Jim0987 #5 - working on cat like readiness

[jim0987]

She always says she just needs 'one good friend' and then isn't bothered after that.

I've often thought that she has some form of PPD or just more generally depressed but I don't know. Its difficult to say because she wouldn't open up about this stuff much or when she did i tried to fix it with a lot of 'well you should....' Mainly she would just say she was tired. And she would never admit needing help. (Unless its after when she felt she'd been let down)

And even if she is I'm not sure it makes a difference to the my chances. As far as she is concerned I'm the cause of all her sadness (or at least the barrier to happiness). She is completely closed to me.

The otherside of this is that I was awful to be around almost immediately after the wedding when I had a mini breakdown, I really don't want to underplay that (25 called my behaviour some of the worst she has read). The net result is that she associates opening up to me emotionally with being hurt and so she just won't do it. I did some big damage (unintentionally but still...) A couple of years ago and then since then its been defences to full on both sides.

I am working on me and that feels like its working but it seems to be making my W more distant and more certain she is out. The hostility is now mainly replaced with cold indifference (like I'm the annoying coworker that she can just about tolerate)

[jim0987]

Claire, Sandi, I typed a reply then reread your posts. I reacted thinking about me rather than listening which is one of my issues I'm trying to correct.

Unfortunately you only have my side and some of my guessing. I don't know if she resents the kids but she has complained about the pressure and demands. Often she didn't look like she was having fun with them and she always asked me not to go to work (every 2 or 3 months I'd have to leave work in the middle of the day because she had rung me saying she couldn't cope). I always felt I couldn't go away unless someone else was around to support her but I nay have been being unfair.

The description you've given Claire fits so close to my perception of my W. The deep pain and fear comment really resonates as she was always afraid something bad would happen. She wouldn't go out (babysitter) she stopped watching the news or TV shows where kids were hurt (fictionally) etc. Etc. She also resented my commute because it meant I had time for me.

She wanted kindness and compassion from me I just could only give it in the way I knew how - offer a solution, small gifts, acts of service - whilst at the same time feeling insecure and defensive. (Engaging with feelings is another new thing for me)

Not really the stuff emotional rocks are made of.

[Mozza]

My W developed anxiety in the last couple of years and started taking anti-depressants. In the context of the present "operation", I've decided to take responsibility for it. I was making her miserable by ignoring her or criticizing her. She was trapped, starved in our marriage. That's why she became anxious and depressive. I'm not sure it's 100% of the explanation, but it's the one that helps me most to improve and to get a shot at reconciliation.

I do share your concern that external factors, such as some chemical imbalance, have precipitated our separation. I just don't know what I can do about it. Perhaps it can give me hope that it will wear off, I don't know. I wish I knew.

On a related note, it's awful to think that she and all her family and friends see how much she's improved since she left me (and found the OM) that it's hard not to connect my presence in her life with her misery.

I am working on me and that feels like its working but it seems to be making my W more distant and more certain she is out. The hostility is now mainly replaced with cold indifference (like I'm the annoying coworker that she can just about tolerate)

To me, it looks like you'll have to accept that things will get worse before they get better (I admit, I repeat that often on these boards). She'll leave the house, she'll get upset at you, she'll be mean, distant, won't contact you, etc. Prepare yourself so that, when it happens, you know it's part of the process. She will not suddenly warm up, she will not even gradually warm up because you have a sudden change. In fact, this sudden change looks very controlling to her. She told you so. You know that the only way you can provide it isn't controlling is through consistency. At some point, she may accept that you've changed for real. Just keep swimming.

[jim0987]

Good nemo reference!!

Similar thing here. To the outside it would look like she is happier and its difficult to not then believe it was all me. The thing I keep telling myself is that I never stopped her doing any of the things she doing now (ignoring OM related activities) its just she is finally trying to make herself happy rather than expecting me to somehow do it for her.

[Vanilla]

Jim
Regrets from the past can cloud today. We can not undo a single thing we have done nor do any promises for tomorrow work in the moment.

We can only do what can be done today, doing the best you can do and as well as you can is the most we can expect of ourselves.

Sure reading your thread mistakes have been made, but you have taken feedback and reviewed and made the change. Of course remember but forgive yourself, how can others forgive if you can't forgive yourself? That way repetition of mistakes is lestened.

This may soften your demeanour and posture whilst strengthening those Tarzan moves you are looking for. It takes a strong person to hold on to their resolve and an even stronger one to let go of what holds them back.
Be careful of guessing what is in Ws mind- even she may not know!
Are you happier?

Laughter today
Vanilla

[jim0987]

You good people have given me lots to think about over the last couple of days. I'm still processing a chunk of it.

I really don't know what she wanted with her 'me' time. I often offered to watch the kids if she wanted to do something else or meet a friend. She took a day off work to go shopping by herself and afterward complained it was a bit rubbish. It was something she said but I don't think even she knew what she meant - I think she really has lost her sense of identity.

We were both keeping scorecards and I think the categories on these clouded our interaction (mine about the things we weren't doing, hers about my behaviour). I'm on my way to letting mine go

So today I've had the kids all day and my dad and stepmum came up (W is out partying). Its been a nice day although I really felt W absence. D3 had me in tears for the first time in a while (held it together so she didn't see). At bedtime I got lots of 'please don't leave me daddy. I don't like it when you're not with me' type comments.

Watching my dad I realise that in a lot of ways he is a terrible example. He is so combative over the smallest things and you'd have to have rock solid self esteem to not feel belittled. It makes me realise that its no wonder I didn't know so much of this relationship stuff. Having said that he really does care (the issue is how he shows it)

Vanilla you asked if I'm happier. Its not a straightforward question. Overall no is the answer but that's because ignorance is bliss. I've had to look at some stuff about me that I would rather not and my M situation doesn't help. I am happier with who I am though and I really feel that might be the cornerstone of a happy future.

[Vanilla]

We were both keeping scorecards and I think the categories on these clouded our interaction (mine about the things we weren't doing, hers about my behaviour). I'm on my way to letting mine go.
.

Good for you Jim, this seems to me to shine through your thread and writing. Please be kind to yourself as you make this change. When things repair you will need to be throwing that score card away forever.

Vanilla you asked if I'm happier. Its not a straightforward question. Overall no is the answer but that's because ignorance is bliss. I've had to look at some stuff about me that I would rather not and my M situation doesn't help. I am happier with who I am though and I really feel that might be the cornerstone of a happy future.

Those internal changes are the ones that will last the longest, whatever happens in the future, I have observed that during the 12 steps that I attend. Sitches keep changing but internal changes stay. Takes a brave man to show active love when the waters of life are rough. It appears that you are getting closer to your amazing children.

Happiness for today
Vanilla

[jim0987]

So good weekend with the kids. my dad and stepmum came up to stay. And it was good all round.

My dad annoyed me a bit because he is quite disengaged and just can't stop himself from talking down to people. I pulled him up on it a couple of times and at one point was firm in telling him to stop (this is good)

I had a 5 minute interaction with my W when she got home. She asked about the weekend. I answered a bit and for some reason I mentioned about my dad and standing up to him. She said he means well but doesn't realise it hurts. Why I said it I don't know but I did say 'well a lot if my issues stem from dad and I don't want to put up with those any more'

I asked about her weekend and she evaded so I nicely ended the conversation and got on with the end of day chores.She's in her room for the rest of the evening.

She has this nailed in terms of being really happy about leaving and minimal courtesy toward me. Its obviously what she really wants and there is no hint of doubt or remorse - if anything its getting more certain. DBg might be helping me but I don't think its done anything to improve my chances of saving my R (unless I'm doing it really wrong).

I still spent a chunk of the weekend thinking about saying something to make sure that she knows there is a way back for us. I want my wife back its as simple as that.

[zed]

Jim, I did that about a week ago. Just before we went to mediation for the first time. Did not change a thing. She gives me tid bits to make us think that she still cares but she has a goal planned right now and it does not include us. Like you. Me and W still live in the same house until we can somehow agree who moves out. W try's to show that she is happy about her "choice" to leave. She calls it a consequence...what ever that means.
Some of Sandi's posts tell us how really troubled they are. The WAS still maybe cares for us but don't want us anymore. They have to get some type of loss for them to change. They wont have that loss if we keep telling them how much we want them back.

[Mozza]

jim0987 - Don't give up. You probably know in your heart that your WAW will move out, that your words will not keep her there, that your actions are drops in a bucket but better than nothing. You're playing a very long game, a marathon. It's not about changing her mind this week, it's about her coming back in several months. If you want to tell her there's a way back, better drown it in a sea of "I'm moving on". Like this: "You know I don't want this and there's a way back to our M. But you're free to go. I accept it and I'm also moving on. I understand why you want to go (don't say "even though I disagree"). I've a lot of work to do on myself and I've already started doing it. I know I'll be better in the future. I can already feel it. I'm making plans and taking steps for me and the kids to be happy. (2 more paragraphs of this)."

It's hard because our work doesn't show yet, or so little (she seems less aggressive with you?). It's normal that they won't show us. But they'll think back on it when their mind is out of the fog. I've had someone today tell me how impressed they were with the way I am handling things (she's gone, what can I don, I move on, give her space...). When our WAW become normal again, they'll think back of how we acted, how respectful (non-controlling) we were. We want it to play in our favor. Our immediate contribution to making them normal is not to fuel their anger at us, to make them forget why they leave us. Leave them with the echo of their bad words and actions and, at some point, wondering what was so wrong with us, if we really did change after all.

During this fury, this storm, the best thing for us would probably be to disappear, because that's what they want us to do. The wind will calm down and our game plan will change by then. You're going through a rough part, but so has everybody who succeeded at this. This is not for sissies.