Jim0987 #8 - A bit clearer on the rebuild

[MCS]

Jim,

Seems like the attitude of our wives to us is similar. I can tell you to definitely try and get the agreement as close to what you need as possible. I've found with our limited communication, we have entered at times into what I call an "arms race." Basically, mind reading based on a series of reactive decisions based on the others initial decision. Then things escalate to a place that require one of us to hunker down and give a little. Definitely not recommended and W and I talked about it the last MC (counseling) so hopefully we don't have that anymore.

[jim0987]

Ah marriage counseling. My wife refuses. She refused when we had our major blow up a few years ago because she 'was afraid what I would say'. Now 'there is no point because there is no love to work with'

Its definitely going to be an interesting period trying to get this sorted.

[LoveMyW]

Best of luck with it all jim..

[jim0987]

Please forgive a moment of petulant outrage.

For the last 3 years my wife has always refused to get babysitters or leave the kids with someone so that we could do something as a couple. This morning my D3 tells me she was left all weekend with granny while mummy went to 'play with friends'

I'm upset by this for the following reasons
1 resentment that she wouldn't do that with me
2 jealousy that she is in a R with someone else
3 anger that I didn't see the kids only for her to then not spend any time with them

These are her decisions and the hurt I feel is mine. I can choose not to be hurt by this and instead reflect that this is just more evidence that my wife was not a good partner when with me.

Wish it was that easy

My narrative wants to say its proof that I was so awful that she felt she couldn't do this stuff but I need to stop that kind of thinking. Just struggling to think of an alternative narrative that isn't negative towards me, my wife or both.

Negative narratives is something I want to get better at stopping/countering

[Vanilla]

Jim

The most important reason is no 3.


Vanilla

[edz]

Hi Jim

I know exactly what you mean on the the doing things as a couple, I had exactly the same situation with my W. I'd suggest let's go out and I'd get back what about S?

Mysteriously her Mum would never be free *that* day (W of course hadn't checked) and any suggestions on babysitting got knocked down straight away. If we were doing anything it had to be all of us. This is one of the root causes of my relationship with s being so awful (displaced frustration at w never setting time aside for our relationship) and also one of the reasons that I believe brought us to this point.

As to counselling same deal as you, W didn't want to know back in July as she said nope this is what she wanted and was happy at her mothers, definitely the right decision - this lasted a month before she was in tears at her situation.

I suggested counselling again in August/September when we were in "I think I may want to move back but I'm not sure if I just want to get away from my mum" time (I guess she just wanted to get away from her mum then) and she said it sounded like an idea, I got as far as discussing going as a family but of course it then just petered out as soon as I got dates and times so I just went to my own session for me.

I know we have different scenarios but a lot of the WAS playbook sure does track on all of our experiences it seems (this is indeed covered in the books).

I agree with your thoughts on negativity though try to work toward minimising them, in the above cases it's not necessarily true that you were awful and that was the cause but, and here I'm talking about my sitch, that communications weren't working at the time.

As an example from my r: I'd say 'what's wrong', w would say 'nothing, I'm fine', I'd say 'no you're not' and it would end with 'leave me alone or I won't be'.

In the case of going out I'd say 'let's go out', she'd say 'I don't want to go out without s', I'd say 'well we can do something together this weekend but I'd like us to go out for dinner' etc, she'd say 'I'll think about it'.

Then we wouldn't and she'd either deny the conversation took place or return to not wanting to go out without s.

I own that w had been trying to tell me of issues between s and I for *a long* time and I hadn't picked it up, I wasn't ignoring her but I was so deep into a spiral of being pushed away and getting frustrated, pursuing and getting more frustrated and pushing s away that it wasn't registering I think.

I also know w hadn't been listening to me on needing to be a couple with time apart from s to just to be 'us' for an equally long time. In your sitch I'd look to see if you have parallels and if you find yourself going negative look to see the change, 180 etc that could happen and think about that instead (not necessarily with w just for you).

That's what I'm attempting anyway, sometimes its working better than others!

As to what your daughter said if she was with her granny all weekend then you could possibly bring it up in a non confrontational way "D3 said she was with granny all weekend, I'd like to have spent that time with her this close to Christmas but its good for her to see her Grandparents, we can reschedule if you find you've got something you can't get out of just let me know and we'll discuss." or something similar and less waffly, any vet's have an opinion on that one?

Edz

[jim0987]

I wasn't ignoring her but I was so deep into a spiral of being pushed away and getting frustrated

and here is more proof of the similarities we all face. I could have so easily written this (assuming i havent somewhere)

I know we have different scenarios but a lot of the WAS playbook sure does track on all of our experiences it seems (this is indeed covered in the books).

In someways an actual playbook my be a useful resource.


Like your saying one of the things i'm often doing is trying to identify how i could have been different/better to work on these issues rather than expecting her to change(aint hindsight brilliant!!!!) For example:

when she said she wasnt comfortable with a baby sitter then i could have made much more effort to do romantic things at home. instead i just felt the rejection and didnt bother.

when she recoiled from hugs, or made her 'no sex' excuse (usually 'i dont feel well'), instead of snapping 'I just wanted a hug' and slinking off all hurt. I should have said something more caring and positive.

Most importantly I should have paid attention to all the things she was doing and shown appreciation for this rather than resenting the stuff she wasn't.

The only downside for my narrative is that i then beat myself up about this and go into a 'no wonder shes leaving' / 'why would she ever come back' spiral. This is the bit i need to find a way to tackle

[jim0987]

And so it continues. more formal emails (3 already this morning) pushing me on the timelines and trying to rewrite the financial agreements so they are worse for me.

At the moment I'm ignoring them. I will respond to them later with a simple 'I need to discuss this with my solicitor'

[edz]

Hi Jim

On the emails that seems sensible. On the best way of looking at what could have been done differently, well, as you said hindsight is really really great and utterly useless now. I look at all the opportunities I had to spend time with s or all the time I spent working weekends etc instead of being out and about and the times I'd take my camera out on family days out but "distance" myself from the pair of them without realising I was doing it. I've spent a lot of the last few months really wanting to thump that guy until he saw sense but, ultimately, there's nothing to do facing that way, got to turn around and look at the scarier path forwards.

One thing I think you really need to do, a challenge since I think we do run quite parallel, is you need to forgive yourself. Yes, own the issues, know what could have been different and practice those changes for yourself, your kids and your w if she chooses (but try, try so hard not to only concentrate on that possibility) but also you need to move on *from* that old you. He's gone, the past, ghost of christmas past now left the building, new Jim, new outlook but you have to let him go (yes, I know Frozen again) and stop beating yourself up - thats the dber buddies job now

Really, of all the perspective changes I've made, thats made the biggest difference to me. Am I blame free - hah no - do I see what I could have done differently? Yup in hundreds of ways, was W an innocent party before bd - nope our communication was woeful - but, ultimately, what of that can I change now to hope to move into the future with w or in another meaningful relationship and building a future with my s in the last part of his pre-teen years?

I had to drop that baggage of beating myself and I really think you should try to as well as, if you can and you get your space next month (and I know the feeling that makes in the bottom of your stomach) you'll work toward being the Jim we all have faith in you being.

Take care mate

Edz

[jim0987]

Right now i feel very backed into a corner. She is pushing me on the financials quite hard now (having ignored them for months) - i guess the difference a happy relationship with OM makes, however i cant help but feel that my discussion with her yesterday morning had an impact

She is definitely asserting herself

Because i feel backed into a corner it makes me want to act (react) which in this case would mean saying i'm filing so that we can resolve matters formally and finally.

Not sure this is a good plan. I need to map out my options i think and evaluate them.