I am a woman too... and while filling her love bucket and all is well and good, if she is actively involved with OM, you do NOT want to be her fallback Mr. Nice Guy.
She will use this to further her own agenda.
I'm not saying to be a jerk, just find out where to draw the line that shows her you will not be disrespected.
Women appreciate a strong, assertive man with a heart of gold. But we do not respect men that let us get away with things we know they shouldn't.
I think being romantic and making her the centerpiece of your life IS exactly what we want. However, if we are involved with OM, this is not what we are wanting FROM YOU at that time.
We need to respect you before we can feel romantic with you.
I hope that makes sense.
Just my .02.
---(G)GGG
Fwiw, I'm with GoatGal, Wonka, Sandi and Train on this subject (all WOMEN, btw). There will be, we all pray, a time and a place for you to meet your wife's emotional needs, Jefe. Unfortunately, now is not that time. In her current wayward state, you are likely smothering her, and it's very likely that the very behaviors she would have WELCOMED from you at another time in your marriage, she now finds is killing attraction.
I have been following all along, even though I haven't been saying much. But I do not think that you can name-change "pursuit" into "romancing" and make it fit into DBing. It's more fitting of the "Piecing" stage, and you're just not there yet.
TY Starsky. I knew you've been watching and have been waiting since yesterday for you to come out of hiding. I felt it coming.
I'm just absorbing at the moment.
Understand. I am extremely torn. I trust Hope's direction and insight. Starsky, I value your experience and knowledge on the suject as well.
I trust you both.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
I do know this much. I simply cannot afford to have another negative, confrontational exchange with my wife at the moment. It will set us back miles.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
It's a hard stance to wrap your head around. There is a fine line between being assertive and being aggressive, between standing up for your values and being confrontational.
No one is advocating being confrontational. We want you to be assertive. This means you treat your wife with respect even though you don't respect her choices.
But you don't try and romance her while she is with OM. That is going to backfire on you, but the sad part is you probably won't realize it until much later.
Because, if she is getting what she wants, she's not going to complain. She is going to continue to eat the delicious cake you are serving. But when you discover that nothing is changing, she's still with OM and you're still here, you may try the assertive stance.
And she will get angry and push back as she would react if you did it now. You can save yourself a lot of time to draw the lines in the sand now.
You do want to avoid confrontation. That part is correct. If she gets angry about you doing what's best for yourself and your daughters, is that a bad thing? Does that mean you allow her to do as she will without any response from you?
Just things to think about. It probably sounds harsh, but I don't mean it to be. A lot of people come on here and want to believe that their situation is somehow different. That's usually never the case.
But a woman who is cheating on you does not respect you, and she cannot love you if she doesn't respect you.
I'm sure Hope would agree with that as well. I agree with much of what she has posted, but I feel some of it is being cherry-picked to mean that the key to salvaging your M AT THIS POINT is laying on the empathy and romance.
If you read the DB/DR books, that is NOT DBing.
That is something that would have helped your marriage prior to this point.
It is "marriage building" and something you would do if and when she is on board with R, has dumped the OM, and is not blatantly disrespecting you as her husband.
It is not a technique to use now.
You can be kind, compassionate, and assertive.
THAT is the combination women like. Leave out assertive and you've got the "Friend Zone" guy. You don't want to be that guy.
---(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
I’m glad you posted the text messaging between you and your wife. There is no such thing as random communication if your spouse is initiating it.
So my first question is: Who initiated the conversation?
If it was your wife then let's get to work.
I find the topic interesting. “Change all the clocks in the house please.”
This is the type of message you expect the day before daylight savings time or the morning of daylight savings time. But it is odd on the Sunday of daylight savings time. Especially when she came to the house that evening and was able to see if the clocks had been changed.
Just out of curiosity…in the past has your wife displayed a particular fascination with daylight savings time? If not, why didn’t you question this question?
Always take a second look at behavior when it isn’t part of normal patterns for that person.
The next text messages are also interesting. Please read them again.
9:00 PM W: Thank you for the socks W: Still on the hunt for the umbrella (we need a second "Disney" one for D5, our Wally World only had one)
If you and your wife were not estranged…would these sentences be conversation starters? Under “normal circumstances” what would a “normal conversation” look like if she would have sent these text messages?
The reason I ask is because your wife is not divorce busting. She will continue to engage in familiar behavior patterns. Which means if the above was a “normal” conversation starter in your relationship before it became strained...she may be attempting to engage you in a “normal” conversation.
What about the 9:12 PM text conversation and the one today at 7:40 AM?
To you these are boring exchanges. But there are people on this web site who haven’t heard from their spouses at all. There are others who only receive hostile communication.
But you are engaging in “boring” communication on a regular basis with your wife. Please take notice of this. Especially when it appears that your wife is looking for conversation starters.
The only way we will know if she is trying to engage you in conversation is to test the waters.
The next time she starts a conversation—respond conversationally.
For example:
W: Thank you for the socks M: How could I resist? It’s getting cold and I want your feet to stay warm! W: Still on the hunt for the umbrella (we need a second "Disney" one for D5, our Wally World only had one) M: Oh come on! I can find a Disney umbrella. Make it a challenge. Give me the “Disney” character you really want.
If she really just wanted to thank you for the socks she will respond appropriately.
W: Well, anyways, thanks.
But is she is attempting to start a conversation she will respond conversationally. The same with the umbrella. If she is giving you instructions—“We need this item”—Her response will be:
W: Any Disney umbrella is fine. (Which…by the way…isn’t true. Every child has their favorite Disney character and your wife knows this.)
Studies show women are verbal creatures. They use more words than men. If she wants to talk she will continue the conversation. If she doesn’t—she will shut it down. But if she wants to talk and you shut it down, she will stop talking.
So let’s find out if she is trying to talk to you.
Hi Jefe, Hello I am in a horrible place tonight. Tonight is Pool League night and she has the day off, so my mind is wandering and my PMA not very good. But, I'll live.
I’m glad you posted the text messaging between you and your wife. There is no such thing as random communication if your spouse is initiating it.
So my first question is: Who initiated the conversation? She initiated it about 5 minutes after she left the house yesterday.
If it was your wife then let's get to work.
I find the topic interesting. “Change all the clocks in the house please.”
This is the type of message you expect the day before daylight savings time or the morning of daylight savings time. But it is odd on the Sunday of daylight savings time. Especially when she came to the house that evening and was able to see if the clocks had been changed.
Just out of curiosity…in the past has your wife displayed a particular fascination with daylight savings time? If not, why didn’t you question this question? Honestly, I found it random in an odd sort of way, but not extremely out of the question for her to request I do it, but odd the request on a Sunday night after the fact and especially when it really does not affect her that much. I know for a fact that of the 2 clocks that have to be changed she was looking right at one when she was there. The other is in our bedroom.
Always take a second look at behavior when it isn’t part of normal patterns for that person.
The next text messages are also interesting. Please read them again.
9:00 PM W: Thank you for the socks W: Still on the hunt for the umbrella (we need a second "Disney" one for D5, our Wally World only had one)
If you and your wife were not estranged…would these sentences be conversation starters? Under “normal circumstances” what would a “normal conversation” look like if she would have sent these text messages? They seem pretty normal for her in our daily life prior to the separation.
The reason I ask is because your wife is not divorce busting. She will continue to engage in familiar behavior patterns. Which means if the above was a “normal” conversation starter in your relationship before it became strained...she may be attempting to engage you in a “normal” conversation.
What about the 9:12 PM text conversation and the one today at 7:40 AM? Both of these seemed out of context and pretty random. I even questioned the morning one. We would have talked about the job schedule the night before back in normal life.
To you these are boring exchanges. But there are people on this web site who haven’t heard from their spouses at all. There are others who only receive hostile communication. I absolutely realize this. And normally I'm receiving hostile communication too.
But you are engaging in “boring” communication on a regular basis with your wife. Please take notice of this. Especially when it appears that your wife is looking for conversation starters.
The only way we will know if she is trying to engage you in conversation is to test the waters.
The next time she starts a conversation—respond conversationally.
For example:
W: Thank you for the socks M: How could I resist? It’s getting cold and I want your feet to stay warm! W: Still on the hunt for the umbrella (we need a second "Disney" one for D5, our Wally World only had one) M: Oh come on! I can find a Disney umbrella. Make it a challenge. Give me the “Disney” character you really want. For her, this was some large symbol of "Acts of Service" for the girls. I just let her run with it. She continued the hunt this afternoon. I was happy to let her do it as she is starting to show some real concern about the girls, finally.
If she really just wanted to thank you for the socks she will respond appropriately. True. I just found it odd that of all the stuff I sent with her, it was the socks that peaked her interest.
W: Well, anyways, thanks.
But is she is attempting to start a conversation she will respond conversationally. The same with the umbrella. If she is giving you instructions—“We need this item”—Her response will be:
W: Any Disney umbrella is fine. (Which…by the way…isn’t true. Every child has their favorite Disney character and your wife knows this.)
Studies show women are verbal creatures. They use more words than men. If she wants to talk she will continue the conversation. If she doesn’t—she will shut it down. But if she wants to talk and you shut it down, she will stop talking.
So let’s find out if she is trying to talk to you.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
This afternoon, of the 2 separate times she was here today, I stupidly attempted to rub her shoulders without her initiation any physical contact and she was absolutely not receptive. Dumb pursuing move on my part, but when she came back later she was leaning close and just breaching personal space allot. Just weird. that's all.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
Btw Jefe - Those jerks pursuing your wife are in it for their own lusts and selfish motivations. They have no clue how to show the love you have proven you are capable of.
Thank you, FD. I know you're right.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
I was not telling you how should have responded in your last text messages.
I was using your text messages as examples on how to test the waters to determine if you wife is trying to engage in conversation.
In other words: If the text message indicates conversation respond with conversation.
Regarding the shoulder rubbing issue--Don't ever breach her personal space. This is just like dating. Look but do not touch unless given permission.
You were clear. I'm just not thinking clearly tonight.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
