So, I had lunch with a friend today and she gave me some good insight into the whole "threatening" piece that seems to make a lot of sense. I'm trying to digest the info, since I've been struggling to see where our M went wrong and what 180's I need to do.
Warning...lots of Mind-reading here
Basically, the 'threatening' is that even in this chaos, I probably appear to be 'in control' of my actions with me and the kids. The kid's part is the threatening piece, because I'm trying to keep them in a stable environment and am the one setting the boundaries with them.
To summarize, this friend was saying that it seems as if the W felt like she was 'beneath' me in the marriage. She had me on a pedestal, even though I didn't realize it. This friend knows me well and said that it wasn't me overtly acting that way; but how the wife perceived it probably due to self-esteem issues. Basically, I rarely get rattled and always had a good sense of self-confidence/esteem, well until she left. I'm a person that makes a plan and executes to it. I thought we always made plans together in our M, but I can see how that may not be the case from her point of view.
She's struggled with self-esteem in the past and she even told me at BD that her's was gone (because of me.) I didn't see her self-esteem dropping at all over the last year, but other friends have said it seemed that it was based on things she said to them (but not to me.) I'm wondering if she didn't show it to me, because that was part of the EA with the OM. However, it was on me to pick up on it, I was her H.
I can tell you, I never ever felt above her, nor do I think that I acted that way in communication. However, I think this may be right based on things she said during the BD. She's been super stressed and overwhelmed with the kids, work, self identity, etc. over the last year. I saw bits of that here and there, but nothing as bad as it seems to be looking back.
This is no excuse for whatever went on with the OM, but I see now that he is younger, her junior @ work, less mature, new at parenting, etc. I think that the roles swapped giving her the feelings that she wanted, but didn't have in our marriage.
Anyway, my problem is how do I 180 this or do I? I wouldn't necessarily change being confident, but even now with a S, it seems that I have a better grasp of the situation than her. Mainly thanks to this site... However, I wonder if this may be driving her away. We have limited contact and I've pretty much did LRT. However, now that I've moved to the 'act as if;' I'm afraid my showing of confidence moving on may cement her views, especially if she is struggling.
I'm not sure, just really confused. As my friend said to me, its something she needs to figure out. However, I don't want to sabotage by showing too much confidence in moving on, because in actuality I'm scared to death right now. I have said to her that I'm scared and confused a couple times since the S. Like I said, I've always seen her as an equal and in a lot of situations better suited than me (she's more spontaneous and can make decisions quicker) Is there anything I can do now? What are your thoughts?
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
W came to counselling with S, because he was sick and had to stay home from School. That would have been perfect excuse for her to skip
Counselling was much more interactive and cordial. We talked for a few minutes about finances after the session, and it went okay. First time that has happened after counselling.
W came into the house to drop off his medicine. First time in over 2 months that has happened
all good progress, since 3 weeks ago she refused to see or interact with me at all. I see how this is going to be a marathon.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
I've got a call into the lawyer to see if there's anything good or bad legally about confronting her.
What "good" are you aiming for? You are in a no fault state so you cannot threaten her...(and no, that would not help.)
We are in a zero-fault state, but I'm worried this may impact custody one way or the other. Basically, she has been checking out of the kid's lives also.
If she's really "Checked out"of the kids lives, then document who has the kids when, etc. But don't threaten a custody battle based on OM b/c courts see thru that s a controlling punitive measure that MANY spouses try (yes I'm a L but no, this is NOT "legal advice"). Except to say, discuss it with a L b/c chances are that OM is not at all relevant to custody issues, much to the dismay of many many LBSer's. (Unless they ML in front of the kids or do drugs, but the R itself is not an issue in most states so the "adultery charge", becomes meaningless.)
IF your 180s and changes are real, and IF you are or become a very attentive dad, it'll be hard for her not to reconsider her choice, and besides, most A's run their course in a matter of months. The PLAN: Be the better choice. Become a man only a fool would leave.
The phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" is a lie we tell ourselves when we choose not to forgive.
IF you and your w try to reconcile remember that you must get past this A.
IS that something you believe you could do or at least try? Be honest with yourself b/c if you can't, then you are putting yourselves thru more pain than you already have. Tell me more about your GAL and the "new you", please.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Yeah, I was just really scared from a legal standpoint. There are my views of her leaving the kids, as well as having them stay with friends/OM's GF/my parents so she could spend time with OM most while we were still together that has me the most upset. Also, she walked out within 3 days of BD and I stayed with the kids. Also, it seems like her parenting style since she left has changed a lot which I'm not too fond of, but I can't influence that.
As far as changes, that one has been really tough. I can see most of her opinions she didn't communicate with me during the marriage, which is part of the issue. However, talking with friends there are two things that they said she has mentioned. First was that I was controlling and second she didn't think she measured up to me in the M. Also, she complained to others about my help around the house. It's hard, because I have trouble understanding most of these and most friends even tell me it wasn't me per se, but say stuff like. "Well, that's just how she saw it, I don't agree with her. They seemed like normal M problems." That doesn't help now, but I've struggled to get any more constructive feedback.
Anyway, my changes. 1) I'm pretty much fully taking care of the house, kids, their school, finances, etc. since she left. As we've interacted more, I guess she's wanted to get more involved in these, but the first 3 months was NC from her on any of the above for the most part.
2) I totally backed off since she left. I stayed that way until she bought a house and sent separation agreement and that's when I confronted her about OM. We talked a lot after that and it seemed as if she was wanting to work on R, but then would say she wasn't later or when we were at counselling. This frustrated me and I screwed up and dropped the custody thing which made us regress. It seemed like she was using the reconcile of the R to get what she wanted from me.
3) I'm trying to work on setting boundaries with her so it doesn't seem like I'm being controlling. Most important to me are for kids and finances.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
As far as feeling inferior, that one has bothered me the most, because I really just don't see it in our R. She mentioned that she felt like I was the boss and she was an employee in an analogy. After she said that, I said that I always felt as if we were equals. Now that I see that she felt that way, I look back and I have a very direct communication method. Not unemotional or mean, but probably more closer to passive aggressive about things. I've never had anyone else say that I'm this way, so it's confusing. I guess I'm really critical on myself and I could see that maybe that came out In my interactions with her. I could see that maybe it came across as critical of her. I really am struggling with this one, especially now that we are S, since I'm not sure how to make a stand for things I feel are important with the kids, but also give her the space she needs to decide herself.
Last edited by MCS; 11/11/1401:44 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
I'm very committed to make this work. I look back and we had a really good relationship. The problem is that there was a fundamental communication barrier/issue that we never identified. I think she got overwhelmed trying to balance kids/work/friends/Relationships/self esteem, etc and I didn't see that she was in pain with it. I'm fully committed to try and fix that, if given the chance.
I can empathize with how this friendship with OM morphed into this over a long time period. If she's being truthful in telling me what happened, It was definitely friendship that became an EA that became a slight PA and then she got hooked and it caused her to think it was more than he was ready to commit to. I think for her to think that it could go further, she had to have checked out of our M.
Weird thing is she told me she feels emotionally unsafe with me, but told me all of these things about how she felt and how this progressed. However, I guess I was the one asking the questions, she didn't offer up most of this on her own.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
I'm very committed to make this work. I look back and we had a really good relationship. The problem is that there was a fundamental communication barrier/issue that we never identified. I think she got overwhelmed
trying to balance kids/work/friends/Relationships/self esteem, etc and I didn't see that she was in pain with it. I'm fully committed to try and fix that, if given the chance. If you read between the lines in your 3 posts here^^, you're NOT really owning any problems. At least not in comparison to her, & make no mistake, you DO compare her to you, every single time. Look at how you begin to say something that you need to work on, only to then zip right back to how SHE is actually at fault, or caused it, or does it more, or "doesn't communicate it" or brings it on or whatever. And btw, "but she never told me!" is almost never true, unless real fear or the belief that telling you would be futile, apply.
Or it's something a loving h really would not need to be told, like "I don't like being put down", "bossed around" "stop being so controlling", and or "when you raise your big voice, you intimidate me/wear me down/ badger me into agreeing, out talk me til I give in/it's Your way or the 'wrong way', and so on.
Women don't leave marriages b/c they are having trouble '"balancing life's" dimensions, at least not when they are ENJOYABLE activities and relationships...
I think SHE is saying You are critical of her. I think She feels put down by you, and a times perhaps criticized or even bullied. (Most bullies don't see themselves as just that, btw. )
Hey, seriously, I'm NOT trying to bash you here. But I concede that In DB terms, yeah this is a "2 x 4" - but it is b/c you are NOT hearing her.
You are actually resisting that. And you are Not taking a truly deep (& brave) honest inward look, and you are keeping score big time.
Scorecards do not belong in a marriage. They are destructive and keep us stuck in our anger or victimhood or bullying ways (b/c since we are 'right" we should "win")
Keeping score and Not hearing her, are perilous to your journey here.
I can empathize with how this friendship with OM morphed into this over a long time period. If she's being truthful in telling me what happened, It was definitely friendship that became an EA that became a slight PA and then she got hooked and it caused her to think it was more than he was ready to commit to. I think for her to think that it could go further, she had to have checked out of our M.
Weird thing is she told me she feels emotionally unsafe with me, but told me all of these things about how she felt and how this progressed. However, I guess I was the one asking the questions, she didn't offer up most of this on her own.
Do you see any validity to any of my comments? Dig deep.
Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 11/11/1409:18 AM.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Yeah, I need to keep giving it some thought. After BD, but before I found out about OM, I read DR and spent a lot of time thinking about these very things. However, I'm still struggling on figuring out exactly what to change. I have a few on the first page.
I wrote her a letter during the week of BD and I said to her that I got way too comfortable in the marriage. The positive comments were replaced with comments about everyday things, chores, bills, work, etc. I can see that emotionally, that she would have felt neglected there. We did have date nights, spent time together all the way up to BD, but in everyday life it was the daily grind.
When we did have disagreements, we used to treat them as debates almost. Both of us would lay out how we thought about the situation emotionally and factually and then see what was best for us as a couple. I can say that style changed once we had kids and less time. I can see when that happened and I kept the debate way of communication that it would feel controlling. Also, I do know that when a disagreement arose, I instantly got defensive of my position.
I'll keep thinking and I really appreciate your help. I've been trying to work with friends and even my IC to identify the 180 and core issues in the M, but your insight definitely makes me think of it a different way.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
"I look back and I have a very direct communication method. Not unemotional or mean, but probably more closer to passive aggressive about things."
A direct communication method and passive aggressive are very different things - may be worth you thinking some more about this area in terms of work on you?
Hope this is helpful - just struck me as I was reading about your sitch :-)
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
