The DB coached thought the approach was working b/c my W clearly is very hesitant for "more of the same" from me. Going more "dark" could be interpreted as me being like I was before (in my W's view, not interested in our R, not finding her to be attractive, not looking at her the way that I did when we first were married). Letting my W sleep on me could allow us to create a connection, which is especially important since she is pulling back from the OM (a little).
Let's start with what has hurt my situation... - anytime I do anything controlling or "push my agenda" (my W's words) - breaking into her phone two times...she HATED this and SPEWED hatred after but that is also how I found out about the OM and proved that I was not crazy - When I have not given her space (has not happened since the very beginning of this "wonderful" journey)
What do I feel has helped... - quitting martial arts and spending more time at home - being more relaxed overall (e.g. after work, having a glass of wine, making dinner, talking) - Sitting and talking with my W about all topics (including us) - being a better father (I was also a good father but my kids continue to comment about "new" dad vs. "old" dad - being less anxious about schedules, money, etc. - when I pull back, she definitely reacts and gets nicer and tried to cozy up to me, but I think it is because she is afraid of losing me, not because she wants me necessarily - She reacts positively when I am just nice and kind but give her space - When I am not eager to be with her to do stuff, which just shows that I am moving forward
Of course none of this has caused her to stop the A and be more transparent with me. Like I said earlier, I know (based on her texts and her significantly less travel to NYC) that she is trying to "cool" it with the OM to some extent. But that still is not ending it with the OM.
When we talked about the D the other day and what I learned from the mediator with whom I met, I told my W that this would the oddest D that they have seen because we likely would be "holding hands" while signing the divorce papers. Then, as she left for work, I walked up, grabbed her, gave her a super passionate kiss (and she kissed back) and then I left for work. I know, this is pursuing...but I wanted her to see that I still found her attractive (one of her complaints) but my actions with the mediators, setting up meetings, asking her for her availability to make these meetings, etc. are showing her that I am moving forward towards a divorce.
so, I am ready for the 2x4s....
in all seriousness, I truly appreciate everyone's feedback and support. I hope some day to be a success story and can repay back the efforts that all of you have put forth.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
Then, as she left for work, I walked up, grabbed her, gave her a super passionate kiss (and she kissed back) and then I left for work. I know, this is pursuing...but I wanted her to see that I still found her attractive (one of her complaints) but my actions with the mediators, setting up meetings, asking her for her availability to make these meetings, etc. are showing her that I am moving forward towards a divorce.
so, I am ready for the 2x4s....
No lumber from me; I actually think that was a super-cool move!!
"- when I pull back, she definitely reacts and gets nicer and tried to cozy up to me, but I think it is because she is afraid of losing me, not because she wants me necessarily"
Who cares? None of us feel loving towards our spouses 24/7. Don't worry about the why's and learn to enjoy the moment. Besides, I thought the idea was to make her afraid of loosing you. It's working. You are way too much like me and over analyze the crap out of everything. It always ends up being my undoing.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
totally fair point, but my concern is that I am giving her more opptys to cake eat. If there were no A, I would agree with you. But with the A in play, it is just cake eating.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
totally fair point, but my concern is that I am giving her more opptys to cake eat. If there were no A, I would agree with you. But with the A in play, it is just cake eating.
As men, with our pride and egos, we're often very concerned with being made to be the "schmuck." Here's some notes from my personal archives that might help you a bit, Sho. Maybe some of it will apply:
On “having a plan,” and “The Schmuck Factor”:
I think you let her know that you are here for her when she is ready to do the work necessary. She clearly isn't ready to do that right now.
It would convey weakness if you were to be supplicating towards her while she was still actively cheating on you, and disrespecting her boundaries. Letting her know that you are willing to suck it up, forgive, love unconditionally and do the hard work of reconciliation -- when she is ready -- does NOT convey weakness, it conveys character and strength.
Many, many people confuse "unconditional love" with "doormat-without-boundaries." It is entirely possible -- and NECESSARY -- to demonstrate unconditional love and forgiveness, within a framework of healthy boundaries.
Do you not love a child unconditionally, while at the same time not allowing them to use obscenity when speaking to you? Do you not love a spouse, while simultaneously not allowing them to berate you in front of another couple?
Those are just two silly examples, but I think this is where you're getting hung up. Us men have a REALLLLL hard time with the whole "schmuck factor" thing, and it really rears its head when there is infidelity involved. We don't like to be made a fool. But if your "standing" for your marriage is PART OF A PLAN -- YOUR plan -- then who's the schmuck here? You take a position of "Yes, I am, at the moment, deciding to stand for my marriage, even though my wife is having an affair and is refusing to admit it and work at the marriage, but I have made this choice to do this FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, and I will hold out as long as I can, all the while trying to lay out and enforce healthy boundaries for me and my children. My wife is an adult, I cannot control her, and I'm praying that she comes to her senses soon, before my love for her fully runs out, but I can hold on for "x" months and I will do so, to the best of my ability. This is MY decision, this is MY stand, and I am doing it with boundaries, legal/financial protections for me and my kids, and for a finite period (uncommunicated to spouse -- just tell her "I won't wait forever") of time."
My wife asked me both during -- and after -- her affair, why I was fighting for her. Why I hadn't kicked her out immediately. I told her:
- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";
- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;
- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;
- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;
- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.
When you lay out (and maybe even write down), what YOUR OWN reasons are, and give yourself an internal deadline (6 months, one year, whatever) . . . then I think, as a man, we can feel like WE are executing a plan, and that we're not being a "schmuck."
I hope your family knows how lucky they are to have you.
That is another one that is going in my saved file.
For me it's, God purposely put this woman in my life and He has extended more grace to me than I can measure. Patience, grace and unconditional love is the example of God's perfect love. I feel compelled to extend that to my wife until He says it's time to quit. That's strictly my position on my situation and not a recommendation for anyone else. You've got to follow your own heart and conscience.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
Totally agree, Jefe. I try to support people in whatever they want to try to do, while challenging them on some of their assumptions along the way. I'm fine with long "stands" as long as they are accompanied by strong boundaries, and I"m CERTAINLY not going to stand in someone's way if they feel God Himself is leading them one way or another!
