Card29 VI

[Card29]

Thanks for the kind words, Mozza.

Regarding the guy from school, Paris, etc. I do think she had feelings for that guy at BD. I think the Paris trip was the final straw. I still don't think they were ever physical. I think it was an EA without him even realizing it. After I called him in June, their R seemed to become much more professional. BUT, I know I could have a sheet pulled over my head right now since we are S and I only see her once a week for a few minutes. I did have the PI for 2 months, though, and they found zero evidence of anything suspicious, with him or anyone else.

I still don't know what to think about her "wants to date others" comment a month ago, so I try not to think about it. For some reason she still informs me of some of her social plans and still seemingly reassures me that it's with her girlfriends, or the guy that will be there is married his W will be there too, etc. I just say "okay" because I'm really not prying for info like that.

I still think the primary reasons for our failed M is my emotional neglect of her and her depression, which she's had since before we met. She has a lot to learn about being a good W, too. She was very reactive, selfish, and took out her frustrations (work, school, D) on me. While a lot of what I need to change as a H can't be practiced until we're at least piecing, there are things I've identified that I have changed or am working on now.

I have been "off" porn since early August, my longest streak since I was probably 15 or 16. W knew I was fighting this early in our R/M, but she was so hurt everytime I confessed a backslide, eventually I decided what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her, and I hid it for the last 5 years (while half-heartedly trying to quit). I thought my plan was working, but after all of this I realized it played a hand in killing my intimacy with her, especially in the bedroom. I feel much healthier now, and the temptations are fading, too. I will tell her all of this if we get to piecing. It is just another reason to be hopeful that things could be different if given the chance.

I am also practicing emotional intelligence, listening intently and starting from empathy. I mainly practice those at work since that is where the bulk of my adult interactions occur.

I am also working on things that I think had a minor role. I don't think I'm particularly angry or have extreme outbursts, but she did always complain that I yelled at her. I always dismissed that because my dad REALLY yelled at my mom, and I'm not even 10% of that. But in hindsight, my W comes from a very subdued family, and jeez, if she said that to me for years, I should listened, talked and tried to figure out what she meant. Right now I am trying to work on letting go of anger and frustration as they come up, which they do from time to time when I'm home alone, D2 is whining and the dogs are whining, too. Taking a moment to pause, breathe, empathize, then think and react.

I also have learned that I'm a Mr Nice Guy. Not down to the letter, but I do have many of the tendancies. I'm trying to practice being more honest, especially when it comes to "not nice" things that need to be said. I do think I share the tendancy with textbook MNG, where my frustrations come out passive aggressively. This may have been what WAW was talking about when she felt I was yelling at her.

Honestly, I do think I'm a "catch", especially now that am much more knowledgable as a H. I've always had the passion to be a great H, I just never learned how to be one. Everyone either of us know hopes she comes around and gives me another chance. To my knowledge, no one is telling her she's better off without me (although I don't know her friends at work very well, who she hangs out with when she does do something...all women, to my knowledge). But WAW is a very independent woman. She typically makes decisions on her own, so I know R would have to start with her making the decision to try.

[MCS]

Card,

I read your post above and it was almost like I wrote it. it's uncanny how similiar some of our sitchs are. I think Mozza and my W are similiar, and you and I are similar.

I'm not sure where my W stands with OM, but it seems to have died down. I'm the same way with being MNG, passive aggressive, not angry but was told I 'yelled' at her about things. I think the emotional neglect was my issue to, I see since we had kids, I was treating our M much more of a business than a R. I also agree that as much I would love to have my W back, there's a lot of work she needs to do right now.

Just letting you know, you're not alone.

[Card29]

just broke the rules a little. WAW sent me a cute picture of D2. I texted a smiley, then was about to say "miss her" but instead said "miss you guys"

[Card29]

Just e-mailed an accepted counter offer to our realtor. Here was a text convo with WAW:

WAW: How do you feel
Me: Relieved, sad
WAW: Yeah. Me too
Me: Really? Anything else you feel?
WAW: I don't know. I'm sad
*checks validation cheat sheet*
Me: Thanks for telling me that and for asking about me
Me: Side note: I'm out of practice forging your signature. Not my best work

[T384]

Card -

I say this with love and others may disagree but it comes off being a little pushy. I know the same approach doesn't work for everyone but I think you W needs to feel a little distance. I know you had a good interaction the other day at the gym however she's still a WAW. I would have left the conversation like this:

WAW: How do you feel
Me: Relieved, sad
WAW: Yeah. Me too

I'm not trying to be mean but don't be so available don't push her to give you more than what she willingly gave you as an answer.

[Mozza]

I have to agree: I see too much pursuing in there. If it's really hard to hold back, keep in mind that it's counterproductive to pursue. Doing nothing works in your favor.

[Card29]

I've been conflicted lately. I gave her tons of distance for a couple months and at the end of that time, she was looking to date others and was surprised I wasn't okay with it. I don't know if I should "try something different" and be closer, try to fulfill her ENs some (since there is no OM that I know of), or if I should distance myself more like you and sandi suggest. One thing I have done wrong lately is be way too quick to respond to texts or phone calls. I just noticed it yesterday, but for a couple of weeks I have responded immediately. I'm going to practice some hesitation, maybe even ignore her for a day.

[Mozza]

I think chapter 5 or 6 of DR has a section on why things aren't working out as expected. I doubt that pursuing falls under "try something different". It seems to be a big no-no until the WAW is pursuing. It's off-putting when you're not interested in someone.

[T384]

It's not about ignoring. But you are busy. You can respond but don't be at her beckon call. Be pleasant but don't try to extend the conversation.

She knows where to find you if she wants you. I Wonder if part of her said she wanted to date others if you really were dark as bait. To see if you had moved forward. Again just an observation

But listen women like being chased to an extent then it becomes pushy and unattractive. That is in a scenario where the women actually wants to be in a R. Now figure this WAW doesn't find you attractive or want a R yet you are being pushy, needy and available. More of a turn off. Have you ever heard we want what we can't have? Similar to that in my opinion. I personally would listen to sandi. She has excellent advice always and used to be a WAW. You can't get much closer to that for accurate advice.

[Card29]

Guys, thanks for the 2x4's. It's exactly what I needed to hear. In my heart I knew this was right. I know a lot of this is out of my control, I just want to do what will give my M the best chance to survive. So I get antsy sometimes and worry I'm not doing everything I can.