Mozza (6) + List of success stories

[LITB]

Mozza,

Just reading up on some of your sitch/thread. I read the email from your W sent you. It takes a lot of time for someone to develop such negative feelings. It will take plenty of time for her perspective to change.

Take the things that hit home, and begin changing them. Not everything your W says is all on you. However, a lot of identifying and addressing the issues is the way to change her perspective. Then remain consistent. Remember, these changes are for you.

[jim0987]

Hi Mozza,

I'm curious. can you remember how you responded to that email from your Wife?

In terms of your 180s i'm starting to realise that some emotions can pervade all aspects of our lives regardless of how well we think we are controlling them. If you are making 180s that affect how you are then this will leak out in hundreds of tiny and almost imperceptible and noticeable ways.

yes some of the 180s you cant show her, but there are ways she will sense some of them and she will see you interact with your daughters so she might observe them as well

[Mozza]

LITB: I agree: it will take time to undo this. It's only been three months since she left. She doesn't say much about what bothers her in this email, apart from the criticism, but she did in another email in April and I'll return to it to parse it further.

I'm curious. can you remember how you responded to that email from your Wife?

Good question. I didn't reply in writing -- I was at an amusement park with D6, which might explain also why I glossed over important parts of the email. When I got home, we agreed to talk when the kids were in bed. I then suggested that we try to refill the love tanks (didn't know about the concept back then) by saying things we liked about each other. It had a positive impact that night in that, for once, we left the conversation feeling better about each other. But we never went back to the important topics. In a way, you can say I never replied to this email, which only adds to my sense of guilt.

[Mozza]

Christmas eve is the big party around here and it went well. I was very happy to have the kids and they enjoyed their evening, going to bed past 1 am.

Today, I put them on Skype to talk to their mom. I didn't get into the picture, though my hands and voice appeared a couple of times. My W called on my parents to come in the picture and they went. The kids asked about OM. I got in the picture as she was waving goodbye and wishing a happy new year, but I'm not even sure she saw me.

I don't know if this was the right thing to do, but who cares. She's probably showering OM with emails, calls and texts saying how much she misses and loves him at the moment. Really, what does it matter what I did in this video call? It doesn't.

Some of you have complex interactions with your WAS but mine are very limited despite the kids, in part because of my lack of reciprocity when she contacts me. It seems that I bet the house on time and patience because there's no other bet.

[gan]

Hi Mozza,

Responding the to request for a woman's perspective. It's hard to directly answer your question about whether a woman would return to a M when she felt like that. We are all here because we hope our W/H will change their mind. So I want the answer to be a big fat YES! For you, me, all of us.

The letter is hard to read - I'm sure it breaks your heart now to know that she was in so much pain. I'm with Wonka though, there's a lot that she's responsible for that she doesn't acknowledge. Based on her actions with the video I think she has probably relied on other-validation rather than self-validation for a lot of her life in order to feel good about herself. She's the victim in that letter, and only part of that relates to you. Actually - at one month pre BD - I think this was part of the WAS script, trying to pin things on you and make you feel bad. Many of us could have received that letter.

Great that you've stopped the criticism.

The other line that stands out to me is the one about her need to be understood and reference to the fact that you don't. That's a cue to you to develop your active listening skills and validate, validate, validate. Not just while you are DBing, but always.

Words of affirmation is one of my LL. I think this is one LL that doesn't conflict with DB approaches because you can still do all this while showing you are moving on with your life, with or without her. Find opportunities to praise her, to say things that make her feel good about herself (in a sincere way of course). Note the link between this LL and my comment about other-validation above, also the quick move to OM; she feels good about herself when other people make her feel that way. It doesn't have to be over the top. Might be as simple as verbally acknowledging that she is competent at something, that you know she can handle something because she is good at it etc. might feel odd to you, but on this side of it I can tell you it feels GOOD! Being kind to her also fills her tank (as you noticed) and so I agree that a hardline approach is probably going to work at cross purposes in your situation.

Hope this helps.

[Mozza]

Thanks a lot, ganb8te. I really appreciate you took the time to give me your perspective. As you can imagine, I've been thinking a lot about that email in the last few days.

I find it interesting that several people have noted that she's responsible for some of her situation. I tend to take a lot of responsibility for how she feels and it has been part of our dynamic. I'm thinking that perhaps this separation is a necessary step for her to see who she is without me, problems included, and coming back more in charge of her feelings. I certainly know I'm learning a lot in her absence about how I make other people feel.

It's interesting you think I should validate her and avoid the hardline approach. I've done so some times since DB and it seems to do us both good. I'm just puzzled because she's in a R with OM and I've been told that I give her my blessing by acting nice with her, that I cannot "nice her back" in the M. This contradiction is not entirely resolved for me.

Again, thanks a lot.

[LisaB]

Hi Mozza,

I really like this advice from Ganb8te! One of my LL is words of affirmation too and I completely agree. Even when I am angry at WAH if he really says something positive about me I feel great. It has to be genuine though and not just flattery.

Maybe think of a list of things you could affirm or compliment and keep them on the backburner for when they are appropriate.

I know it is confusing in light of the other aspect of this where she is with OM and you need to take a hard line. Here's how I would envision it: she drops the kids off and you are impressed with something about how she handled them. Let's say the kids are very well dressed, or she packed nice lunches for them, or I have no idea but you get the picture. You can validate her by saying "wow you did such a nice job with..." I would not say "wow you look beautiful!" (I'm sure she would like to hear that but I think that crosses the line when she is with OM and all that) In other words, compliment her on friend like things, not on wife like things. Don't do it too much but once in a while is good.

Moving backwards...to social media. Oh Mozza, stop looking at her facebook!!!!! It is a horrible thing to do to yourself. I know how hard it is to stop, but I did it and so can you. Here is what you can try.

First of all, go to her page and stop "following" her. She will have no idea but you won't see her updates anymore in your news feed. And do this for anyone else you know in common who might share information about her. You won't be missing anything. You can still be "friends" you can still see her page anytime. But here is my advice: don't look!

How I did it was that I told myself I would not look at WAH's facebook page (or OW or their twitter or instagram etc etc) for a week. I felt soooooo much better. I kept doing it for another week. Then I slipped and looked at their pages. Felt crappy. Remembered that it only hurts me and doesn't help me. Stopped looking again. Now I haven't looked in a month. Yes the temptation is there. Even writing this now I want to go look. But it only HURTS ME. Stop for a day, stop for a week, whatever you can do. And then see how much better you feel not having to look at it in your face!

Regarding your response about the video I think you did perfectly. However, I would also not ask about the party.

That's what I did. She called me on Friday and her first question (?!) was whether I watched the video. I said I hadn't gotten to it yet. Unfortunately, I then asked "Was it a good party?" to move the conversation along, so I got an earful about how much of what she drank (wine and sake), how many of her colleagues threw up (4) and how late she came home (3:30 am).

My friend, I see so many similarities with our situations. To make conversation I asked WAH about one of his work parties and got almost the exact same response you did...how much he drank, how his coworkers threw up and how sick he felt the next day. Seriously.

So here is something I have been doing, not exactly on purpose to be dismissive but mostly because I don't want to know what he is up to and hear about his OWs and his fun party life. I never ask "how was..." or "what did you do this weekend?" It makes conversation so awkward sometimes not to ask so I mainly try to talk about my own GAL and PMA. So maybe you could have said something like:
she: did you see the video
you: nope, no time yet
she: ....
you: ....
awkward
you: yesterday I went skydiving and the day before that I went skiing on Mount Kilimanjaro

Just a joke but you get the idea. Probably the best thing is to say less but if you have to talk say something about you GAL, not in a bragging way though. You get the idea.

Mozza, keep your head up! You are doing well, you just need to keep working on yourself, your 180s and GAL and letting her do her thing and work through her issues on her own. Stop watching her and asking her about it.

Hugs, Lisa

[Sotto]

Hi Lisa

That's good advice, thanks for sharing it. I don't have the FB problem, but I do have the WAS and OW problem!

Toots x

[LisaB]

Oh and because I didn't write a long enough novel above I also wanted to add something about the other-validation stuff Ganb8te mentioned and what you discussed about continuing to be nice to her.

My H is the same. He is looking for external validation and that is why he is trying to conquer as many OWs as possible and searching for it in his party lifestyle. And yet coming back to me for security, comfort and validation too.

And like you I could tell it helped both of us to have a nice fun friendly relationship so I kept doing it.

Guess what Mozza? He still kept looking for OWs and trying to talk to me daily. No.

Indeed she wants affirmation and friendship from you. But you have to do the tricky thing and show her you CAN do it but you choose not to because she is not your wife right now. She is someone else's girlfriend. You don't validate and affirm someone else's girlfriend, right?

It's tricky. Let's brainstorm this together?

I'll shut up now...

[Mozza]

Thank you so much LisaB for taking the time!

I've been using Words of Affirmation with W, validating her and never criticizing. I'd encourage her with her difficulties at work, tell her she can do it, etc. I've done the same when she called because she had difficulties with the kids. I'll focus on the "friends things" as you suggested. I've to say that the opportunities are few and far in between now, as our communications become rarer. Apparently, the goal is to make her miss me.

I'll soon tell the story of how I dumped my previous GF for my (then future) W, but one thing I can immediately say is that I didn't have a care in the world for my ex-GF when I was in love with W. I feel I'm on the receiving end of this, although my W does communicate way more with me then I did my ex-GF did. Basically, it would never contact her, except for practical stuff. It doesn't give me hope of a R because it reminds me how much I had moved on, much like my W has now.

First of all, go to her page and stop "following" her.

I'VE DONE IT! It' a big deal: I've been trying to do this for weeks or months. I only did it though because I know I can always go back and see her updates (and I can revert it...). But at least, I'll have to make an effort and I won't have the anxiety of seeing her when scrolling through my FB feed. I don't have the nerves to do it with Instagram because her account is protected so I'd lose access for good. Weak me.

Probably the best thing is to say less but if you have to talk say something about you GAL, not in a bragging way though. wink You get the idea.

Thanks for the advice. I never ask questions and this time I asked just to move the conversation along but I immediately regretted it. At the same time, I feel like I gathered intelligence about where she stands, which is exactly at the same place as when she left ("partyyyy!"). I'd never talk about my GAL though, it's not DB. She has to discover it herself otherwise it looks like I've done it for her. I was happy when the kids told her how I'm working out every day.