my chance = HIS chance

[makingmagic]

Good questions Sandi~~ more headwork/heartwork homework .... LOVE IT!!

1) initially when I read if him agreeing with me = closure. I thought nope. Then I read the rest of your question... I do feel often the need to express myself or viewpoint further in order to see my point (not necessarily if I am right) ...... Hmmmmm

2) Yes, I am pretty much this way with others.... but, I think I became this way/developed since him..... again, hmmmmm

Since this site, I have come to realize that it comes across as argumentative... hmmmmm, grrrrrrr!

3) If he does not agree (or someone else), I do not feel its is a rejection of me. I love to hear the other opinions and do not feel its a personal attack or rejection ..... thank god!

When we were discussing the bid, I only felt rejection when he stopped communicating. Feeling rejected had nothing to do with the task, it was just a symptom of how the convo ended.

No... I would not say that disagreement = rejection in either business or personal.

Unofficially if/when he says inappropriate hurtful wording into his opinions, I have taken it personally (for about 10 mins) and then I am able to fluff it off & get past the hurtful stuff. However, since we have not argued like that in a very long time... I wonder what I would do/how I would feel about that now. I wonder if I would allow it to hit me personally..... hmmmm

OH.. I won't bring it up... we are past this now. I am not one who likes to fight and fight until the bitter end after the fact. I typically am that way while "IN" the moment. An old behaviour of mine is to not harbour feelings or resentment. Hell, I even forget that I was angry 15 mins later. I am an easy one to want to repair & get back to harmony & a loving state.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today at work he brings up an idea for an overnight getaway disguised as work. I am coming to realize that he does this as a way that we can write it off as a business expense. There is no REAL need for us to do this overnight work thing, we typically do this online. Knowing him, Its about escape, possible nice dinner opportunity, and a hotel experience together.... while being cheap. I think its also a cop out/lazy way of getting me away without being committed or inappropriate in the minds of others (friends/family), INCLUDING me!

I did not respond with a yes or no. Within a short while he asks me if I have looked further into the work event that would support his suggestion for the overnight... I say "no" and proceed to do so. Then he immediately proceeds his comments with expectation that I am saying Yes.... grrrr.

I am conflicted.... I want to go... I need a mini getaway too (work or fun). I want to know if this is a sex-escape, a romantic getaway with intent of reconnection or a work event.....GRRRRRR

I would love some suggestions on how to value myself and have an appropriate attitude (je ne sais quoi) and/or possible discussion or not... on this matter... (his lack of investment/commitment, calling it "work")

Conflicts:

If I "talk" and discuss the fact that I am not comfortable going without knowing what it means to him... = pressure to him

If I go and don't say something... I am too easy/available to his whims.

If I go... I am subject to sex (is this all he wants or is it more towards reconnection?)


Just before leaving work for the evening, I asked if he was going to enjoy some TV this evening, it gets turned around and he jokingly makes a sex-related comment & suggests that he is available and feel free for me to jump him anytime. I commented back along the lines that he could take that attitude/opportunity to "try" it on me too... (its not MY JOB to do the pursuit... 180). We both leaned into a kiss goodbye.

When I got out of my women's meeting this evening, it was so warm and nice out... I immediately wanted to call or text Xbf to share the night... (wishing we were at that point, too bad its considered pursuit on my part)... sad.

[makingmagic]

Hey Sandi... where did you go? More advice please..... others are welcome to chime in too!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today:

He asked me again if I wanted to go on Friday to work thing. I'm sure he could sense my apprehension. I have not jumped at ANY offer , because of his lazy or hidden ways. He was making it seem very "work like" and not about fun for us. I asked if we could talk for a moment and asked if this event was about "work" or ???. When I asked him about it, he was uptight & did not want to label it. Do I want to go or not? I said "no" when asked like that. He started carrying on with work type stuff, coming and going from the room. I commented that I thought that we were talking, and he told me that I could follow him as he has things to do. (This is "chasing" while he works and I refuse to do this (old behaviour)... but, I did). He wants to know why I need to define everything. I said that because I have come to realize that I am a person who needs closure and when I don't understand things, I keep trying to clarify. I said its not like he is making it seem like its about wanting time with me... He said, "thats obvious as we could be making this purchase online & not going for dinner & an evening out/over night" I said "no, obvious is when its not work related and its an offer for bed & breakfast stay, etc".

He does NOT want to commit to ANYTHING here. I want reassurances of his efforts towards R, how can I get this? His apprehension is scaring me. If he cannot commit, then neither will I!! <<<<< this makes me ANGRY!!

I told him that when he isn't obvious and clear then I get turned off and pull back. That if he has reservations, then that makes me have them too. He said he doesn't have reservations, that he is just going to go and have fun... Im making a big deal about it. That guys are like this. I told him that I don't want to assume & have expectations that it is better to be clear.

He needs to know that I do have reservations about HIM... that I am not so assured and available just because he offers. I am not sure how to show/display that. He just assumes everything and I naturally fall into play.... he has ALL control!

He also mentioned that its a good test before we go to Miami.

He is testing me.. he has the control. What about my testing him? He needs to know that he is failing my test if he cannot commit to even simple things like reassuring me.

[makingmagic]

just off the phone with a woman from my group.... she suggests sending a message that is clear:

"I've been thinking, spending an overnight with you will provide us BOTH the opportunity to test and see how things go."

or "now that you have cleared things up, I am looking forward to our get away. This will provide us both the opportunity to test & see how things go"

or something along those lines.... suggestions?

[sunshinelewis]

Mm quit following this man around like a puppy begging for attention. I am harsh with u because I was you and it's sickening. If you really want those things u just mentioned then drop his butt like a hot potato......stop asking questions, stop begging for attention and Get a Life Totally witnout him. Stop letting fear hold u back. If u do this, u will really see who he is and where u stand on his list of priorities. Men r hunters and u hon r def not a challenge. U want to be but u don't listen......so therefore u will continue to go round and round with him. Next yr. same time same place I will know
where to find u. Sry just the way it is.

[makingmagic]

Hi Sunshine...Tx for your input.

Yep... I did follow him around like a puppy trying to finish our convo. He used to ask me to do that before & I didn't like doing it back then either. I wish I had said, that I would prefer to finish the convo when he has time to talk.

I see your point (& a few others) who agree with you to Drop his butt, etc....I see how that could possibly work. However, I am not prepared to do that at this time, as I did agree to "seeing how it goes" (on his terms). I would like to try this through to Christmas.

Yes, men are hunters. I do not feel that the approach above is the ONLY way to present him a challenge... there MUST be ways to do this while "seeing how things go".

I want to be a challenge.... are there any other ways on my terms? my comfort?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am also thinking of NOT saying anything about his "testing". Maybe by saying nothing possibly leaves him questioning the unknown. Me constantly shoving my feelings in his face, might also add to his "pressure", and I appear weak. He won't take my comment seriously and dismiss/disregard.... so whats the point. However, in the background I will be testing him too. I don't need to broadcast it.

So, if/when he asks again today... I guess I will just say "yep, I guess we can see how it goes".... not a big long story to go with it!

[makingmagic]

well, thats that, for now.

He called & asked again... I said what I said above, but I wish I had said it with pause/reservation... as it would have had better impact. He seemed happy that I said what I did.... He probably only heard yes..... not much I can do now.

[claire7]

MM,

You have gotten a lot of really good and honest feedback from some very smart folks. It seems to me like you want your situation to magically change without having to do any of the (difficult) stuff to make it change.

I don't know you at all, but I have read through your thread. And I wanted to tell you, as kindly but as honestly as possible, that your approach to your R comes across as very immature-- it reminds me of myself in high school.

You will be so much better off if you start spending time looking inward, figuring out who you are, what you want, establishing a life and healthy relationships outside of this man.

It's hard to see you go around in circles, especially when there have been so many people looking out for you and trying to help.

Have you spoken to a DB coach? Are you in IC?

I would urge you to explore why you are so willing to let yourself be strung along by this man, who's maybe not so evil, but doesn't seem to cherish you in the slightest.

Your thread is tough to read. I feel for you, I really do. I wish you would value yourself more.

Respectfully,
Claire

[makingmagic]

Hi Claire.. tx for your comments.

Yes.. I have gotten a lot of good feedback. I do want my situation to change, and it has...it has gotten him back, just not fully...yet I am and have been doing the stuff to make things change & it has and so has he.

Some others have the opinion that I am missing a lot of the magic that happens because I am analyzing too much. To just enjoy the moments without thinking where it will lead.

I hold Matt's opinion in my head and do my best to act on this: " I want him in my life IF he wants the same thing that I do... but, at the same time if he is not willing to give me what I need, I will have no problem going elsewhere for it."

I agree somewhat in your opinion about cherishing me... he does, just to a point. This is what I want to change. <<< I realize it comes from me valuing myself more.

Valuing myself more is a discipline action that I can't seem to maintain. I get wishy washy as my heart tells me to value my family more... UGH... I will get back on track.

I will go & enjoy myself on this overnight adventure. However, I will hold myself in a position of reservation... not be so easy.

[sandi2]

Well I can see how you would not feel very special with the way he presents this "offer". To be very blunt, he sounds like he just wants to get laid. Then when it's time to return to work, everything will resume back to how it's been......and that will cause more emotional frustration for you. I mean, the least he could do is to make some sort of reference to having time for romance.....but he steers clear of it. As usual, he makes it appear as if you are the accessories that come with the job.

Does he need to make a commitment in order to spend a weekend with you? I suppose that is up to you. From the way I read your post, he was uncomfortable just admitting it would be a romantic time for the two of you. I simply don't get it, unless he is afraid you will take it and run with it. He's not ready for that much yet.

I think his way of handling it makes you feel kind of cheap, maybe. You want him to man-up and tell you he wants you, instead of this beating around the bush about it. You may be able to tell he wants you....but a girl just likes to be told sometimes.

But here's the thing, MM. I don't think he's the kind of guy you can try to force him into anything he doesn't want right then. You may wish you could put enough pressure on him that he would at least make you feel you were valuable enough that he won't let a "label" scare him down. I mean, seriously! I believe if you told him "no", he would say "Okay then, cheers!" and be gone on his own. Now, it may cause him to consider that MM has really changed and he needs to get a different game plan, IDK.

I can't really tell you what to do b/c you need to make the decision. If it were me, I would probably tell him, "Thanks for the offer, but I have decided to not tag along on trips with any man who wants to use me in his private times as a tax write off. I find it rather insulting if he can't value me enough to label it what it is, at least to my face. And if this is the case with you.....then you have my answer". But, MM, that's just me and my personality.

I am crazy enough to believe that if you hold out for what you want, he will eventually realize you are not going to settle for his measly crumbs. But if you decide to go this route, then you don't need to play anymore footsie games with him. He may think after the episode in the bedroom the last time, this is the next step. An overnight hide-away that he can count off as a business expense. Who wants to be some man's business expense?

He is not clear b/c he doesn't want you to make more out it. He wants to get laid without a commitment of something more. I think men have been like that since Adam (who really didn't have a say about it..... )

[ericmsant2]

If it were me, I would probably tell him, "Thanks for the offer, but I have decided to not tag along on trips with any man who wants to use me in his private times as a tax write off. I find it rather insulting if he can't value me enough to label it what it is, at least to my face. And if this is the case with you.....then you have my answer". But, MM, that's just me and my personality.

BINGO! Me? I would say/do the same thing as Sandi would do if it were her. That said, as I mentioned to you I think that maybe if I change my approach it would help you achieve what I believe is your primary goal (no matter what the cost), which is to get him back.

So......

MM, if you want to feel close to him, if you want him to feel validated. Then go. All you can do IMO, right now is to allow him to dictate all of the shots. That is...unless you prefer to keep playing the game of...what do I do if he does X, what do I say if he does Y.

So why not just go with him. Have a good time. Maybe...just maybe....tomorrow....or next week....or next year....or in 5 years...he will realize what he has (not sure how he will do that, having never "really" lost you but hey that's just me).