Wife dropped the bomb; doing in house separation

[HopeTex]

Had a really good weekend. Travelled to a conference with a big group I am a member of, a bunch of smart and fun people. Lots of fun activities and parties. W is on her trip with the kids to Denver.

I did a good job of focusing on enjoying the weekend, being present and having fun, and not obsessing on the M.

It was a good GAL experience. Really reminded me that there is a big big world out there, full of fun people and experiences. I still don't want a D, but the trip was a good reminder to me that there is plenty of life out there to be lived even if D happens. I know when I get into depressed mode thinking about D, I think in terms of scarcity and negativity: "If D happens I will always be miserable and alone. D will be proof I am not capable of a good R. No one else will ever want me. I won't be able to handle the pain of D. Etc etc.". Weekends like this remind me that life is abundant, there is a world of life and fun out there you just have to open up to it and know you are worthy and capable of dealing with and thriving in life whatever obstacles get thrown your way.

A couple of very attractive and intelligent women displayed very strong signs of attraction to me. I know those are dangerous temptations and now is not the time for anything like that. But I just took it as a nice reminder that life and love is ahead of me whatever happens in my M.

[Shakspr]

Heck, yeah, HopeTex.

Came over to say, hello, thanks for posting in my thread and got drawn into your saga.

One thing stands out. Your sig: "You move out, or I will file for D" 8/14/14. Manipulation and divorce attack 101. Go back to DR and look over some of the items on protecting yourself. A common theme around here (that you seem to have heard Loud and Clear) is Don't Leave Your Home. It's there for good reason.

RockJC has taken a hard line and I don't necessarily disagree with him. If you can discuss an uncontested divorce w/ your W it might be best for you AND your children. Lawyers don't deserve any of our money (or as little as possible.) So maybe show cooperation with the mechanics of the D while GAL'g like crazy? That's my current plan, since my W filed on Friday. Then, maybe, if a year down the road she still looks at me with a bit o' love I can try to rekindle.

I'll do a little mind-reading for you. Your W doesn't want to file for any number of reasons, but one thing is certain. If she does, she will be the petitioner, and the kids will know someday. If you leave before she petitions, she can tell the kids anything she wants to about "why" - even if it is 10 years from now.

I AM NOT A LAWYER ALERT. While Texas doesn't really care much about who is in the right, they do get serious about spousal support. So look into it for your sitch. (I have been married over ten years. The amount my spouse is entitled to is more than Child Support for 2 kids. For 5 years. ASTOUNDING! But she doesn't want it, hence, uncontested.)

[HopeTex]

Thanks Shakspr.I am starting to accept that this will probably go to formal Sep or D first, and that any type of reconciliation is probably way down the road if ever.

I am open to a formal Sep, but not a wihy-washy undefined one like she seems to be hoping for: I move out and find and apt and keep paying for everything and we just see what happens down the road. If she wants a Sep it will have to be a formal one with a written agreement that defines finances and custody. I predict that if I insist on that, she will see that she is not going to get everything she is wanting and will just opt for D instead. We'll see.

[Nitty]

I am open to a formal Sep, but not a wihy-washy undefined one like she seems to be hoping for

I wish I had pushed for this in the beginning.

The informal S we wrote up and agreed to has allowed some minor financial issues to turn into big, honking arguments because he interprets it to mean he gets to make all final decisions about $.

And our agreement about not spending marital assets on other women turned into him having the option to date. Our agreement that OW would never, ever again set foot on any property with my name on the deed... he broke that one, too.

A formal S, especially with kids, seems like it would be critical in this situation.

[HopeTex]

Picking up W and kids today from the airport as they return from trip to Denver. Interested to see what W has in store next in terms of conversations about Sep, or D.

[Shakspr]

Good luck, Hopetex. Decide what a positive interaction will look like, and visualize it. DB Coach Laurie told me a funny thing...a conversation that starts well, even if it gets ugly in the middle, tends to end well. The inverse is also true.

[HopeTex]

Well, a little drama tonite.

Picked the W and kids up at the airport, they had a good trip to Denver. W was generally pleasant and friendly. We all went to lunch then went home, W and one D7 watched a movie upstairs while I hung out with other D7 and S5 downstairs. Then we cooked and ate dinner, and the kids had their baths. All pretty standard.

Then it was time for bed. As I have mentioned before, my wife and I have been trading weeks in the master bedroom. When my W is out of the master she bunks with my soon in his huge 3-bed bunk set. When I am out of the master I take over the girls room and the girls bunk with their brother. I like to read and watch movies, etc at night so I want a full room to myself. Plus I think the sharing beds and rooms with kids is not real healthy, and that has been an issue in our marriage IMO. Ie, wife always letting kids sleep in our bed with us.

This has been a topic of conversation in my sitch where I have been tired of having to be outside my bedroom, and waffling over whether to put an end to that.

During our last conversation when W asked me again to move out, one reason she cited was that the girls did not like sleeping in their brothers room with him.

This is W's week in the master, now that she is home from Denver. As bedtime approaches, W comes up to me and whispers "You need to talk to them about sleeping arrangements." I said "What do you mean?" She said "If you want to sleep in here you need to tell the girls they are sleeping with in their brother's room."

So I announced "All right girls, I am sleeping in yr room tonight, you will be in with your brother." Instantly the girls start complaining and crying about how they hate sleeping in their etc. they had never had this strong emotional reaction before. I really can't know for sure, but my instant thought was that W had somehow orchestrated or prompted the performance. They are whining and crying and W just walks out of the room, leaving me to deal with it. I tried a couple "all right guys, please stop complaining, this is just the way it is, sorry" but that didn't work.

As it went on, I started feeling a little angry, but I think mostly just plain fed up. With everything. With W. I just didn't care anymore what the W would do. I said in a calm but firm voice "All right guys, change of plans, Daddy is sleeping in his bed, you girls can sleep in your room." Out of the corner of my eye I could see W's reaction, it looked like she was surprised and PO'd. Same look as the two times I told her No, I am Not Moving Out. She kept her distance as we got the kids down. I went directly to the bedroom, she headed downstairs and got on the phone, I would presume to call whatever girlfriend she confides in these days.

I walked downstairs to get some water and she was sitting texting with the same look. I said "Sorry, didn't mean to spring that on you, it just came up. But it is something I have been thinking about for a while, and I am going to sleep In the bedroom from now on. She can sleep where you want."

Her: (Eyeroll) Thanks! (Sarcastically)

Part of me is telling myself What are you doing?! Don't rock the boat and make her mad, you will drive her away, and make her file for D!"

But the other part of me, that is growing stronger every day, is telling myself: Good for you. Sleep where you want to sleep. This is your house. You are a man who works hard and provides for his family. Sleep in the bed for crissakes. You aren't driving her away, she is already away on her own. So what if this helps her decide to move out and file for D? More and more it looks like that is an inevitability. Probably need to detach and get the M farther down the D road if there is going to be any chance of change and progress. Right now we are just stuck high center in a pretty miserable sitch that isn't going anywhere. I need to show her I am ready to get on with life with or without her. And I need to really believe and walk that out too. If a stupid dispute over sleeping arrangements is what it takes then so be it. I am tired of cowering in fear over the thought of D and losing her.

[Ss06]

What a tough sitch, HT. It sounds like you called her bluff with the "You move out, or I will file for D". That takes courage. Recognize that.

I don't think it's good to displace the kids anyway during times like these. Divorce is enough of a family adjustment, throwing in that the kids have to sleep in strange places to accommodate their parents and THAT sounds unhealthy to me. Consistency and predictability is so important during this time with the kids.

So I admire your tenacity with sleeping in your own bed. It might have been better if you'd had a convo with W first before announcing that the girls could sleep in their own room but meh, it happened how it happened.

Here are perhaps some other thoughts:

1. Is there an option of getting an air mattress and pulling that out each night maybe in the family room or on the floor of one of the kids rooms?

2. Can you watch TV on a laptop with earphones and sleep in your son's room?

just ideas because if she comes at you super angry then you have things to fall back on to make you seem flexible without being a push over. I don't know. Up to you.

I can tell you're tired of cowering. I don't blame you.

Hang in there, man.

[25yearsmlc]

Wow, that was not very fun at all.

I will try to give a good play by play of the conversation. We sat on the sofa in the living room after the kids went down. W was pleasant all evening, making small talk, etc. so I was feeling pretty positive.

She started by asking how I thought things were going, how I felt about the current arrangement (in-house separation, trading weeks in the master bedroom). I said I was doing pretty well, that it wasn't a dream come true but that I was good with it for now, that I have been making some good progress in personal development and feeling happier. And that I am still committed to the M.


Much to say in too little time. (More later. But a quick comment here and there, okay? NOT to say this did not sukk, b/c it did. But I cannot talk to HER so, we can only help you.

In THIS^^ scenario try hard to think of a car negotiation or a job interview. LET HER come up with the specifics FIRST, as in HER suggestions or HER thoughts about money. Do NOT put a number or opinion out first, let HER take that risk if she is so sure. IT's a tactic but in THESE types of discussions, (as opposed to honest attempts at restoring a marriage) tactics are useful.


She said "this is not working out for me at all, I am very uncomfortable with the situation, it is not good for me or the kids. When you were out of town last week for several days it felt so much better, getting to sleep in the bed and the kids all getting to sleep in their beds, D7 especially slept so much better. I can't do this anymore. Right now I cannot live under the same roof as you. I will suggest again that you move out and live somewhere nearby, that I stay her in the house, and we do a Real S."

I was obviously disappointed, but I stayed calm. "I am story to hear that. I am still committed to the M and I want it to work. But I have already decided that I am not moving out. If you need to then I will be sorry but I will respect that decision."

Good enough.^^^ Considering, actually darn good of you.


W:"But I don't understand why you draw that line in the sand, it seems like you are just being stubborn and trying to prove some point. Like maybe you really want a D but don't want to be the one to file so you are pushing me to the brink where I have to file for D? Don't you understand that your moving out and letting me and the kids stay here is what is best for the kids? Their world revolves around being with me and being in this house. Whatever happens with the M, I will still be the one picking them up from school and spending the afternoon with them, so my having to move out of this house will rock their world more than anything."

QUESTION, IS ANY OF THIS ^^^ TRUE? If so, don't deny. Concede that and THEN add in your other views...otherwise you will seem more in denial or out of touch or stubborn...


Me: "Having their father move out will also rock their world."

W: "oh I know that. Please know that whatever happens I think you are a great father and I value and will def protect you relationship with them, that is so moorland to me. Sorry if it seems like I am not valuing that. But can you please explain why it is in the kids best interest for you to stay here and for me to move out?"

Me: "it is just a decision I have made. I am committed to the M. I have no interest in moving out of my house, where my family lives. If you need to move out you can do that."

Saying "it's just a decision" is like saying "just because"....fwiw

The part about not wanting a divorce AND not wanting to leave the family home makes sense. ITs your family.



W: we are in this together. We are both in this R, and we both made it what it is and got us to this point. So you can't just push everything onto me.


^^^^"THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I CANNOT MOVE OUT"...(unless she wants to alternate, b/c otherwise only YOU are paying the price for what you BOTH created...)


Me: I totally agree, we both contributed to the difficult place this R is in right now. But I am still committed to the M. If you are in a different place and want to make a different decision that is up to you.

W: "But i am telling you that it is my decision that I can't live under the same roof as you right now, and that the only way we can move forward is with a S, and it is in the best interests of the kids for you to move out. Basically you are not willing to discuss a S, so you are just forcing me to have to file for D. Do you want to have some big nasty D fight over the house, that will cost a bunch of money in legal fees?"

R: I have no interest in D. And if you choose to file for D I have no interest in a nasty fight.

Did you say you are in Texas so there's no point in a legal sep? What about an informal sep? Sorry if I forgot why you can't, but to me it's LESS than a divorce and clearly lving under the same roof is hard for HER so....what is the immediate goal here? ( know the ultimate goal is restoring the m, but for now, what is the immediate solution to all the tension? Why can't you two alternate in and out of the house and let the kids remain?

Just an idea. Shows some flexibility AND commitment to the M.

W: will you please at least consider again in the next few days whether it would be better for you to move out?

R: I am sure I will consider it some more, but I can assure you that I will not change my mind.


NO need to project zero movement. Express your willingness TO CONSIDER her request and then do so. Don't predict you will never change your mind b/c that sounds a LOT like you "will never change", period....

I think this is important.


W: but you aren't explaining why.

Me: I am sorry, I don't think I am going to be able to give you an explanation that will satisfy you.

W: do you understand that you are leaving me no choice but to file for D?

R: I am just making my decisions, you have to make yours.

W: Ok then. [She starts playing with her phone; I get up and say "ok" and head up to my room. A few minutes later she texts me that she is heading next door to hang out with her best friend for a while.]

She sounds resolute and even more convinced you are just being stubborn. You did not do a lot to counter that although thank God you remained calm. But Any time you can undermine that stubborn (to HER it will =controlling) attribute, you ought to try,

not to be a doormat but to look as if you really are CONSIDERING her requests. Remember your earliest posts in which you conceded a lot of these problems are not 50/50 but more like 95/5 with you having the bulk of the work to do.
Today, I'm sure you see it more realistically but it still remains that you DO have some issues she will have to see in a new way

that means you changing and somehow revealing the changes MORE. I don't think scuba and stubborn will be a good enough mix. Scuba and "new behaviors" will...

make sense?

[HopeTex]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas Sso6, appreciate it.

She came into the master bedroom and got her pillows. Said "Good night" and headed to S's room.