Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3

[happy1]

I agree with Wonka on the text back--go ahead and send, if you have not done so already

[TLEE86]

HP- first thank you for checking in on my sitch today, really needed the pick me up tonight.

So I just excluded her, took my money, messed with her plan, and made sure I stayed calm and was in the right and looking to protect my son.

I'm still surprised and disappointed in my W that I was able to do it. I can't imagine she's missed so many days with her son.

I hope this helps you. You just have to be the calm and firm, don't react, make sure your intension is to help your kids and yourself, and make sure your W understands that you know she loves her kids and you want to protect your kids love for their mom.

Not too much to say to you tonight except say again that ^^^^ took some huge balls to do, I'm talking buffalo balls (can I say that on this forum?) Took so much strength for you to actually move out and convey to your W that you will not tolerate her on going A. Really happy that you were able to do this. Im sure it is best for S11 as you both have a place to call just your own for now.

[mvg]

HP,

Thanks for replying. Your wife sounds like Mother Theresa compared to the woman I've been living with for the last month. There is zero room for rational thought, and honestly, that's been the case for quite a while.

Did you have a legal parenting plan in place at any point? I'm hoping that once that's in place and we get out of our house and into separate places, (either post D or during the process) that this will be easier.

Your strength is inspirational, keep going.

[HPoirot]

Hello mvg. Sorry to hear about your W. Hope you get free soon.

No legal parenting plan for us. We just started this 2.5 weeks ago. My W keeps threatening a mediator when she feels she's losing control. Just be agreeable and clear in your communications. I agree to let her see S11 as much as she wants though I keep him more nights so far. Despite our screaming, she is respectful in most communications. It took a while of firm boundaries to get there. I only respond to my Ws texts or VM. I usually don't answer her calls. When I do I get in trouble with anger.

Good luck.

[JCred]

Confident, happy, emotionally mature... Going somewhere in life..

Those are qualities that WILL attract women....

I usually don't answer her calls. When I do I get in trouble with anger.

Emotionally mature men can and do answer calls if they prefer to. They are in control of their emotions and anger. Confident and happy. Calls are short, to the point and polite.
Not mean or vindictive...

Not answering her calls for the reasons you give are not helping you or your situation. She can see right through it.
Busy men going somewhere in life that are happy in life don't answer calls because they are extremely busy and don't always have time to answer and talk due to all of their other interests and passions in life. They DO however return calls because it is a mature thing to do.... Big difference in how the woman perceives him versus a man who doesn't answer due to not being able to control his anger...

Just sayin....

[HPoirot]

Journaling...

Getting more used to this now. Woke up thinking "This is what's best for me. Life is good." Used stop thoughts to control my thinking. Slept late. Happy New Year.

Yesterday I texted my W the moving plan to get the furniture out of our old rental house where she is staying. I will come Friday to finish packing. She won't be there. Movers come Sunday to take everything to storage. She will pay her part of everything. Very business like.

After a long while, she replies back that she is stressed with packing and money and cannot help pay for with the move. She needs to buy a car and get an apartment. She asks if I can please pay for the entire move. She also says we need to talk about the car. Suggests I can buy her out of our car as it is paid for. She also asks if I can please pay S11's 2 months outstanding tuition for the month. She finally asks if she can expect some of the security deposit from the old rental to help her get a new place. Made mention that.... "Your expenses are very little since you're in the condo, right?" Repeats that she is stressed.

I go to sleep.

This morning, I reply... "W, understand you're stressed and I'm sure you want to be fair. Here's what we can do..." I tell her the trade in value for our car, repairs needed, amount I've spent on my own, and offer her $400 (generous). I tell her we can apply the $400 to her portion of the move and storage. She can continue to pay her part for storage going forward. I tell her I paid 1 month tuition payment as agreed, reminded her to use her end of year bonus to pay the outstanding 2 months as agreed, and that she would pay her portion of the monthly tuition going forward as agreed. Also said her portion of the security deposit, less than half, is of course hers. I ask, "How does that sound to you?"

As I'm about to send the text, calls me. I let it go to VM.

She then calls S11. S11 says mom wants to talk.

I take the phone and say... "Hey W. Listen... I've just sent you a ext answering your questions. Please don't call me on S11's phone. I'm sure you agree it's not fair to S11?"

She agrees.

"OK... Then send me a text or a VM when you want to reach me and I will get back to you when I can. OK? Thanks W." Hang up.

I did speak a little fast from irritation. Getting better at that.

She text replies later... "That is fair."

She then wanted to know when she could pick up S11... Does 10am work? I had said 4pm before. I said I wanted to do something with S11 after work. 3pm then? She said, it's her day and she would like him at 10am. I said he'll be ready at 10.

I also then texted her to please put the car insurance in my name and I will take her off the plan. No answer on that yet.

S11 didn't like leaving at 10am at all. I said... "I know son. Talk about that with your mom" and sent him down the elevator.

So getting better at answering. Only felt a little emotional. Did not give her a break on money. When S11 gets back, I'll get her car keys. No big deal.

I've read it's not good talk on the phone in LRT/Consequences stage as I proved with the terrible screaming R talk last time. She knows I'm just ignoring her calls, though, which I don't feel is very strong action from me long term. This is maybe the 6th time I've told her just leave me a VM or text but she keeps poking b/c I don't respond fast enough for her. She'll get used to it.

Will start real GAL next week then. Crossfit and Tango lessons.

Onward.

[LITB]

Nicely done HP. You did well with your interaction with your W. Looks like you have this down.

[Wonka]

HP,

Crossfit and Tango sound really cool! Lat week, I watched the Crossfit World Championship competition on ESPN.....absorbing to watch. Extremely fit and athletic people.

I've read it's not good talk on the phone in LRT/Consequences stage as I proved with the terrible screaming R talk last time. She knows I'm just ignoring her calls, though, which I don't feel is very strong action from me long term. This is maybe the 6th time I've told her just leave me a VM or text but she keeps poking b/c I don't respond fast enough for her. She'll get used to it.

It is okay to talk on the phone while in LRT on logistics as LONG as you are able to keep your emotions in check. I agree that it is important to push back on W using s11's phone to reach you. It's not right to put a kid in the middle of this. There will come a time when you'll be able to talk with W on the phone without losing your self-control and end the call early.

Just wondering why you cannot switch the car insurance under your name yourself? Is this something you can do with a phone call to the ins. folks?

[TSquared2]

She knows I'm just ignoring her calls, though, which I don't feel is very strong action from me long term.

Are you ignoring her calls, or just putting her communications in the proper priority in your life right now?

Small, but important difference.

The main thing is to be prompt with anything related to S11, otherwise the rest can wait usually, imo.

[25yearsmlc]

Just a question... I've said before I've read sitches here where the LBS does spend time with the wayward WAS. Around kids mostly. Just a time to create a positive interaction. Painful to do... no expectations. Jan just did that successfully.

I have another opportunity to do this. W just came to pick up S11. I sent him down... did not see her.

She then texts... "Hey... any chance we can do lunch together for S11's birthday?"

So... my goal is to create a new, stronger more happier me while maybe creating a new M with my W. Each of us new better people in a new M as we did discuss in one of our R talks long ago.

Okay I get this^^ totally. What I don't get is the pitch darkness UNLESS it's a temporary thing you are doing bc you cannot yet detach well enough. If that is it, then I can buy into that and hope that you won't take too terribly long to get on your feet emotionally. B/c you cannot do the above^^^ by ignoring her texts and avoiding her. (I mean, you ARE avoiding her so, She has a point).

Right now, I've gone pitch dark. Only responding to her S11 messages.

She has called me a mofo/avoider and I called her a F*cking B!tch as recently as a few days ago.

She would be happiest if I was just friendly nice guy/BFF accepting her A and her choices like good TV husbands do.

WELL, What do you see as your alternative? You think the only options are avoiding her completely, or "accepting her A"....there are other alternatives.

I mean, it's one thing to need time to heal and let the dust settle but your anger is not helping your path to growth, or is it?

The easy answer, as I am pitch black dark, is to ignore this request. I can't be friends with her while she's behaving this way. I also let her feel the consequences of her actions.

She'll feel the consequences a lot more if you are an upbeat, great catch, around her.

B/c she is making choices that mean you, the great dad/h that you are, are NOT available to her. But being a guy she sees as petty and small, still avoiding conflict b/c he's not quite up to it, OR b/c he's trying to punish her, isn't going to attract her back either.

See, the line between self respect/preservation AND false pride b/c of a wounded ego, can be a shifting blurry line but it's there and you have to find it.

Don't let anger or any emotions steer your course. Act in accordance with your goal stated above, NOT how you feel at the moment.

Make sense?


But accepting her wishes and feelings is important too right? It seems not at this point. She knows exactly how I feel. She won't act like my W... she doesn't get me at all. We're not friends. She gave me his birthday and S11 knows that.


How do you think you sound here^^? Anything punitive sounding? Or small, or what? How do you think SHE sees you when you act this way? No, it's NOT the determinative factor in your choices but it should be A factor b/c if your goal is a recon, then her perceptions matter.

Heal yourself first. I get that. I totally do. But don't get stuck in victimhood, which is easy to do and it requires you staying the course of your own growth.

All too often a LBS comes here to work on themselves as they are finally seeing their flaws as spouses in a new, humbling light. It's hard to work on themselves but they believe in the "Cause" and know they will benefit from the work.

THEN they learn of an A and suddenly, they don't need to work on themselves, but it's all about the affair and the OP.

Say goodbye self improvement, and hello self righteousness.

Try very hard to avoid this^^.

I get stuck here. After everything I've done... she keeps saying I'm not acting like and adult and I'm the avoider b/c I don't respond to her, don't see her, and don't accept her invitations to hang out together as a family. Though I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to do... that bothers me.



---b/c she has a point, don't you think?

You STATE that your own goal is to have pleasant enough interactions and to build on those, with time.
That is a smart short term goal (i.e. to have a conflict free experience with your son and wife, like say, a LUNCH and no fighting during that one hour event.)
Then you build on those, so that they are either more frequent and or last longer.

The more she sees that you can be peaceful and harmonious, that there is a NEW IMPROVED YOU, the more you give her to miss when she's not with you and son.


But you are in fact avoiding ALL contact w/her unless it has to do with s11 and even that, you are barely responding to.

See, She doesn't know this is a temporary aid you are using to get stabilized and healthy enough to be around her without screaming or crying.

You have to tell her something along the lines of "Right now I need to reduce contact with you, so I can move forward" and leave it at that.

But please, Stop fearing that your being kind and civil to her, somehow means she's taking advantage of you. It's the most common mistake I see around here. And it's not smart OR effective. IT does not work. Why? BECAUSE

Being a jerk to her - only confirms her choice to leave you, and choose OM.

Being miserable to or around her, does NOT "prove" how much you loved her or how badly she has hurt you. It just makes it a lot easier to NOT be around you.


There will be times you will have to Suck it up and be calm around her, AND stop all the punishing games. Avoid her as long as you must, but don't be petulant about it.


This is a self preservation tactic only. Anything else "achieved" by you not ever responding to her, is probably not helping your cause, in my opinion.


Hell.. why would she even ask this again? It is the same as before... for her guilt and so she can have happy family and her dreams. Making me the bad guy b/c I'm not tolerating her truth.

Well, aside from more massive mind reading on your end,^^^ ALL of which is negative, btw, (SIGH)

I think she is reaching out to do damage control for your son, which is not "because she wants to feel less guilty" ---so much as b/c she loves her son, too. Why wouldn't she want things to be easier for him??

ALSO, just b/c she doesn't want the WAR to escalate or continue, that is not about assuaging her guilt. Do You think she feels ' GUILT' b/c you won't engage w/her?

I don't think she feels any "guilt" whatsoever, when you avoid her.

I think she sees you as weak, punitive, and small. I think she feels more correct in her present choice to leave the m and seek out OMs.

(Please don't be offended by that ^^comment, b/c I am saying what I think SHE sees your behavior as reflecting.
I know it's a self preservation mode, or at least I hope that's all it is. B/c as a long term approach - it will NOT lead to a reconciliation)

FWIW, I don't share much of starsky's approach here, and we part ways on this issue. I follow the div busting approach as much as I can. But we all share in the core belief that you should do what works.

So I'll start answering these. I think Starsky has something better than "No thank you W."

Do I keep ignoring or denying these pokes from her, keep hitting her with truth darts, or do I just go and fake it. I want to stop pushing her away. I don't want to be at all like the hurt guy anymore.

I'm thinking... "No W... I already have plans for lunch with S11. Thanks." No truth dart. Just truth.

How's that?

Your view is so biased here that it's hard to assess her behavior objectively. But for instance, I don't see her reaching out as a "poke"...

I think As a temporary measure, the avoidance is what you seem to need. It IS avoidance, ftr. But Do what you need to do for now.

I personally dislike the term "truth dart" b/c the emphasis usually ends up being on the "dart" part and is a thinly veiled insult that is used by bitter LBSers, b/c the truth itself is sufficient in my opinion.

To quote my DB coach on this--

"Life will show them the consequences of their choices. It's Not a spouse's job to do that, or to 'teach a lesson' to a spouse. Life will teach them the lessons."

So you don't have to take that "Duty" on anymore, okay?

But you're right that it won't make you look UNLike the hurt guy...so figure out how long it'll be before you can handle time with her.

THEN, Build on small things.

When she picks up your son, see it as a SHORT but real opportunity to show the new improved self confident YOU,

NOT the tortured soul in pain h that she left -- but a guy who has a life she'd want to share in...it's just 3 minutes of your life. Dress for it, wear some NEW different cologne and look slightly hurried but happy/excited, like you have places to go as soon as she's out of sight...

You can make an impression in that time, and happily see your son off with her (which is a lot better for him btw, than staying inside and sending him out alone).

Wave and say "have a good time!" and for all it's worth, act as if YOU KNOW YOU are going to have a good time doing your new mystery thing too. And then, make that true.

GAL and see each time apart from your son, as the opportunity you never had before, to explore new things you've wanted to explore.

Any new hobbies? Classes? Places or topics to explore? Groups, clubs or teams to join? Chances to coach or volunteer?

Can you make yourself join something THIS month? That would be great.

I don't know how to detach without GAL. So start with GAL for reals, and not a lot of it needs to involve your son.

Some of this has to be pushing you out into areas you are new to, to stretch and grow and meet new people who do not know your situation. Get your mind off things.

Heal...get your strength up, and take forward steps...

make sense?