Mozza (2)

[GoatGal]

Mozza,

That sounds fine. (And you can tell that she is sounding annoyed by the fact that you will not change your plans to accommodate her activities.)

Good for you.

"Make you pay?" by getting angry at you? It's hard to do, but just ignore this.
She can't hurt you more than she has already.

Stick to the facts, be reasonable, but don't be afraid to ask for what YOU want.
You get a voice too. If you want to take them out to dinner when they're with her, make that one of your conditions.


I wish you could stop worrying about "upsetting her". She's clearly not concerned about upsetting you.

If you're calm and civil, if she's upset with that, it's not your fault.

[Mozza]

Thanks GoatGal! I much appreciate that you took an interest in my sitch.

Like your W using your place for storage, having access to your flat, making unilateral decisions about the children without discussing it with you first.

I see you've done your homework! Thanks a lot. These are things that, indeed, I want to clarify with her.

Then blatantly having a R with this OM, which in itself is very disrespectful.

She's not really blatant about it. I say it's confirmed, but it's mostly through stories of the kids, who tell me how much time he spends there and that he was there in the morning when they woke up. She told them that he wakes up very early and came to their place (he's a runner, so... maybe?) To me, she hides it. There's still a slim possibility that they're just friends, just like Amelia Earhart might still be in flight somewhere above the Pacific Ocean.

You said English is not your native language, however your writing doesn't reflect this at all. Your English is perfect. Are you by any chance Italian? Because of "Mozza"? Just a guess.

Ha! I was next to a person eating cheese the first time I was asked for an online nickname.

By the way, my H had a lot of anger towards me too, about things which had nothing to do with reality. It was just his way of justifying his actions. If he could find something to be angry with me about, it would help him feel better about leaving me.

Yes, I think she might try to justify her departure and she has many things to be angry about. I'm sure on her side, it's all my fault. Also, she must be confused by my attitude because when she left, I was devastated, hugging and crying, saying it was the worst day of my life, etc. And now, all I give her are these short, factual emails. Often, I don't even respond.

I don't think she's afraid of losing me one bit though. She's still reeling from what made her go and in the tropes of this new love. She's only using me when it suits her. She was intent on being cordial through the separation, as we'll be linked forever, so I take her lunch invitations for efforts in that direction. No expectations. Patience.

Try and figure out if your W's previous complaints had merit or not. If they did, work on those things. If not, maybe work on them anyway, just in case.
For YOU.

They do have merit. My resolution is to focus more on them this week and less on her faults. That's why I'm holding back in this conversation! Another resolution was to spend less time here and more doing my stuff, so I should go! This quick stop has been just what I needed to help me deal with her emails and requests.

By the way, we have an agreement for December and she'll let me have the kids for one dinner during her long period. It's all good. She hasn't replied to my email saying I want her to get all of her stuff though...

[GoatGal]

Mozza,

I took the liberty of pasting this post from Theoden to Jefe. Thought it might help you out.
He's been on this board since '07.

"Sorry you are going through this hell. It totally [censored]. My prayers are with you.

I did all the things you are doing here: filling my wife's love bucket, being super nice, trying to change myself.

It didn't work. Not while she was having an affair. My pursuing behavior turned her off.

This is pursuing behavior. It goes against Divorce-Busting 101 and basic male/female dynamics. You are pursuing her WHILE she's having an affair. Consider that you are enabling your wife to cake-eat (benefit from having a loving, supporting husband AND another lover). You are acting like her plan B. Why should she choose? She isn't afraid of losing your love or having her little apple cart upset by you. You're the nice guy giving her what she wants. It's also true what women aren't attracted to men they don't respect.

Think about it.

Theoden"


---(G)GGG

[25yearsmlc]

Wow, I didn't see your advice coming!

1. Birthday week-end. I do have real plans and they work better without the kids so I'm not going to change them. I wanted to clarify to her that I did not make plans to spite her, mirroring when the same situation happened to me. It's too much?

Yes it's too much. Say you're "Sorry but" can't change these plans as they were made quite some time ago..." and MAYBE "hope you can find someone to watch the kids"...that's the most I'd express regret for her not wanting the kids on her birthday.

If the kids have seen the OM four days and one morning during their week with her, it tells me she doesn't need me to babysit to sleep with him.

2. Lunch. There are a few things that I want to discuss with her, including better coordination around the kids, so I actually wanted this lunch too. Last lunch was 5 weeks ago. I have to admit that I don't feel ready today (that's why I declined) but my mood can swing dramatically every half-day so I think Wednesday or Friday could work.

"can't today. X & Y work for me. Do either work for you?" Make NO mention of her mind reading/baiting you about how you MUST not want any lunches with her b/c you omitted suggesting another day...Geez....
(Is there an emoticon of an eye roll? I need it!)


I have my boundaries but I don't want my wife to think that I'm difficult when I'm really not trying to be. It's part of my 180 to be very kind to her, never to get upset or lend her intentions. I want her to see that I've changed, that I'm truly collaborative and kind. That's why I explain a bit why I said things that might upset her. Too much?

I get the 180 point and the need to show change b/c before all this, you were not so considerate. That's legit.

But as described above, you're showing enough change. Don't get into becoming a doormat to compensate for previous steamrolling, b/c it's not like it evens things out for you to be mistreated NOW b/c you mistreated her before.

Treat her right, & with warm respect. Expect the same. The End...

make sense?

[Zues126]

listen to 25. always.

My DB coach told me the opposite of controlling wasn't being a doormat. It was being collaborative.

[Mozza]

Wow, you guys are tough! I feel like I'm already holding back 95% of what I want to say. We have short, cordial communications and I hope to keep it that way. Ignoring her question about whether I'm reluctant to have lunch seemed too much. I told her I "agreed" to lunch and gave her two dates. I did explain that I had replied without alternative dates because I was in a rush though. This might have been too much.

I think there's much in the message from Theoden to Jeffrey that GoatGal pasted (thanks!): while she's with OM, nothing will get through anyway. This being said, I'm definitely not being super-nice to her.

In any case, we resolved both issues and I'm pretty sure she's still slightly upset. She didn't get her birthday weekend and I suspect she had big plans. Funny how the exclamation points and politeness go away when I can't enable her new life. I really had plans made months ago, but I don't feel any guilt for not saving her on that weekend.

She asked for a few things she had left behind so I jumped in to say I had "already thought" of sending her all of her remaining stuff by Friday. I wanted to state some element of initiative on my side, on top of implying that this would be the last such transfer ("think about what you left"). She doesn't react well when she loses control of the process, which seems like a good thing.

listen to 25. always.

I know! I'm so happy she has taken an interest in my sitch. I have great people advising me here. Thank you!

[Mozza]

Last night, a close friend told me that he would have rated the intensity of my relationship pre-BD at 8/10 because I was always very protective of my W, making clear that I loved her as she is. It's nice to hear, though at the same time I feel like my W should have known this. I go back to the bomb she dropped during the separation talks: "I didn't know you loved me this much". It goes to the love languages and I didn't speak hers (words of affirmation) enough.

[jim0987]

My W didn't know I was proud of her which seems the most absurd thing to everyone who has ever met me. I guess we just don't do a good enough job of telling the person who matters most.

[Little]

My W didn't know I was proud of her which seems the most absurd thing to everyone who has ever met me. I guess we just don't do a good enough job of telling the person who matters most.

BF told me our relationship had "no affection", which boggles my mind. I'm not sure if he's just choosing to forget it or what, but....I think it's normal for a WAS to see the past differently than the LBS.

It could be that you didn't do something or it could be that it's what they're choosing to see.

[Jefe]

My W didn't know I was proud of her which seems the most absurd thing to everyone who has ever met me. I guess we just don't do a good enough job of telling the person who matters most.

BF told me our relationship had "no affection", which boggles my mind. I'm not sure if he's just choosing to forget it or what, but....I think it's normal for a WAS to see the past differently than the LBS.

It could be that you didn't do something or it could be that it's what they're choosing to see.

I think they choose to dwell on that which was a sore spot with them and revise history to make the entire marriage about that. That takes the focus off of them and puts it squarely on us. Problem with that is just like we own a huge part in why our spouses left, they too own a huge part in their needs not being met. Its a 2 way street no matter which side of house the window is there you're peering in. Both partners own 100% of the issues at hand. It's "joint and several" not "joint and equal".