I just composed and deleted a bunch of texts to H because he just ticked me off with exactly the scenario we described above.
He threw out the cushion to my favorite chair which has been stored in the basement until the upstairs is done. (Which will be never.) That's something he's been wanting me to do, throw out things in the basement, presumably so he can live there someday. (Right.)
I told him three times that nothing I had down there was junk, just things in storage, and was not "throwing anything away". (Especially now since I may be having my own place. You'd think he'd realize that furniture might come in handy!)
I asked him nicely to focus on getting rid of HIS construction debris down there. (AKA: "Trash" And plenty of nails, pipes, sheetrock scraps...and more.)
So tonight we're down there and he picks up the the note I'd left for him after I saw he'd tossed some of MY things. A nice note, "Please remember not to throw anything out without checking. Thanks! :)"
He says to me, holding up the note: "Just so you KNOW, the only thing I REALLY threw away was that old cushion."
I say: "That's my favorite chair (antique, had it before we were married, sentimental value!) and I wanted that original cushion (a bit raggy but solid and easily covered) to see about replacing or re-covering it. (TO PUT IN MY NEW HOUSE WITHOUT YOU!!!! Didn't say that.)
He then says, like he's talking to a child: "You KNOW, ANYone who does upholstery can EASILY make a NEW cushion." But this is the same guy who would also say that cost too much, was stupid, it would never get done.
Still...I bit my tongue. But I didn't need a NEW cushion. I HAD one! Until he tossed it out.
ALL I said was, "Please don't throw away any more items without checking with me, maybe focus on all this construction stuff." Calmly, without blame, maybe my voice went up a bit, he is very good at reading people, so I'm sure he picked up that I was mildly annoyed.
And I walked out of the room, not angry, just a bit peeved. Didn't raise my voice, didn't accuse him... I would have never accused him in the past, either. It was probably an honest, ADHD mistake.
But here's the kicker. He flounces out without a word, (usually tells me he's leaving) and no "good night" text as usual hours later. This is on the tails of the last cold-shoulder treatment I got from him after implying that my life wasn't all unicorns and rainbows at the moment....why? HE could fill in the blanks on that one.
I KNOW he's Pissed at ME for showing any negative emotion which might imply he's not friggin perfect. He has always been like that. Can't take even perceived criticism.
It's actually worse than ever, this tendency. These days I can't say a thing or even breathe heavily. I can't let my voice show any emotion. Since he has treated me so callously, even a hint of his wrongdoing and he gets all passive-aggressive on me. It's really pretty sick.
He takes it as an attack on his character or something.
OK... so I'm roiling a bit. I sent him a text: "Hey--I know you wouldn't have thrown that cushion away if you knew it was important to me. :--)" Just as sort of an invitation to see if he would apologize.
I get this snippy response: "Correct." "gn"
Nice. So I said, "Well, we all mistake". "Make mistakes". "Hahah... Get it?" "Sorry... forgot." (Deliberately vague, thinking, yeah, 'forgot' you have no conscience/sense of humor/are an a$$hat/take anything said as criticism/have to attack people in a passive-aggressive way to make them "pay" for upsetting you...).
Me: "Good Night" (And yes, I can actually write more than "gf".What is THAT, anyway?)
So really, by now I'm doubly ticked off. "Correct"? Again like it's ME who has a problem with what he did after I asked him REPEATEDLY NOT TO THROW MY STUFF AWAY.
He doesn't make mistakes like the rest of us mere mortals. If he does, it's someone else's fault, or there was a REALLY GOOD REASON why he broke a promise, lied, did exactly the opposite of what he said he'd do, raised his voice... blah blah blah.
I did break down and text: "I guess if you wanted to be kinder, you would be. Point taken."
Not DBing, but he's so ALL ABOUT HIM. I get the least bit upset about anything he does or did, show any negative emotion, and he's angry at ME.
That is really twisted.
I know I should be grateful that the worst he does is get snippy electronically or give me the cold shoulder, but this is a grown man. This tendency is him is really very maladaptive. I walk on eggshells all the time.
I am not allowed to be angry, upset, sad, fearful, sick to my stomach, or anything else like that because it makes him feel bad about HIMSELF and that feeling is MY FAULT and I must be punished. Likewise, I must be punished if I am TOO HAPPY and appear to be moving on without him as he has said he wants. If I don't make him feel wanted or needed.
It's a Lose : Lose. It's maddening. And I think that's why he can't be around me. He can't risk having any "bad feelings". Just like I've always said. That's why he has to divorce me. Because I will be a constant reminder of his mistakes, and a potential reservoir for more bad feelings coming his way. -------------------------------------------------------------
I am NOT mind reading this ^^^^. I know it's true. I've lived with it all these years and seeing this trait so amplified is really making it clear for me.
I'd love some of our Codependent Nice Guys/Conflict Avoidant/Passive-Aggressive/Manipulative Guys with not the best self-esteem...who are self-aware and working hard on their stuff to give me some insight into what this dynamic is all about. It might help you too, LiveNow.
Calling You Guys! Calling DBers of the Male Variety!!! I need the "No More Mr. Nice Guys", Codependent Guys, Conflict-Avoidant Guys who are gaining awareness and bravely working through your issues to help me out. Maybe you could read the above post and give me some insight?
I could really use some ideas of how to wrap my head around this.
I mean, if someone tells you that your actions hurt them, is the appropriate response to get angry at them for "attacking your character" and "making them feel bad"?
If I get angry--he gets angry at me for being angry.
If I am hurt by something he does, he gets angry at me for expressing that hurt.
If I pull back and go dark, he gets angry and pulls back even more, as if I am doing something to reject or hurt him.
If I GAL and am having a good time, this also makes him angry.
The anger comes out in passive-aggressive ways, but it's at the core of everything, I believe. He is very resentful, probably has been for years.
I suspect he feels that I have mistreated him, that I am still mistreating him. Although cognitively, I'm pretty sure he knows that's not true. But it FEELS that way to him.
This has come up many times in relation to the D, he doesn't want to feel what this destruction feels like. He doesn't want to feel my pain. He can't handle anything.
He issued the D partially as a gag order... he wanted me to stop expressing my emotions, stop being angry. He basically said, "it doesn't matter anymore, you can shut up now, I'm just going to D you/"
Even once after he said "What can I do to help you feel more secure?" which sounded really genuine, I answered that I needed to be able to express myself and I needed to talk some things through.
At which point he YELLED at me, "That's NOT going to HAPPEN, Goat Gal! I WANNA A DI-VOOORRRRCCE!!!!"
I think he is willing to provide any kind of support to me which does not require any emotion. So he'll pay the bills and fix my tires, and pick up the heavy stuff.
But he won't be kind, sweet, thoughtful, compassionate... even with D on the table, does he have to be so cold-hearted? So angry AT ME?
I know, I know... it's just a weird moment. The holidays coming on. I was in the stores today and... well... it was touch-and-go there at points.
The man is a total slave to his emotions, which are largely colored by a rough childhood and some other issues. They do not reflect reality. He can't seem to see that.
This has always been present, but now it's incredibly bad.
It's as if he takes everything as an attack--my pain over his actions, my unhappiness about our situation, my sadness, my GALing, my self-sufficiency, my liking other people, if I suggest he do something differently, or ask him to cooperate or plan with me...
No---I am NOT trying to fix him. I'm just trying to understand some of this dynamic to tailor further interactions. I'm tired of walking on eggshells just to keep the peace.
I almost want to blow things up...and get it over with.
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
((((GG)))) from my point of view....he just isn't. Thinking about it enough to care or bother acting nice. IMHO.
me: 47, W:49 M 16.5 years T 17 years Three kids - D17,D14, S13 Heart 2 heart about M 11/8/13 Bomb drop 11/29/13 W moved out 12/5/13 I Retained L 2/20/14 D filed 3/17/14
Sorry gg but we most definitely married to the same god damn man.
Even the fact he hit my child was about him. He just expects the sun to raise and set on him. I am working towards just cutting the rope entirely.
Although every woman he was ever with is still pining for him, so still he thinks he's number one. I got my hair done and changed it up a bit and was wearing hot pink again.
Gg sticks out and turn heads, in a wow fashion. Even one of my bosses was google eyed. Hair is still same colour same extra streaks just slightly different style. Kicked it up a gear for Christmas.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
GGG(G), My W just spent over an hour telling me how I and our kids felt for the last 10 years. You see we were all miserable. When we laughed together, we were miserable. When we were out having fun together, we were (all of "us") miserable. This is because SHE was miserable! He doesn't like it if you aren't miserable like him. He was unhappy so you should be as well. Not only that, it wasn't her (or his) fault he was unhappy. No, that HAD to be your fault. Every time we have had a R talk, the length of time she has been "miserable" has increased. It's now up to much more than half our M.
Your H and my W are much alike in that they NEED someone to pin their unhappiness on. My W blamed her father until he came to her and wanted to "make-up" for things that he did. So, now dad isn't to blame...who is? Must be H! My W also hates when I'm "too happy" (doesn't jibe with "everyone, not just her, were miserable). She doesn't like when I'm unhappy because she thinks (like your H blames you) I will blame her...besides, there is no way that we can expect sympathy since we have caused so much unhappiness in them! Heck, we're lucky that they give us the time of day since we are so very evil.How dare YOU the bringer of unhappiness, expect anything of them. And to point it out, well that's just too much!
GGG, he, like my W, "knows" we have no right to expect, let alone point it out if they fail, them to do anything for you. You have taken so much from him already, caused him so much pain and hurt, you need to just appreciate that he hasn't D'd you already. Him just being there to "help" you should be met with bands and flowers thrown at his feet. You just don't get this and when you show or point out something he did "wrong", well that is just too much! In response he will get angry and sullen. Complain under his breath about how "ungrateful" you are that he hasn't D you already and he works himself into a thither. It comes in passive aggressive behavior because then he can say it's you just seeing things but inside he knows he got you to be as upset and unhappy as he is and it makes him feel better.
This is how I see the way your H acts. Of course, this is just MHO but this is what I have seen from my W!!
Thanks...that's interesting, the way you put it. I am the "bringer of unhappiness/failed at bringing happiness" so I have caused so much pain TO HIM, how dare I mention, even casually, that he is imperfect. I must be trying to cause him MORE pain, because that HURTS! Right?
And GG, you could be in the punk band with me and kml... I'll do the blue mowhawk again, and she'll be the kicka$$ drummer! You're certainly able to pull off the wardrobe! I would love to meet you in a pub some day....
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Still waiting for more of my "Codependent No More/No More Mr. Nice Guys" to weigh in on my above posts. Fellas, I need your wisdom as guys who have been there.
I know it's hard to share the things that you struggle with the most, but it would really help quite a few of us gals on here who are in some type of R with NMMNGs.
Come on---I'm a DAMSEL IN DISTRESS!!! Come to my rescue
Hey---I'll be happy to bare my soul about my struggles with ADHD and Asperger's. It's a real sideshow...
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Sadly, I am not the guy to rescue you from distress.
I think that H cannot handle your criticisms because he feels less than a bug at his place of work and needs to feel some importance. To compensate for this shortcoming, H inflates his own self-importance at work as the boss and as the "boss" at your ranch. A lot like Lord Farquaad from Shrek. Let's face it. He KNOWS that he's no Prince and your reactions serve as a reminder to him. That is painful for him so he shuts down that from you. He cannot handle it. He's not healthy enough to make allowances for other opinions that may be contrary to his own views which causes him to view them as a direct attack on him.
