In the last few days I've discovered a few things about my situation from messages between her and her PF, the content has made me feel bad and I clearly haven't detached.
- She regrets marrying me. apparently she knew on our wedding day that she didnt want to go through with it and says I've been awful ever since
- She is still infatuated with OM1, he is apparently the centre of a big social circle in London and could have anyone he wants and she thought/thinks he wanted her. she still wants him badly but because he only wanted casual she is trying to be sexy but aloof to him but whenever they see eachother at work she spends ages talking to him
- She is going to see her recently divorced ex (much older police officer who mistreated her badly and we share a mutual dislike of each other) on saturday night and staying at his house because she needs to 'get him out of her system'
- She has said both that she just wants some meaningless sex and that also she just wants to be loved as she has been 'so alone for so long'
- her mortgage offer has come through and so she will be moving out in the next few weeks and will be starting to pack next week.
- she thinks her life is a car crash at the moment and that the only good things in it are the kids and that she will be in her own house soon. She still blames me for this as 'I've taken all of her happiness and and self esteem'
- MIL's health has got worse and MIL is now very depressed.
- She is annoyed that i went to Paris. she hasnt said a word to me about it (literally nothing at all to even acknowledge i went) but has complained to friends and family about the money and that i wouldnt tell her who i went with (she hasnt asked)
Things that i know about through my conversations with her.
- she seems to be taken more action to progress the seperation and divorce with a couple of very short emails about finance - she has been otherwise silent on this for weeks
- she is happy with the school choice that is right near the marital house so thats better for me and my D3 (we knew this when we bought where we are)
- I'm not in Limbo in the slightest - she definitely doesnt want me.
- She is still lying about a lot of things
- she wont/hasnt asked anything about me - for example I have a massive bruise on my arm from kickboxing but she hasnt queried it at all
I'm taking the kids to the natural history museum at the weekend. its something i've wanted to do for a year or so but my W always worried about taking the kids to london and always objected to the idea. I dont need to worry about that now so i'm taking them - she seemed really anxious about this when she found out this morning (she asked what we were doing at the weekend). I'm pretty sure the kids will love it
So our interactions are really up and down sometimes they are friendly and polite (when she is in a good mood, days when she is seeing OM1 for example) and other times she just looks at me with contempt. always though she is trying to keep distance, if it ever is too warm and friendly she says something divorce related and shuts it down or simply walks off.
for the most part i keep everything fairly professional and neutral toward her, try to appear friendly and happy in myself. No idea how good a job i'm doing on this as my mood is all over the place.
I'm still busy every day i dont have the kids, work is going well and i'm starting to really feel my fitness improving. I feel better about me in a lot of ways as well
I've been put on a senior leadership development programme and the things the psychometrics (self and peer) identified i need to improve on are - being more outgoing - showing more passion - better empathy - showing appreciation - Consensual decision making - being more aware of how dominant i can be
These are all the same things that have been bought up by looking at my relationship and the things i did wrong.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
This is so so hard for you, as it is history rewriting itself. Your W is in crazy loco mode, first this OM , now that one. Rewriting history to justify her own actions which have little benefit and will leave her empty and without support. This OM sounds as good a catch as the last one.
Patience.
Me thinks W protests too much.
W seems to be getting more concerned as you detatch and get stronger. W chose her route and is in her cheeseless tunnel, every one in those tunnels eventually faces themselves and the damage they cause. It's errant behaviour of the worst sort and so unkind. Ok we all make mistakes, W is making her own and she knows it. Jim, W chose her route, having an A is a poor choice and her choice, you can not place the blame on yourself for W errant behaviour.
Have a wonderful time in London with your kids, the museum is amazing and there is the spectacular winter wonderland in Hyde Park too and much much more. What an exciting pre Christmas treat for two thrilled youngsters. GAL at its very very best.
Hang in there dear friend. This is a long journey, and you are merely at an interim staging post.
Vanilla
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
So i got into a relationship discussion with my wife this morning. it was spread out over a bit of time and i certainly couldnt give a complete transcript but heres the general stuff it might be a little jumbled in ordering. There was no anger in my voice in any of this by the way - sadness is the best description.
She started by saying she was really concerned about me taking the kids to London tomorrow and she outlined some of her concerns. I said that i understood that she was worried and they were perfectly reasonable but that i would still be taking the kids. I also said that i hadnt taken them before because of her worries. She asked if i was going with anyone else and i said no, but that its something id always wanted to do with her.
she asked me to take pictures and text her to let her know they were safe. I said that it would be fine but that i would. I also said that i would like to have kept texting her about the kids anyway but that I didnt think she wanted to hear from me. she said she always wanted to hear about the kids.
I cant remember how the conversation got there but somewhere along the way I said that 90% of our issues were communication and she said she disagrees. I said that I'd always loved her. she said she never doubted that but that Id hurt too much and she stopped trusting that I would be there for her when she needed me because I'd let her down so badly in the past. I said i know i got it incredibly wrong when her dad died but she only gave me the one chance. she said id let her down before that over her going back to work after our D3 was born (she feels i made her go back to work) [I could list a BIG long list of the ways in which i have let her down from her perspective and although i can explain most some really are pretty dreadful even with the explanation. I've mentioned most of these before but unfortunately they are the past and there is nothing i can do about them now and 90% are from the first year after D3 was born]
I told her that when your holding resentment and wont trust me it doesnt really give me a chance to be there for you.
I said that I have never meant to hurt her and that I would of done anything for her i just didnt know what or how. She replied by saying i wouldnt move back to hampshire when she wanted to. I'd always said I would move when i found a job but that I didnt want to give up my career to move back because thats what it would have meant. I would have felt like i was giving up my value.
I said we moved here in the first place because she wanted me to leave my old job. she told me not to blame her, i said i wasnt because it was a hideous place to work and she should know better than anyone given what she had to put up with in the office she was working in and the way her ex (the one she is seeing tomorrow) treated her. she asked what i meant and I said about the way he would brag about his latest conquest which was often her. she went back to the point that i could have moved and that because i didnt it showed her i wasnt there for her and i just hurt her too much. I repeated that there is a big difference between not be willing to support her and not knowing how.
we started to talk about christmas and the arrangements and agreed most things pretty easily. She said something like it will be your turn next year and i said that i'd rather there not be turns but thats her choice. I asked if she could have the kids new years eve and when she asked if I had plans I truthfully said not yet but i will make some now that I know
I asked about a couple of weekends where i need to switch with her and she said that one of them would be a problem as she is going to a music festival with her sister. I was disappointed by this and explained that its the kind of thing that i wanted to do with her. I talked very briefly about how there was a life I wanted of doing things with the kids, going to gigs, travelling etc. that i wanted to share with her but that now thats not what i get to do. I also told her that i was going to see a band (that we both love).
there was a few minutes while we were both getting ready and then I said to her that if it will make her feel better then i will ask someone to come with me to london. she said it would and so i've sorted that.
Just before i left i said to my wife M: Sorry about my mood this morning. apart from whats happening with us my life is pretty good, W: i'm very happy for you M: its just makes me sad but then if it didnt then there would be something wrong with me W: well dont blame me M: I'm not, we both did things wrong.... both could have been better its just the difference between us is that I dont think any of it is insurmountable
I kissed my kids goodbye and rested a hand on her back and told her I hope she has a good day before leaving for work.she said bye but didn't look at me.
Not sure what there is to learn from this conversation so your advice is welcome and appreciated
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
First bit seems ok to me. Not sure about the ILY bit if that's DB. But it leaves the door open to future contact.
I struggle with the going to concert weekend, seems a little like chasing. No doubt the vets will comment.
Well ok you weren't the perfect H, you made mistakes, you are human. I can repeat what Sandi said to me: you are standing for your marriage, you are not having any A. W is wayward, she could have chosen to work with you, she didn't and isn't. But it takes one to tango, one with two special children. Time to stop beating yourself up, you cannot undo a single thing you did nor unsay what you said. That is the past, it's done, it's over. You have paid the price, you have atoned. Let go of it Jim.
Pictures of you and the kids having an amazing time. How delicious, a picture says a thousand words. Take loads, happy faces and if possible small laughing clips for your phone. Then you will have wonderful delicious stored memories to enjoy in your private world. When life gets to you then these precious things will make you wistful but smiling.
Enjoy Vanilla
Last edited by Vanilla; 11/28/1406:47 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
jim0987 - I think your wife moving out is the event I most look forward to seeing happening on these boards. It will be a huge boost to your PMA and it will get her out of the reach of your backslides. Once she's gone, you won't have many opportunities to show strength though so use every occasion you have now.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
PLEASE EXCUSE THE TONE OF THIS - IF YOU WANT CHEERY DONT READ IT
Just wanted to provide an update but have avoided it as i've been doing badly at all of this over the last few days.
She knows that I have snooped on her phone but hasnt said anything to me (she left a message for me to find before changing the code)
I also got drawn into another disagreement with my W yesterday and rather than seeming confident and assertive i was resigned and defeated
She is pushing about the housemove - not giving me any information just chasing me to chase my solicitors so she can get moved. this should all take place in the next couple of weeks - I expect in the week before christmas.
when i was talking about solicitiors she got the impression i have filed for divorce and she seemed really concerned by this. I said its not what i want so why would i have done that. I know from previous intel she has it all set up and is just waiting until she moves out before she issues the papers as she is convinced i will make things difficult otherwise.
I have been thinking that maybe I should file though as at this stage it will be about citing unreasonable behaviour and basically its pointless contesting it but it may have a bearing later if she decides to take the kids to a different part of the country. she has wanted to move home ever since we moved here. This is more likely now she is sleeping with her ex who lives back near her family - she spent the weekend with him and came back 'glowing'.
she talked to me last night with her back to me and i said that she should at least have the courtesy to look at me. at one point the conversation had gone ok but then as i was leaving she made a big noise half question which she then refused to elaborate on. In amongst the 2 parts of the conversation points that came out included -
- she mentioned again that i was horrible to her when her dad died. i said that i know i was wrong and have apologised a thousand times for it. i also said she has never tried to understand why i was like that. W said 'Its because you lack empathy'. I said that i do but that means i find it difficuly to know what to do, not that i'm unwilling to do it. - i told her i hope she finds the happiness she is looking for - she gave me the same BS about just wanting to be on her own for a while. that she doesnt know what she wants but she knows she doesnt want this (meaning our R) I didnt say anything to this. - i said that i thought our M had got pretty rubbish as well but i never thought we were at risk and that we would work it out and that we owed the kids the effort to have tried. she said not to blame her because she did tell me lots of times and had tried everything. I pointed out that it wasnt in a way i had understood. - I said some nonsense about how we each have our own version of the truth and that we have to be comfortable with that - she said thats right and that she is entirely comfortable with hers. (I really wanted to say something like 'does that include the affair because thats what it is' - I didnt say anything of the sort) - I said that there was a lot of stuff we need to discuss about the divorce (rattled off a bit of a list) and including what we tell D3. W said D3 already knows as she has talked about mummys new house and that 'mummy doesnt like daddy any more'. She said the only thing she had said is that 'mummy and daddy are having a hard time being friends'. I hate this line she wants to trot out because it makes it sound like that this is somehow my choice. D3 knows i still love mummy because she has asked me and i'm not going to lie to my D3 to make my W feel better about this - she said she feels really awakward at home and just wants out. doesnt like being around me and especially when the kids are there as it confuses the kids.
She spent the whole converstaion looking away and when she did look at me it was an increasing expression of smug self satisfaction. I'm guessing but i'm going to say its because once again I lept right in with reinforcing what a loser i am and how she is making the right decision. this properly sux. she was able to feel good about her decision because i gave her enough for her to feel like i was having a go.
She willfully takes everything in the worst way and i constantly find myself having to say that i'm not having a go. I dont know if this is a ploy on her part, whether im actually that bad, whether she is massively oversensitive or that i'm just way too weak when i've done nothing wrong. I suspect all of these
I know i'm being drawn into these things because my PMA is so low. I'm not up and down at the moment on a fairly steady depressed. I'm feeling pretty hopeless and empty at the moment. Normally i would look forward to my wednesday with the kids but right now i'm just not feeling any joy.
i know that in part its because she is jumping into bed with all these guys (at least 3 since BD) and i'm feeling lonely. I know that a lot of that is fear that i will always be alone because who the hell would want me. I know that i'm upset that she has gone back to her ex (who she knows i've always despised because i compare myself so negatively to him, and I hate the fact there is a chance he will now be involved in my kids lives). I know a huge part of it is still trying to come to terms with everything i did wrong. I'm also wrestling with how much was her dishonesty and how much was my willful ignorance and defensiveness.
I can give a big list of things that make my life sound good and i can rattle of another big list as to why she made it so hard for us to have a good marriage and a lot of the whys and wherefores for some of my rubbish behaviour. But none of that changes anything and isnt helping me move forward.
I know it might be good for me when she moves out but i dont want her to go. It feels like that will really be the end. I will see her once a week and that will be to see her flourishing new life of happiness while i sit alone regretting what i've lost. I cannot shake the conviction that she will be happier without me.
I'm clinging on to a future that has already gone and a relationship that hasnt existed for nearly 3 months and was a mockery for years before that.
Last edited by jim0987; 12/02/1405:37 PM.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Sorry to hear this Jim. Keep your head up. Your situation seems so much like mine. Just you are probably about 1 month ahead of me. You really have to GAL. I know it is hard. I find it really hard. Sometimes to the point that when I am tearing up while thinking what could have been if I would have only clued in that I make myself run until I stop crying. Or I just go for drives go to the mall and people watch. Trying to smile at everyone walking by. Hopeing to make their day a little more enjoyable. These are just some of the thing I try to do. Hope it helps. Maybe a bit rambling. But I have never been good at communicating. Just ask my W
M:35 W 31 D's:6, 4 & 2 T:9 M:7 ILYBNILWY- Mar/14 DP Served Dec.17/14
I know it might be good for me when she moves out but i dont want her to go. It feels like that will really be the end. I will see her once a week and that will be to see her flourishing new life of happiness while i sit alone regretting what i've lost. I cannot shake the conviction that she will be happier without me.
This is a marathon, jim0987. Yes, your W will be or at least appear happier in the short term. But you know she's not building a life of happiness for the next 50 years. This requires the sort of introspection, planning and actions you're doing. Think of her as the person starting a marathon with a sprint, not even looking at directions. Pace yourself, do the right thing. I'm not even saying that to reassure you and not even because of DB: this is just how life works. Think of her as the high school dropout that's making an OK salary at 16. Did he really have an edge over you, who stayed through college?
I've a hard time not comparing my happiness to that of my W, especially when I have the kids and free her up to spent a romantic week with OM, something she and I could very rarely do as parents (she spent her birthday at a nice restaurant we always meant to visit, sigh). I try to look further ahead. I'll be a better H, that's for sure, and again I'm not saying that to forget my pain but because it's the plain truth. It doesn't take away from the fact that I want to be this better H to my W and no one else.
This is NOT how DB (or any R) works: WAS goes crazy one morning, announces decision to leave without a reason, LBS pleads and begs, WAS realize that it's really unfair to leave, call off the D and come back because they have to.
This is how DB works: the WAS detaches over time without the LBH realizing, then there's the DB, LBS is shell-shocked, nothing changes the mind of the WAS, s/he's upset and in the fog, s/he leaves, LBS no longer pushes their buttons, is no longer responsible for their life, the hurt recedes, the memories balance out, the craziness goes away and normality sets in, we become better people, a positive presence, they reevaluate their lives and choices, if we're good enough they might decide to come back.
Try visualizing how you and your W would reconcile. Perhaps describe here the whole process, with some sort of timeline. I'm not a vet, so maybe it involves too much mind reading, but I believe it will help you now to see and accept what's going to happen in the short term.
My IC thinks that part of my distress at the departure of my W comes from my lack of confidence around women. He's right about that. He thinks that if I had confidence that I can find someone else easily, I wouldn't be so distressed. There might be some of that with you. Then again, isn't it much more reasonable to think that of course we'd meet someone else if need be. Look around and you'll see much worse people in relationships. Imagine that: whether it's a reconciliation or a new relationship, there's infatuation in our future. At our age. Something I had pretty much written out. We'll be full of love and desire, enthusiastic, glowing, etc.
Our sitches started at the same time (Sept 3 for me, Sept 7 for you) and I can tell that my PMA and behavior are better than yours because my W moved out immediately. Believe me, I was bad when she was home. I'd beg her to come to bed with me. I'd ask for sex. On the day she left, I told her it was the worst day of my life and I hugged her, crying on her shoulder and repeating about 10 times "my love, my love..." Now that she's gone, I can focus on myself for longer stretches of time. I know it's counter-intuitive, but if she's to come back, she'll have to go away first. And for her to come back, you'll have to look much better than now. Give up. Not on your M, but on the idea that she should stay now. Focus on the right strategy for a reconciliation.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
