it) to understand that his needs truly are different from mine.
MrBond's comments above make me think that you might also get something from reading NVC (Rosenburg). Can you work on improving your communication such that you tell H what you specifically need? e.g. "H, when you do [X], it makes be feel [Y]. I'd love it if you would do [Z]." [X] should be an observation (fact), not a judgement or diagnosis. When making a request for [Z] it should not be viewed as a demand; you shouldn't expect him to go through with it, just give him the option to. There are some good videos on Youtube on how to practice non-violent communication if you don't want to read the book.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Thanks, guys. I will come back later and address your specific points. But first, I need to share a quick update.
I feel like we have hit rock bottom. After MC on Monday, he said he would call me last night at 6pm so that we could talk some more. I was feeling down on Monday night and sent him a text asking if we could talk for a few minutes. He begged off but was really sweet about it -- he told me that he was sorry he couldn't meet my needs but he loved me and he knows I'm trying. This was all via text message but I felt good about where we were headed. So good, in fact, that I almost asked him NOT to call me last night, but I didn't. I still wanted to see what he had to say about the The Things.
So last night we're maybe 15 minutes into the conversation and H says, "You're just saying the same things over and over again. Everything is conflict. I can't do this anymore. How do I tell you I want to be done? This isn't the heat of the moment, this is me telling you I don't want to do this anymore. I need you to hear me because later I don't want you to say that you didn't know."
(Holy cow -- as I type that out I realize that I may have misinterpreted what he meant AGAIN. I took "done" to mean "done with the R" but now I think he meant "done with the conflict" in way that might lead to him being done with the R. That actually makes so much more sense given how the rest of the conversation went.)
I asked him something like, "Why did you send me those texts last night? You seemed to be much more positive and now 15 minutes into a conversation you're telling me you're done?" He said, "Because I was hopeful. I thought this conversation might be different."
Is it possible that we're having more conflict because we both have hope and expectations again?
I don't how we got past the "I'm done" part of the conversation, but we talked for another 30 minutes or so. He told me that he needs things to improve soon. I said that I do too. He said that he wants to spend more time with me without fighting. I asked if we could be affectionate and have sex, and he said we could make those things a priority. Then he had to go (legitimately, he was picking up D7) and I said I would text him about when we could get together. I got off the phone and sobbed.
We texted a little bit later in the evening. I said that I was really raw. He said, "Let's get together on Thursday and have fun. If you still feel unsettled about tonight, we can talk about it at another time. But I think we need to eliminate non-positive interactions right now." I asked him if he could tell me that he isn't giving up and he is going to fight for us, and he wrote back that he wasn't giving up and he will fight. We both said thank you for trying, ILY, and good night.
Today is the worst day I have had in a long time. I truly feel like BD all over again. Someone come whack me with a 2x4 and tell me not to be so negative.
Just a thought...sometimes we can "over think" things....if H agrees to go out...try to just have fun and stop talking about "things"....think about it. Were you first days...months filled with heart heavy conversation...? Be that person/those people for an evening. Act "as-if" you are out with someone you enjoy and are excited to be with for the evening. Just enjoy yourselves if you go out. My 2 cents....
me: 47, W:49 M 16.5 years T 17 years Three kids - D17,D14, S13 Heart 2 heart about M 11/8/13 Bomb drop 11/29/13 W moved out 12/5/13 I Retained L 2/20/14 D filed 3/17/14
I think I am over-thinking. I think I need to not get so hung up on the words he is saying but look at his actions. He is being more affectionate. Twice in the past week we have met for "cuddle time." He tells me that is the person he wants to be, he just needs some time for his feelings to catch up with his actions. I think I need to give him some room to be that person and stop pressuring him.
Sigh. This is so hard.
Fortunately, I'm going to be very busy tonight/tomorrow. I'm starting a new class tonight and teaching my favorite topic. Tomorrow morning I have a 3 hour client meeting and then a CLE. There won't be much time in there to be lonely/upset/dwell on the R.
me: 47, W:49 M 16.5 years T 17 years Three kids - D17,D14, S13 Heart 2 heart about M 11/8/13 Bomb drop 11/29/13 W moved out 12/5/13 I Retained L 2/20/14 D filed 3/17/14
I asked him something like, "Why did you send me those texts last night? You seemed to be much more positive and now 15 minutes into a conversation you're telling me you're done?"
...
He said, "Let's get together on Thursday and have fun. If you still feel unsettled about tonight, we can talk about it at another time. But I think we need to eliminate non-positive interactions right now."
That first bit from you? That's Jackal speak - he's likely to respond defensively rather than with compassion i.e. it fuels conflict. Look into the book by Rosenburg and videos (which use Giraffe and Jackal puppets to explain the ideas). I think you developing some NVC skills could go a long way to eliminating non-positive interactions.
It's great that he's suggesting to go do something fun. He's communicated a need and made a clear request for what to do about it.
Elsa - have a read around these boards. You have a LONG way to go before you're at rock bottom. I appreciate that you feel that way but things could be far far worse. Heck - you have plans to meet up and do something fun. You're not meeting up with a lawyer to draft papers.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
I see this as good news from your H. Take is slow and just have fun. My W and I went back and forth in a very similar situation. She just wanted us to take it easy and relax with all of the R work and talk. We never had any MC, good for you guys.
Just go out and have fun and enjoy the cuddling and sex. Think back to when you were first dating and excited to get to know each other. Try to pull the pressure off.
When I couldn't reign in my pressure it has forced my situation into D proceedings. Just try to relax, be young and have fun.
My W and I were good at the fun part but I got too excited and started applying pressure. Just enjoy in the moment and don't try to force things back to where they once were.
You are no near rock bottom and the fact that your H said he wants to fight for you is very positive.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Ganb8te, I appreciate the feedback. I will check out those videos tomorrow. I am all for anything that I can do to change our interaction pattern.
gogofo, thank you for helping me see the positive in his interactions. A few months ago I was really struggling to trust what he told me, but I'm finding that as time goes on, his words have power again. He must have found a way to show me that he means it without me realizing it.
We ended up have a pleasant email exchange and a brief phone call tonight. The phone call was about a logistical issue but he asked how I was doing and I said much better (not a lie, but not the whole truth, either!). He said that he is "casting a vision" for us and he thinks we're doing it.
We'll see where this goes. I think if I want this to get better I'm going to have to do some more work on myself.
