Wife Still in MLC but has now left #4

[Matt165]

Wow, T2, you really have a way of putting things into perspective in a very positive way. Thank you for that quote. It makes so much sense. Time to take the bull by the horns so to speak.

[Mighty]

Go, Matt, go!!! There you are! Yes, that is part of their M.O. They act like they are the victim, that they are entitled, and they don't care how the run us over. Screw that! It does not mean we need to put up the biggest battle. Sometimes, it is easiest to step out of the way and let them run into the wall.

She is creating this. She has to live with this. Dig deep, Matt. What do you value here that you can control? Save you energy for the things you really need to.

Appreciate what you do have, your time with d14, your future, which is YOURS! Don't let her control that anymore. Some things we just cant control. We can't control what happens in the future or with someone else (Did we learn that the hard way, or what?!) What you can control is your feelings, emotions, reactions, and happiness. Don't count on her or anyone for that. A matter of perspective, I say. Yes, easier for me to say than do, but I get it Matt. I am there with ya! I have to remind myself that all the time. When my thoughts start to get the best of me, I try so hard to recalibrate my thinking. Little by little, we get stronger. Then you will realize that some things that used to bother you, no longer do! It is one step at a time, Matt. I see you getting stronger; keep at it!

[Matt165]

Thank you Mighty!
I needed to hear that today!

[Mach1]

I shouldn't....eh...what the hell....

Hi Mach,
Umm, why is what she doing the "right" thing or "wrong" just because it's different than my plan? Well, for starters it is wrong to take more than your share in any situation. In a community property state it should be very cut and dry 50/50. That includes EVERYTHING. To her anything that we acquired during the time that I was the only one working should be 50/50 (or better towards her) and anything we acquired in the time since she went back to work should be ALL hers. Not only doesn't it make sense, it goes against the law. I do get that what you are saying is that this is the way she see's things, I just don't think any "rational" person would. (And I know she's not rational but isn't her lawyer at least rational enough to tell her that she is out of line?)

Is it really ...wrong ?

No, it isn't wrong...


Is it fair ?

Who said life was fair... ??

You are attaching emotion, to inanimate objects.

Her Lawyer ??

Works FOR her, same as your does for you. She says to attack, and her Lawyer attacks...

You say to attack, and yours attacks for you...

Rational ? A Lawyer ? Really ????

: )

I would agree that the one thing different is that I'm not living there except for the fact that, even now, she says it wasn't as much me as it was that it wasn't "happy" where we lived. Of course that is what she says and that is meaningless so....(nor am I hurt by it any longer. If she really can't see how hard I worked for her, how much I tried in our M, that's on her!)

And you believe everything that she says....

The one thing different is you....yes

With you, and I see it here, is that you expect...

You expect fairness, you expect certain behaviors from her, you expect your Marriage to succeed, no matter how much or how little work you put in.

And when those expectations fail, there is judgement on her because they failed....

You show it here, so I'm sure you show her....

And when you show judgement, you show superiority, as in you are so much better than her, because YOU did it differently...

And don't argue, because you show it here....

YOU may not see it, because your way is the only way that you see things...

And that is okay, right up until YOU choose to see things from all sides....

Black and White is a good cookie, just not always the best way to see life....

And certainly not what DBing is about...

She is trying to figure out who the hell she is, without you in the picture. So she IS gonna recreate that life without you, to see what the cause is...

That is what MLC is....

I'm so dang sick and tired of her "feelings" and the fact that they are more important than facts, what's best for her kids (yes, this is how I see it but it's also the way most people would see things), that as soon as they change everything changes with them. I'm sick of her "feelings" being hurt by this or that or that because she "feels" depressed/anxious she should be given slack because she is "sick" so it's not her fault. I have lived with a person ruled by her "feelings" for years and now I have no choice but to deal with her and try to keep as much as I can of what I worked for for the last 20 years.

And here is the rub...

YOUR hurt, YOUR feelings, YOUR possessions....

You are acting out of hurt, and fear. Which allows you to make emotional decisions....

What I'm doing is trying to NOT be a victim here at least where the D is concerned. If she gets to keep all she has already taken AND the house, along with the fact that she gets to have D14 going to school a mile away while I have to drive 30 miles, I will be a victim! My plan for my future involves whether or not I get to keep my house. If I do I'm going to fix it up and make it my own. We let it go for years because W wanted to move so badly so we figured why put the money or effort into it? Well, if it's now "mine" I will put that effort in. If I can only live there until D14 is out of HS, I'm not doing squat to it to improve it.

It's not working....you are playing the victim very well...

I will say this. I have come up with a plan over the last 2 days. If my W has to cash in her retirements and pay for all the antiques she says are "morally" hers, it's a wash at the value of the house as is. Not to mention she has our barn filled with her crap that she has collected over the years or that she brought with her when we got M. Stuff she hasn't looked at in years. She will need to store that stuff somewhere or get rid of it. As of now she just thinks that she can leave it there at least for the next 4 years. The only advantage she gets is that she thinks that I will take the offer because I won't need to rent a place like her. That and the fact that she screws with my life some more.

So you are doing this to intentionally "hurt" her ???

I guess what it boils down to is I don't want to be a victim. If I let her have her way like this I will be. I will have NOTHING to show for the last 20 years of work and sacrifice (except a good relationship with my Daughters). It just sticks in my crawl when she complains about how hard it is. I had to keep everything going while I was the only one working and making a lot less than she is now. Not only that I had just as many bills AND two kids in private school. She never understood how hard that was and now that she is on her own she is feeling the same stress I felt for 15 years, half of that time with her so "depressed" she didn't help out much at all in any way. I'm really losing any feelings of concern or empathy towards my W seeing what she is pushing in the D settlement. The fact that she really expects me to "roll over" and just do what she wants also bugs me. At this point I need to just hold my ground and do what I "feel" is best and whatever she "feels" be damned.

Damn all hell when YOUR expectations don't work out eh ???

Punish her at all costs ???

That is what I am talking about above....

Your way is superior, so pass judgment and punishment....

You are not the judge, jury, and executioner....

You are right, Mach, I have been feeling like a victim. I don't want that any longer and step one is to fight for what I think is right. Time to take away any power that W has over me at all. If she wants to live the way she is now forever, so be it. I, for one, plan on making a better life away from a depressive S who thinks throwing away the last 26 years is the key to a life of happiness and "joy". Thanks for hitting me upside the head. I needed it!

You may want to wait on that thanks...

Cause you missed the point of my last post to you....

[TSquared2]

4x8....

I remember a couple of those...

I really listened to them, thought about them, saw their validity and became unstuck ...

and they got me moving towards mental and emotional freedom...

I still had to do the work.

[Matt165]

Mach,
This is the third reply I have started but decided to not post what I wrote. Let's just say...thank you for your opinion but I most hardily disagree with almost everything you wrote. Far from "punishing" my W, all I'm planning on doing is getting what is "fair" in the D settlement. Since you have no way of knowing the details (like the fact that we cashed in all my retirement just weeks before her saying she wanted a D, that the value of the antiques she took along with the retirement accounts far exceeds 1/2 the value of the house, she left our joint accounts with a negative balance, etc.) I chose to think that you are just "misinformed" as to calling my plan "punishing" my W.

While you may not know this I worked long and hard on my M. far from expecting it to work "without any effort" on my part, again, something you have no way of knowing.

I tried to see things from her "side" but while I was doing that I was getting screwed. As for my feelings being hurt because I'm so superior to her.....I'm sorry if you think what she is doing is moral, or that just because she no longer values her children having a sense of security that is just as "valid" a point of view as mine. I disagree but hey, if you want to judge me, that's up to you.

I will no longer disrespect my W by seeing her choices as due to some crisis or her just trying at almost 50 years old to find her place in the world. She has made decision after decision that negatively effects me and her own children (of course that's only MY opinion), and gosh, it's only right that she has the time to roam free and find her joy and it's just so wrong of me to think that the crazy things she is doing are anything but her God given right to screw the person who had to take care of her for years while she was "sick". In fact asking her to not take everything of value we have worked so many years for is just down right mean of me and I should be homeless since trying to keep anything is just me wanting to punish her. By the way I have NEVER told my lawyer to "attack" her at any time. In fact he suggested I not let her refinance one of our cars in just her name and I allowed it because she couldn't afford both the car payment and rent on her new place.

Believe it or not I'm not "hurt" that the person my W is now doesn't want me around. Actually if I were to met her today I wouldn't give her the time of day. If anything I miss the person she was. If I attached emotional value to stuff, I wouldn't have let her take it in return for allowing me to have the house. As for acting out of fear...you are right there. I fear getting taken for everything that I have and being left homeless while my W gets to keep it all. So, you're right on there. I also fear what will happen to my teenage D when she's left alone every day after school until late at night.

The biggest mistake I made in all this is treating my W like someone who is pain and just trying to find her way. The more compassion I showed the more she got HER way.The more she got her way the more she wanted until there was no more left to take. Time for that to stop.

So, you think I show her that when my expectations fail, I judge her harshly. Umm...not sure how that would look since the only expectation I had was for her to be a wife and mother. When she wanted to try something new that put more responsibilities on me, I backed her.

I'm sorry if you see my wanting to protect myself and my kids from what my W is doing as being superior or being judgemental. Or doing so as "punishing" her. I disagree but, hey that's OK. You have every right to your opinion!

[Mach1]

Mach,
This is the third reply I have started but decided to not post what I wrote. Let's just say...thank you for your opinion but I most hardily disagree with almost everything you wrote. Far from "punishing" my W, all I'm planning on doing is getting what is "fair" in the D settlement. Since you have no way of knowing the details (like the fact that we cashed in all my retirement just weeks before her saying she wanted a D, that the value of the antiques she took along with the retirement accounts far exceeds 1/2 the value of the house, she left our joint accounts with a negative balance, etc.) I chose to think that you are just "misinformed" as to calling my plan "punishing" my W.

While you may not know this I worked long and hard on my M. far from expecting it to work "without any effort" on my part, again, something you have no way of knowing.

Matt, I don't need the "details" to see this.

I tried to see things from her "side" but while I was doing that I was getting screwed. As for my feelings being hurt because I'm so superior to her.....I'm sorry if you think what she is doing is moral, or that just because she no longer values her children having a sense of security that is just as "valid" a point of view as mine. I disagree but hey, if you want to judge me, that's up to you.

Oh, make no mistake here, I am not judging you at all.

I'm just pointing out how you are judgmental...

You can twist it around and hide behind it as much as you want. Maybe it allows you to feel better if you can politely tell me how wrong I am, and throw in a few snarky sarcastic comments.

Truth is, the condescending crap that you just threw at me, is THE SAME THING THAT YOUR WIFE HAS ACCUSED YOU OF....

Her words...."You treat me like a child"....

It's in your threads, I didn't make it up out of thin air...


How are you any different today, other than you refuse to see it in yourself ???

And I am here, as an outsider, telling you that I see the exact same thing in you, and as many posters have said to you.

Was this the way that you responded to her when SHE told you this ?

To argue your point, and confirm her belief ??

I will no longer disrespect my W by seeing her choices as due to some crisis or her just trying at almost 50 years old to find her place in the world. She has made decision after decision that negatively effects me and her own children (of course that's only MY opinion), and gosh, it's only right that she has the time to roam free and find her joy and it's just so wrong of me to think that the crazy things she is doing are anything but her God given right to screw the person who had to take care of her for years while she was "sick".

Tell me exactly, how what I bolded isn't judgmental ???

How many of you Women posters out there, would want a guy that "allowed" , and "let" you find yourself. And the throw it back into your face when you "chose" something other than what they expected ???

That sits back on his "moral" high horse, and passes judgment and morality on you, because you changed your mind about a decision that you made 25 years ago, and you feel differently now. ????

And don't assume that I am saying that Divorce is okay, because I do not believe in it AT ALL.

What I also do not believe in, is trying to control and manipulate another human being just because they don't think, feel, and act the way that I want them to.

Love is about supporting, and you SAY that you support her.

Is that as long as it benefits you ??

Do you love her enough to see her happy ? At any cost ??

As against Divorce as I was, and still am. It was more important to me, because of the Love that I had for my EX, to see her happy. And if her not being with me gave her happiness in life, then I would accept that.

Am I a victim ?

No, because I chose to show her love. I know that nothing that she did was to intentionally hurt me. I know that she did it for herself.

Yet I also CHOSE to rise above it, and CHOSE to let her decision benefit myself as well.




And I know I am comparing apples to oranges with that, because you threw the Children in there. If you were to take them out of that sentence, then really read what you said.

So, let me try this again...

She has made decision after decision that negatively effects me and her own children (of course that's only MY opinion), and gosh, it's only right that she has the time to roam free and find her joy and it's just so wrong of me to think that the crazy things she is doing are anything but her God given right to screw the person who had to take care of her for years while she was "sick".[/b]

Would YOU want a relationship with someone who thinks this way ???

In fact asking her to not take everything of value we have worked so many years for is just down right mean of me and I should be homeless since trying to keep anything is just me wanting to punish her. By the way I have NEVER told my lawyer to "attack" her at any time. In fact he suggested I not let her refinance one of our cars in just her name and I allowed it because she couldn't afford both the car payment and rent on her new place.

Once again, the victim....

Believe it or not I'm not "hurt" that the person my W is now doesn't want me around. Actually if I were to met her today I wouldn't give her the time of day. If anything I miss the person she was. If I attached emotional value to stuff, I wouldn't have let her take it in return for allowing me to have the house. As for acting out of fear...you are right there. I fear getting taken for everything that I have and being left homeless while my W gets to keep it all. So, you're right on there. I also fear what will happen to my teenage D when she's left alone every day after school until late at night.

So let me get this straight....

You LET her, take the "stuff" , in exchange for the house.

Then you bitch about her taking it(stuff), and you are gonna be homeless....


What ???

The biggest mistake I made in all this is treating my W like someone who is pain and just trying to find her way. The more compassion I showed the more she got HER way.The more she got her way the more she wanted until there was no more left to take. Time for that to stop.

Once again, that is what MLC is....

And IF you would have read here, and listened rather than defending yourself, you would have seen that MLC requires strong boundaries for OURSELVES.

You chose compassion because that is who you are, and what you believe.

And I commend you for trying that. We have all tried that angle...

Nothing wrong with that....right up until you deemed yourself smarter than anyone here, and chose to do things your way, instead of listening to some people who have walked this path ahead of you.

And forgive me , BUT (your favorite excuse for not doing better), the dis-respect that you show to anyone that tries to show you a different view, on a forum that I owe so much to (for saving my dumb ass), is quite offensive.

But hey, who am I to tell you anything....

So, you think I show her that when my expectations fail, I judge her harshly. Umm...not sure how that would look since the only expectation I had was for her to be a wife and mother. When she wanted to try something new that put more responsibilities on me, I backed her.

I don't have to "think" it Matt....it is all over your words

I'm sorry if you see my wanting to protect myself and my kids from what my W is doing as being superior or being judgemental. Or doing so as "punishing" her. I disagree but, hey that's OK. You have every right to your opinion!

Well, I thank you for allowing me to have my opinion.


Like I said above, it is all in your words. It isn't something that I have to "think", or be opinionated about too much.

You have spent so much time during this, trying to prove that you are right, more moral, and being the victim...

That you forgot to actually be anything different, and not just for your Marriage....for something way worse....yourself

Have you noticed that there aren't any Vets posting to you anymore ?

Ever wonder why ???


I have a pretty good idea....

[LoisB]

Yikes, step away folks...Pissing contest in progress. :-)

Matt, I love ya. You are an awesome guy and obviously love your wife and kids deeply.

I agree with Mach about the victim thing.

I've said before...every paragraph you write about your W's behavior could be summed up in one sentence.

W has hurt me by _________________.
I'm angry with W because _______________.

The play-by-play of every action, betrayal...doesn't really serve you well.

I know the boards can be a treacherous place sometimes. Every armchair therapist can jump in and give you the How To and 411 on your life. I get it. It can be overwhelming.

The key is to find YOUR TRUTH in all of this.

Personally, I think we all do things for good reason...including our spouses...I'm sure that if I were to watch a movie reel of Smokey's life, it would make perfect sense why he has done the things he has...

The same goes for YOU. Figure out why you are so stuck on being the victim. What about your childhood, personality, person makes you so susceptible to this? Why do you focus so intensely on her actions?

I mean, YES, she is doing and saying and behaving selfishly...I don't think anyone would dispute this...but, why are you so obsessively focused on it? You know she is in crisis or struggling or depressed or simply cra cra...what about her behavior do you think is going to change by your focus on it?

[LoisB]

And, one more thing...I've been guilty of the same thing...obsessively focused on Smokey's behavior...

When I think about it...I was terrified. Terrified of being alone. Terrified isn't a strong enough word. Every molecule in my body was full of fear.

I hear that when you post...I hear a lot of anger and a lot of fear.

You allow her to step all over you and, then, you post how pissed off you are...Stop that.

You have nothing to complain about when it comes to her taking whatever from the house. We all said, over and over, set some legal boundaries. YOU chose not too. Does that make you a bad person? NO! You are human and you are navigating a really bad situation. Forgive yourself. But, hold yourself accountable too.

I believe you are really scared and really angry. Deal with those two things...Quite looking at her and ask yourself, "Why am I so focused on this person who has hurt me so deeply?"

"Why am I still allowing her crazy behavior to influence my day-to-day living/peace-of-mind?"

Who are you without her? What does your life look like without W?

That's my two cents.

And, Mach, that was a low blow about the vets not posting thing. You aren't a mind reader/seer of ALL and don't know why someone posts here and not there.

[cat04]

So Matt,

I see nothing much has changed...

I know you think the details matter, but they really don't...

We all have lost stuff through this. I miss my old kitchen some days...so I am creating a new one in my new home.

Maybe the "things" and their so called value don't mean as much to me because I have been through hurricanes. I learned a long time before any of this that stuff is just stuff. The things that matter, you carry inside of you.

How you retell the story, is up to you.

What I have seen is that you want to believe that you were perfect and loving and often times had no choice in the way you behaved or did things.

Down to whether you fixed up the house or not...

As a homeowner, repairs and improvements are necessary and only increase the value of the home if you are planning on leaving it so that really was a piss poor excuse for not doing it.

You commented on Shining's thread (and others) about how you left your wife alone and now she is pulling further away from you.

Leaving someone alone and becoming detatched are not the same things.

You are NOT detatched. It oozes out of every word you post.

And you still are condescending, even when you are trying to be empathatic towards people.

And to answer Lois, Mach didn't provide any "low blow".

I stopped posting to Matt because I got tired of having the same conversation over and over again just using different words.

I know that I am not the only poster who feels that way.

People want to help, that is why they continue to come back here, to the place that saved them.

The definition of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

So, often times, we get to the point where we do what DB teaches us and when we see that something is not working, we try something different, and that occasionally includes detatchment and going dark.