I agree with Starsky on this on. Being positive and a great dad, and showing PMA could attract her back. Sending flowers and trying to be romantic, on the other hand, is pursuing. It will look needy.
This whole process s*cks. You need to detach and GAL.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
Again, I want to stress I did not tell Jefe to send flowers to his wife. I tried to explain the difference between romance and pursuit.
Although I respect how men view these definitions as the same thing, I think we may have identified a problem. The definitions of "romance" and "pursuit" are not the same. But I'm not going to get trapped in the weeds on this. I encourage Jefe to use common sense on this issue.
I would like to discuss the “Lasher” issue which, Jefe, I feel is a huge stumbling block when it comes to reconciliation.
Let me start by validating your emotions.
You are 100% right to want your wife to acknowledge how her words and/or actions crossed the line.
When someone lashes they are not thinking about the effect their words have on the other person. They are lashing to obtain a result. Once they achieve their goal they stop lashing. But because they were so goal-oriented during the fight, they are usually completely un-empathetic toward the person they destroyed while trying to reach their goal.
In fact, if you confront them they usually blame the person they lashed at. It was “your” fault because “you” hindered “me” from accomplishing “my” goal. If you would have (fill in the blank) then I wouldn’t have been forced to (fill in the blank).
This is maddening if you are on the receiving end because you want to say, “Your behavior crossed the line. You are psychotic.”
But if you do this you give the person lashing another goal: Prove you wrong. Because if you wouldn’t have (fill in the blank) then I wouldn’t have been forced to (fill in the blank) then you wouldn’t think my behavior crossed the line. And now the circle has begun and you are in a state on agitation all the time.
So let’s stop the circle.
This is why I want to validate your hurt. Because you need someone to validate your feelings of hurt.
You need someone to tell you that you have a right to be hurt by everything your wife did. You also need someone to tell you that she never had a right to threaten you with divorce and the destruction of your marriage.
This was a very mean thing to do. She took the most sacred thing you gave her—which was your heart—and used it as a weapon. Your spouse’s heart should be off limits in a fight.
When people use marriage as a weapon it has a nuclear bomb effect. Not only do you live through the destruction of the bomb but then you live in radio-active land which is virtually uninhabitable. And when you are living in an uninhabitable land the goal is to survive at all costs.
The reason why it is important to work on only changing you is because both you and your wife have been living in nuclear fallout.
Your wife will never see what she is doing to you because she is trying to emotionally survive just like you are. You think she has the emotional capacity to see the impact of her actions. She does not. No one does when they are in survival mode. This is why people come back years later expressing regret saying they felt like they were in a fog.
But if you begin the process of healing and take yourself out of emotional survival mode you give her permission to concentrate on herself.
Wait, I take that back. I did tell Jefe to give his wife flowers.
Sorry.
Please read this in the context of how it was written. It was to be supportive. I said to get a card (funny not romantic).
The point is to be supportive.
I strongly apologize if I gave the impression that I wanted Jefe to pursue his wife. I do not think this is a good idea. But I do believe he needs to show her they are still a team and he is in her corner.
When someone lashes they are not thinking about the effect their words have on the other person. They are lashing to obtain a result. Once they achieve their goal they stop lashing. But because they were so goal-oriented during the fight, they are usually completely un-empathetic toward the person they destroyed while trying to reach their goal.
In fact, if you confront them they usually blame the person they lashed at. It was “your” fault because “you” hindered “me” from accomplishing “my” goal. If you would have (fill in the blank) then I wouldn’t have been forced to (fill in the blank).
This is maddening if you are on the receiving end because you want to say, “Your behavior crossed the line. You are psychotic.”
But if you do this you give the person lashing another goal: Prove you wrong. Because if you wouldn’t have (fill in the blank) then I wouldn’t have been forced to (fill in the blank) then you wouldn’t think my behavior crossed the line. And now the circle has begun and you are in a state on agitation all the time.
So let’s stop the circle.
This is why I want to validate your hurt. Because you need someone to validate your feelings of hurt.
You need someone to tell you that you have a right to be hurt by everything your wife did. You also need someone to tell you that she never had a right to threaten you with divorce and the destruction of your marriage.
This was a very mean thing to do. She took the most sacred thing you gave her—which was your heart—and used it as a weapon. Your spouse’s heart should be off limits in a fight.
Hope, you make me feel as though you've been watching this entire marriage unfold right before you. That last paragraph just turned on the water works. Thank you, I feel like the giant weight on my head just got a little lighter.
Yes, our fights escalate to thermonuclear in a matter of seconds, like crazy fast. It always happens after a certain line is crossed (I never know what that is) and it ramps so violently that once the pin is pulled, there's no putting it back. Yup, you guessed it, ALWAYS my fault. Sometimes the pieces are so hard to put back together. This is not the first time she has held the marriage hostage and it hurts deeply every single time. I have a friend that always says "shoot the hostage" but that is a step I'm just not willing to take at this point.
She sent some texts 3 weeks into the separation that seemd like she had a clue what she had done and was trying to figure out how to piece it back together, but it was short lived when I pressed for more information.
Quote:
Your wife will never see what she is doing to you because she is trying to emotionally survive just like you are. You think she has the emotional capacity to see the impact of her actions. She does not. No one does when they are in survival mode. This is why people come back years later expressing regret saying they felt like they were in a fog.
Its the weirdest thing too, she simply cannot have something of huge magnitude be her fault its like it will permanently damage her if it is or something. My MIL is the exact same way. Very difficult to deal with sometimes. That being said, here's the thing. I bet a million dollars that if I changed my behavior, hers would be nothing to deal with. I have been an a$$ of a husband. I have been critical when I should have been kind, I have kept score when I should have kept her close, I have loved other things when I should have loved her, I have found fault when I should have simply built up the wonderful traits she has displayed to me over the years. In the last 8 years, she has filled my cup more than everyone else in my life combined. I have not returned the favor. I just pray it's not to late to love her like I should.
Quote:
But if you begin the process of healing and take yourself out of emotional survival mode you give her permission to concentrate on herself.
I'm trying so hard. I'm still emotionally swinging all over the place but I have gotten better at not letting her see it. I did cry in front of my D5 last night, I just could not contain it. They miss all of us together so much.
Hope, your name is very appropriate, because you have given me real hope.
Ready to roll up my sleeves and fix my marriage.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
I agree with Starsky on this on. Being positive and a great dad, and showing PMA could attract her back. Sending flowers and trying to be romantic, on the other hand, is pursuing. It will look needy.
This whole process s*cks. You need to detach and GAL.
I agree with all of you. And Sho, You're right I need to detach. It seems to be working for you well, right now. That gives me even more hope.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
On a lighter note, the wife has practically been blowing my phone up today. Mainly just financial/offspring related conversation but she has called to make sure that I know about things happening in her life right away, so that's new. I resisted sending the flowers this morning as I knew that was a poor choice but I did send a reply text, during one of our many conversations today, telling her to have a great day.
She was in a great mood when she dropped off the kids this evening and wants to go to a fall festival with us tomorrow as a family. That's new too. She made a point as she was leaving (stepped back in the room to make sure she had my attention) to make serious eye contact and smile, and say "Have a good evening". Glad I was keeping a PMA around her.
Then after she left, she has called 2-3 times just asking stuff that could wait. Mind you, this is the woman that doesn't talk on the phone.
Not getting my hopes up about anything, but glad she isn't acting like she hates me and the daggers aren't flying.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
"In fact, if you confront them they usually blame the person they lashed at. It was “your” fault because “you” hindered “me” from accomplishing “my” goal. If you would have (fill in the blank) then I wouldn't have been forced to (fill in the blank)."
The times since the separation I have been met with total retaliation and threats of divorce, FB changes, etc are the times I have asked her to see her part in it. She could be in a great mood, util I do that. Then, bam. We're over and I hate you. The first two weeks she at least admitted it happened but since then she says "You didn't see anything", "I didn't do that", "There were no pictures". I say "If I didn't find it and you didn't get caught, then why did you leave?" Her response: "Because we don't get along." and that is what she has told most of "our" friends. I don't think she has been honest with anyone. And basically what I'm hearing you say is I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for her to own it.
Thoughts to ponder.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
No Jefe, she is not going to own her words. In fact, she told you she is not going to own her words so stop expecting her to own it.
The good news is if/when you completely reconcile...she will own it. In fact, she will probably have shame over her behavior. But let her come to this on her own.
Forming a new conscience for her isn't your job.
Your immediate focus should be paying attention to when and how she opens the door for more intimacy.
Calling you is great. In fact it is wonderful. Talking is how we connect and bond with people. It allows immediate interaction and intimacy. I absolutely think it is a great sign she choose calling over texting.
She has given you permission to call her.
I assume you are going to the Fall Festival as a family tomorrow. Are you picking her up or is she coming to you? If you are picking her up then call and ask if she needs anything. The important thing to remember is your next contact should be a phone call not a text.
If you text then you just slapped down her gesture for more intimacy.
Tomorrow pay close attention to everything she does and mirror it back. If she kind of nudges you while walking, nudge her back and then gingerly reach for her hand. Pay attention to her body language. Detaching is good but in the proper context. Women hurt easily when they feel rejected. And your wife lashes.
If your wife gives you permission for intimacy pay attention to how much intimacy. It may only be playfulness. It could be holding her hand. It might be a hug. She will set limits. But do not mistake responding to her nonverbal ques as pursuing. It is courting. And unless you actively court your wife you will not have a wife.
But if she suddenly appears agitated don't get angry--pay attention to what may have agitated her. Is there a playful couple laughing and joking next to you? Then point to them and whisper, "That will be us again. I promise" and then turn to your daughters and say, "Did I ever tell you about the first Halloween party your mommy and I went to?" (or something like this)
This will reassure her that you have a future, shared a past, have a family, but more important it will change her focus to something more pleasant.
You can call it whatever you want, but Jefe "courting" or "romancing" his wife during this stage is still PURSUIT, and it's only going to smother her and push her away.
I have to say I agree with Starsky. Jefe, the WAS blows hot and cold during this time because they are confused and often cake-eating. They are nice out of guilt, or nice to get something from you (in my case, a weedwacker, free babysitting while he visited OW, etc.). I don't want to burst your bubble, and by all means it's GREAT that she is communicating more with you and wanting to do things as a family, because this is good for the kids. But no expectations, and NO courting. Let her lead the way.
M: 43 H: 39 D: 14 Married 15 Together 16 BD: 6/2014 S: 8/2014 OW revealed 10/2014 Instigated dissolution 12/2014, in progress So over it!
