Magingmagic, where'dja go??

[Matt165]

MM,
"He has such a cocky quick/sarcastic/funny attitude that challenges me and my self-worth."

Read that over and over again and let it sink in. If you love someone, if you care about someone, why would you challenge their self-worth? I get it. He's smart and cocky and has all the "bad boy" charm but if he uses that to make you think less of yourself HE DOESN'T LOVE YOU!! I'm so sorry MM but if he causes you to doubt yourself than he isn't the right person for you. Love lifts you up. It makes you feel BETTER about yourself. It makes you want what's best for the other person. It doesn't use wit and charm to keep them in their place.

Listen, he is a guy. Every guy I know that was in "love" wanted to protect his GF, to be with her, to give her what she wanted. You are in for a life time of hurt if you allow him to keep acting this way. MM, I know you don't want to hear this but you need to get away from this guy.

Also, what do you mean when you say you weren't "...in the right mood.." to discuss your business deal? MM, haven't you heard what everyone has been screaming at you about protecting yourself? I don't care what "mood" you're in, do not pass up a chance to get that finished! You just told him last night that he has permission to keep putting you off on getting it finished, don't you see that? Put yourself first for once! I'm not going to go into whether or not you really want the business deal to get done as that would leave nothing holding you back from tossing him. Just think about you and what is best for you and do it!

[makingmagic]

What is best for me is... to start with getting my own house.

Somewhere along the threads I must have painted a bad picture of him.... he is not as you all seem to suggest he is.

Sunshine... he is not keeping me around until something better comes along. He has already decided to put forth the time/effort into us. He loves me and wants our 20 year relationship to work out. I am sorry that your situation didn't work out for you.

Matt... His cocky attitude is his charm. It is not out to destroy me. He just has confidence where I don't. He isn't "using" it to make me feel less... You have the wrong idea of him. It is due to MY own self worth, because of BD and separation that has caused ME to be weak. He is that in "love" guy. He does want to protect me & be with me & give me what I want. <<<< I know this, lived this and am starting to see it happen again (when I don't push). He wants to take care of me (include me in the business success) , he wants me to succeed. He wants me around his family again.

As for the business convo... I guess I should have indulged in that convo.

Pearl, as you are jumping in late on my thread... you are missing the part where I did give up on him & didn't give him the time of day for a couple weeks too. The nonsense stopped then. He suggested exclusive dating, and thats what we are doing.

He is very eager for us to take a vacation or two together so we can be together. He talks about how nice it will be (romantically) and to see how we get along without work.

He is asking for a natural slower progression of things & not jump back into "OLD US"

He is asking to take it slow. <<<< I need to DO THIS!

I agree & accept that I need to put myself first. Think about me & what is best for me & DO IT. <<<< I will work on this!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As much as I don't want to buy a house without him, I also get excited and anxious to be living MY new life. I feel that this will help me have the confidence I need for myself. I feel it will totally enroll me back into a normal life that includes groceries, house cleaning, laundry (like everyone does). I won't have the time to "focus" on him. I will be BUSY... painting, decorating, entertaining, making dinner, being with my daughter in a normal setting again. HE will want to be a part of this.

Upon reading DB techniques... its my understanding that when reconnection begins again that the LBS should accept some but not all offers. To take it slow. Still GAL and to be patient.

I need to see how/where this goes with him, without putting pressure. As mentioned I have pushed in our past & its time I see what HE really wants with me. To do this, I must allow a time frame to allow him to come forward. To allow him to do the work. To allow him to prove to me. .... to win ME back.

Looking ahead, Thanksgiving & Christmas is a nice time to be spending with someone..... its a natural and loving time to be together. I do think that this loving/family time could help him come back faster.... this is what a friend suggested.

The way to do this is not totally "step by step" clear, other than to do as Michelle suggests by accepting "some" not all offers. Also, by putting me first and having other things to do.

I appreciate all the comments, and will keep myself on guard. I am not putting my head in the sand, as the old MM would easily do. What you are suggesting could be possible. Therefore, I will really watch him & myself & the dynamics. .... He is lucky to have me in his life. <<< I will wear this today!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

He just randomly called... inviting me to go enjoy a small window of sunshine with him (getting rain later on) and go for a convertible ride. I didn't jump at the offer. I did say call me later about it. After yesterdays "pressure", I am surprised that he doesn't want to run away from me. I am obvious inclined to want to say yes and go... but be more protective of myself. Not be so "easy" and giving of my love & affection. If I were to say no...it would seem awkward & unnatural, as what possible real reason could I have for not wanting to skip work & enjoy time off. <<< this is where I could use some ideas.

[Starsky309]

MM,

We have 2,500 posts going back a year and a half, with some really detailed blow-by-blow accounts from you as to his actions, statements and attitudes.

Nearly everyone here has formed the same opinion about him, and about the nature of your relationship and its dysfunction.

The fact that you don't see it is part of the dysfunction.

For the record, I don't think he's evil or even necessarily meanspirited. I just think he's lazy (emotionally), has a HUGE commitment issue, and doesn't value you as much as you deserve to be valued. And I think that will never, EVER change (except for a percent or two here and there, around the edges) until you:

a) REALIZE it; and

b) TRULY move on, as Pearl did.

That you are no closer to that today, 2,500 posts later, should be alarming to you. But instead you just say we're all wrong.

Starsky

[makingmagic]

AWESOME Starsky.... I agree. I think he is lazy (emotionally) as I have enabled it, has a HUGE commitment issue (which he wants to overcome... on his terms, and doesn't value me as much as I deserve... YOU are right!!

I am not saying anyone is wrong.....

a) I do need to REALIZE MY worth!

Somewhere along the threads I must have painted a bad picture of him. I know that I am not good with my words.... he is not as you all seem to suggest he is. I am open to hearing how he may or may not be. I am open. I am seeing his changes. I cannot say he is 100% of what I want from him.... yet. But, I do see some progress. I do not have rose coloured glasses on. I see him as a person who is just getting his land legs back, after being on such a stormy ship. He is testing the waters with me. I fail to see how he is any different than the others who come out of MLC. He is still selfish, trapped, and driven by our business. I see him trying to share with me. I see him looking for ways to get out of his trapped feelings (2yr plan). I see him stopping to smell the flowers (with me) and not be so "business" 24/7. These are 180's for him. I am not saying he is better, just trying to change & including me in the process. Last year at this time, we were barely speaking and there was nothing to think he was ever coming back. He has come a long way.

I am very skeptical and holding back. He needs to prove himself to me. I do remember how he has hurt me. I know, I still cannot BANK on his words. I want him in my life, IF he wants the same thing I do. (I am listening to what he wants). If he is not willing to give me what I need (on his term, without my push/demand)...then I will be OK & done.

[Starsky309]

I give up. Truly, I just give up.

[Georgiabelle]

MM,

You have received such wonderful wisdom from many. Please know that the 2 year plan may turn into the past 20 yr plan. I don't say that with malice-just honesty.

I don't think you've painted a bad picture. He doesn't sound like a deplorable human being. Just sounds like a guy who knows you are waiting for him and he can do anything and everything he wishes.

I am glad to hear you are okay. Good luck to you.

[makingmagic]

Starsky... You confuse me... I agree with you & then you give up??? What kind of response did you want from me?

Gbelle... I will not allow the 2yr plan turn into a 20 year plan. I am looking at a time frame of possibly Christmas.. and to see what he offers for the new year. If I don't hear what I need and see major progression towards it, then I am done.

Yes.. I have received a lot of wisdom from many many caring people on this site. I truly appreciate everyone and their experiences.

Yes...he likely feels that I am "waiting" & like he can do any thing and everything he feels. I don't understand how that makes him any different than ANYONE else on this sight. All MLC are selfish & feel entitled. All LBS are trying to be a lighthouse.

What am I doing that is so wrong?

I am not defending him.

When I state that I am careful, it means I am being careful. How is my situation so different then the others on here... can you explain it G-belle? or anyone?

[Starsky309]

Somewhere along the threads I must have painted a bad picture of him. I know that I am not good with my words.... he is not as you all seem to suggest he is.

This ^^^ is not defending him? This is not disagreeing with what others are trying to tell you?

Just because you preface a disagreement with the words "I AGREE" doesn't negate the subsequent disagreement and justification. And you do it ALL THE TIME.

It's maddening, and there's simply nothing else I can possibly say to you that will help you "get it." And so, since I never want to just badger someone, I will wish you luck and Godspeed, MM.


Starsky

[makingmagic]

Starsky,

I'm not very good at understanding things... from what you wrote I think you are saying that I just say "I AGREE" when I really don't.

If that is what you are saying... its not true.

If this is not what you are saying.. then I am even more frustrated and confused.

I do agree with ALOT of what has been said.... therefore I am choosing to be cautious in my approach with Xbf. I do not see him as a bad person. He is a selfish person. I do not see him as a conscious calculating and manipulating person..... some of you do because of your own bad experiences (I get that and am able to be aware of what to look for). I see him as a person who wants what he wants and isn't allowing me to steer him/us anymore. I see and hear from a person who was happy in many ways within our 20 year relationship but wants changes.

I agree that I am soooo wrapped up in him and my relationship status that I lose myself and forget my self worth. I know and am working harder at keeping this in check. <<<<< this is why I am moving forward with my agreement & purchasing my own house.

~~~~~~~

When I came back to this site & Matt suggested:

You need to remember your DB basics. They worked well for you as he is back to wanting a R with you again. Don't slip back into your old patterns.

What happened that now people think I need to run from him? Unlike sooooo many others on this forum He is not a cheater (he has been faithful), hasn't spent/wiped out our savings account (offers for me to use it ALL to buy a house & he will even offer what he can to accommodate), hasn't mistreated my DD (many children are abandoned) & yet no one tells them to run from those spouses... I don't get it.

And as of lately, is wanting to spend time with me to "see how it goes"... to see if we can be happy & have fun. To go on a vacation with. To spend time with his family.

???????????????????????????????????????

All I have been trying to do is to keep myself from slipping back to my old patterns.

Ohh... to add, and when I say I want to see him prove himself to me...I feel no one believes me.

[ericmsant2]

I found a few things on line that I thought may help you….

Abusers and manipulators

An abuser is a grand manipulator and will sulk, threaten to leave, and emotionally punish you for not following their idea of how things should be. An abuser will try to make you feel guilty any time you exert your will and assert what is right for you. At times the abuser may appear to be apologetic and loving; the abuse begins again when the abuser feels he or she has your forgiveness.

Cycle of abuse
Emotional abuse, like other types of abuse, tends to take the form of a cycle. In a relationship, this cycle starts when one partner emotionally abuses the other, typically to show dominance. The abuser then feels guilt, but not about what he (or she) has done, but more over the consequences of his actions. The abuser then makes up excuses for his own behavior to avoid taking responsibility over what has happened. The abuser then resumes "normal" behavior as if the abuse never happened and may, in fact, be extra charming, apologetic and giving – making the abused party believe that the abuser is sorry. The abuser then begins to fantasize about abusing his partner again and sets up a situation in which more emotional abuse can take place.

Blames others - If your significant other always blames everything on someone else, namely you, this may be a bad sign. It is not a sign of a healthy relationship if your partner never takes responsibility and never admits to being at fault.


A few more interesting tid bits…

How can you recognize a selfish friend or partner, and how do you stop them from affecting your life?
Selfish people are always lovable, nice and really sweet. It’s true, they really are. For all you know, you may be in love with a selfish person right now, or perhaps you have a best friend who’s selfish. Unfortunately for you, the traits of a selfish person aren’t easy to notice, because they cover their darker side so well. But as the relationship starts to grow, you’d start to feel emotionally weak around this person. And before you know it, they could suck the happiness out of you, and all you can do is watch helplessly.
What makes a person selfish?
A selfish person is one who cares only for their own pleasures, even if it causes pain to someone else. They have no consideration for anyone else, and worry only about their own comfort. Selfish people are well mannered and nice to everyone, but they’re nice only as long as they get something more back in return from the people around them. The irony of it all is that a selfish person wouldn’t even know they’re being selfish. They’d just assume they’re nice people who care about their own happiness more than anything else. But in their pursuit of their own happiness, they carelessly and intentionally walk all over the shattered hearts of any loving person around them.
One of the easiest ways to recognize a selfish partner or a friend is their trait of always extracting more from you, and yet, they never give anything back to you in equal measures.
Selfish people aren’t selfish with everyone
Selfish people subconsciously pick and choose the people they would want to use and trample on. They don’t go looking for people to hurt. But just like a wild animal’s inner instincts, if they come face to face with a caring and emotional person that they see as prey, they use them and abuse them until the relationship eventually falls apart or they find someone better to prey on.
If you come across as intimidating or emotionally closed off to a selfish person, they’d never ever dream of using you. Instead, they’d suck up to you and try to win your affection.
The mind of selfish people
A relationship is an exchange of emotions. In every successful relationship, both partners give and take from each other in equal measures without keeping count. And everything’s just perfect.
But when one partner stops giving back to the relationship, the relationship starts to fail.
When you’re in a relationship with a selfish person, they would continue to extract your love and your affections. But they’d stop giving any love or affection back in return which would leave you feeling weak, unappreciated and miserable.

Signs that your partner is using you
1) Wants space…a lot of space.
2) Behaves like a friend
3) Your not introduced as his partners
4) He’s confused about your R status
5) He talks about his complicated life
6) He is willing to do thing but only on his terms.
7) He dominates the R
8) He wants you to listen but not the other way around.
9) They always squirm out of helping you when you need their help.
10) A selfish friend or lover never commits to anything unless they can get some benefit or favor out of it. They would never do anything selflessly for your benefit.

MM, I can spend all day trying to find things to help you. I think everyone has said it best……

Until you really recognize what is happening to you there is not much anyone can do. I would suggest that you read your threads again.