Because we are separated? My understanding is that piecing = both partners working on the the relationship with the intent to stay married, which is what we're doing.
Sandi - if I understand correctly, Elsa's H has maintained a position of wanting to work on it, even while they are living apart.
Elsa - I'm sorry I've been silent lately. I do keep checking in on your progress and it sounds like things are inching (ever so slowly) in the right direction, even if things go backwards at times. I agree with a previous post (Maybell?) that it's so great to read about two people who are honestly trying to make this work out. It brings a lot of us hope! I also love the way you write as we can really see the process you are going through. I'd noticed before that you don't really talk negatively about your H - I think this is a great thing and says a lot about you. You've handled this whole thing with grace.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Interesting development -- H is spending the night here on Xmas Eve. When he told me that's what he wanted, I didn't even know what to say. I was honestly avoiding the subject because I assumed that it was going to be a repeat of T-giving ("Well, I really WISH we were at that place, but . . .").
My lack of a reaction must have concerned him because he asked, "Isn't that what you want?" I said yes, of course. He smiled and said, "Thanks for making this easy!"
You may recall that before H came over on Halloween, I asked him to treat me like I was the most important (adult) person there, and he agreed to do so. (If he had not, I would have asserted a boundary and asked him not to come.) This time, I decided to just "accept the gift" of his presence and not to try set any expectations ahead of time. Of course, we each had some unspoken expectations that we assumed the other was aware of. For example, I knew my H would not want to engage in any R talk during the holiday. And I assumed my H knew that I would need some physical touch in order to feel cared for.
H came over at about 8pm last night. We had a little dinner of frozen appetizers (Xmas Eve tradition) and D7 opened one of her presents (pajamas and a robe -- she was SO EXCITED about the robe, it was adorable). After D7 went to bed, we set up her Santa presents together and cleaned up from dinner. We headed to bed around 11pm.
This was the first time we'd slept in the same bed in almost six months. During the S, we've had sex, cuddled, laid down together and talked, etc. but we've not spent the night with each other.
My #1 fear: We would lay down in bed and H would make no attempt to touch me. Basically, he's there, but I'm still alone. I really thought there was no way that he would hurt me like that on Xmas Eve.
His #1 fear: We would lay down in bed and I would start a long R talk.
And of course, we managed to trigger each other's #1 fears. What could I have done differently? I suppose I just could have laid there and felt neglected again, tried to tell myself that he's trying and not to assume the worst, all the while building up resentment that's going to manifest itself anyway at some point. But you know what? I'm so tired of making excuses for why I'm being treated poorly by someone who claims to love me and claims to want our marriage to work. I'm just out of patience with that particular task. Really, I just want to know the truth. Are we really working on this? Or am I just being placated until he's ready to drop the next bomb?
So, I said something. I don't even remember exactly what I said. I think I asked him if he came over to spend Xmas as friends or as spouses. But really, anything I said would have gotten the same reaction he gave me, or worse (according to him) -- a big sigh, followed by "I knew this was a bad idea" and "If you keep this up, we will never spend another night together again."
We ended up talking in circles for 2 hours. Toward the end, I brought in our conversation from last Friday -- the one where we talked about forgiveness and he apologized for one of my unresolved hurts. During that conversation, he'd told me that if I was upset, he would reach out to me instead of turn away, that he would never let it get to "that point" again. Last night, I told him that if that was true, this was a time when he needed to reach out for me. Finally, he asked me what I needed and to his credit, he did what asked (apologize and hold me). I asked him if it was real, and he said yes. He asked me what I needed to know that it was real, and I said that I didn't know, but it would help if he apologized again tomorrow. And he found a moment to do that today.
We did have a pleasant day today and didn't seem to hold the previous night against each other. He asked to go to lunch tomorrow, which was unexpected. We'll see what happens next.
Hello Elsa. It's great that you were able to pull positives out of the night spent together with your H. I think it's even better, though, that you have the presence of mind to see what both your fears and triggers were. Did you anticipate them or only see them after the fact?
Anyway, it seems that knowledge in you made it possible for you to help get the conversation to a point where you both eventually got some of what you each wanted... you the physical touch and him the feeling from you that he's doing something right for you. For me, at least, that's why old me didn't like R talks because I felt criticized and confused and my defenses came up. When he asked, you directly and simply told him something he could do and understand to help you and then you rewarded him by appreciating it. As a man... I love that.
At least that's how I see what you did. You are inspiring me. Thank you for sharing Elsa, I'm glad good things are happening for you, baby steps, and keep going.
Last edited by HPoirot; 12/25/1410:30 PM.
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
I agree with HP. You continue to amaze and inspire me with your progress and how you "see" and reflect on things as they happen. The way I see it you are both nudging forward in your own way and you are both being mindful of each other's needs and wants. That's truly great!
Sleeping in the same bed - wow! That seems like a huge step. I totally get your need to be held (physical touch is one of my main LL). On the other hand, holding someone in bed is probably one of the most intimate things you can do in my book and I can see it could be a stretch when you are so early in the process.
I know you are eager to re-establish the R and are both communicating openly about your needs - which is great. Can you communicate your needs by saying this is what you will need from the R in the future but you acknowledge it may take some time to get there?
Elsa, I've been following your thread from the beginning (we're on the same timeline). I've noticed that you are often on here doubting H because his actions sometimes don't align with his words. He tells you that he wants to work on it, but then he doesn't go through with something and that disappoints you. I read this and think: Patience, Elsa! You do seem like you are a patient person and I'm not suggesting otherwise. But you got to piecing a lot faster than many of us here and so I don't think you've been forced to drop expectations in the same way many of us have. From where we sit, it sounds like your H is really trying!
I know you are tired of being patient, but I think reconciliation is within your reach if you can stay this path. You have a choice. Lie there, feel neglected and let the resentment build OR lie there, feel neglected in that moment but know that it will be ok because knowing this is a work in progress and he's finding it hard, too.
Remember - you both have training wheels on right now. You are learning and applying new skills in the hope of building a new R that meets both your needs/wants. Over time you can will be able to gradually raise the training wheels and ride for real, but it will take time to get to that point.
First time I rode without training wheels I did a few laps of the backyard then slammed straight into a clothes line and injured myself something bad. Methinks it would have been better to stay on training wheels for a bit longer.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Well, thank you both for managing to see some good in what I thought was a pretty rotten exchange!
I appreciate the male perspective on this, HP. My H has often said that he's tired of feeling like he's failing me, and I know that triggers his most basic fear -- which, like most men, is fear of failure. One problem that I'm running up against is that he also wants to do things "his" way and not feel controlled. Unfortunately, when I tell him what I need/want/etc, he feels controlled. He'll give it, but he may resent me for it (or not -- it really depends on the situation). And this is not mindreading on my part; he has admitted all of this in MC. It does put us in a particular quandary, I think.
Ganb8ate, hahaha to the suggestion that I'm patient person. You are kind, but I readily acknowledge that patience isn't one of my virtues. This experience has taught me that I do have more patience than I realized, though, and I think sometimes I still sell myself a little short. You are right; with a little bit more time and less pressure, he may come around to more of this on his own.
H included me in his family's Secret Santa gift exchange (without my knowledge) AND invited me to his family's Xmas celebration tomorrow. We talked this morning about our mutual fears but we decided that I would go and that his primary goal is to spend time with his family but that he also wants to care for me while we are there.
It took us about an hour to come that decision, but wow. That feels huge to me.
He doesn't want to come to my family's celebration tomorrow, but I'm okay with that. (Confession time -- I'm actually more than okay with that. It may make me a huge hypocrite, but I'd rather just enjoy some time with my family without having to worry about how they're interacting with H.)
Toward the end, I brought in our conversation from last Friday -- the one where we talked about forgiveness and he apologized for one of my unresolved hurts. During that conversation, he'd told me that if I was upset, he would reach out to me instead of turn away, that he would never let it get to "that point" again. Last night, I told him that if that was true, this was a time when he needed to reach out for me. Finally, he asked me what I needed and to his credit, he did what asked (apologize and hold me). I asked him if it was real, and he said yes. He asked me what I needed to know that it was real, and I said that I didn't know, but it would help if he apologized again tomorrow. And he found a moment to do that today. 
This experience has taught me that I do have more patience than I realized, though, and I think sometimes I still sell myself a little short. You are right; with a little bit more time and less pressure, he may come around to more of this on his own.