Wife wants marriage with OM, is there any hope?

[claire7]

Oh, ok. Good luck to you.

[25yearsmlc]

MrBond -

The things I've done were done years ago. A lot has changed since then. The things I've done had everything to do with the addictive lifestyle I led, and nothing to do with my wife or my love for her. I've come to terms with that back in 2011.

It is absolutely sweeping it under the rug, and there is nothing wrong with that. Why would I continually bring myself back to a time when I was selfish and destructive? I want to leave that life behind. I want to be able to forgive myself for what I did. That can never happen if I keep beating myself down over and over again. That can never happen if I can never let go of the guilt. T

but that ^^^^^ is exactly what you are doing to your wife.

You confuse self respect with your wounded ego. You justify punitive vindictive shaming behavior. And expect her to want to be with you?

Expecting that is the definition of insanity b/c you know shaming did not help you, but you think it will change her in a way that helps the situation??

Any 12 step program will tell you things like "Shame is NOT your friend" and when you shame a spouse, which is NEVER your role, you push them farther and farther away.

You have lost sight of your goal b/c you are putting your anger and need to be right, over any desire to be happy.

No spouse has ever returned and stayed, b/c of shame.

Your approach is fundamentally flawed and you have a huge double standard.
The sooner you see that, the better your chance for an actual reconciliation that might last.

You resist seeing this^^, at your peril.

[mindsin]

but that ^^^^^ is exactly what you are doing to your wife.

You confuse self respect with your wounded ego. You justify punitive vindictive shaming behavior. And expect her to want to be with you?

Expecting that is the definition of insanity b/c you know shaming did not help you, but you think it will change her in a way that helps the situation??

Any 12 step program will tell you things like "Shame is NOT your friend" and when you shame a spouse, which is NEVER your role, you push them farther and farther away.

You have lost sight of your goal b/c you are putting your anger and need to be right, over any desire to be happy.

No spouse has ever returned and stayed, b/c of shame.

Your approach is fundamentally flawed and you have a huge double standard.
The sooner you see that, the better your chance for an actual reconciliation that might last.

You resist seeing this^^, at your peril.

Shaming behavior? I'm obviously not seeing it. Can you point out specifics based on my past posts?

I know that shaming did not help me? Please explain this.

I don't think I've lost sight of my goal. My goal is to get my wife back and keep my family intact. I am indeed angry, and you are spot-on about my personality -- I do have an innate desire to be right. I recognize this and in this particular situation, I honestly don't know what's right.

[MrBond]

"MrBond -

What exactly do I need to understand about my W that I already don't? I already understand how much I've hurt her over the years -- not just with the infidelity, but with the other faults I've listed."

The fact that your W wants to leave you and yet you're oblivious to why (although it is VERY obvious to us) is what you need to understand. You have a great do as I say and not as I do attitude.

"She is using those things as justification for this A. Even without the OM, she would find it very difficult to reconcile with me. With the OM, it's almost impossible."

For someone who claims to "understand" alot about A's, you certainly don't show it. It's all from your POV and what is acceptable to you. Since your W doesn't follow your "moral" code, you condemn her even though what you did was 100x's worse.

I notice that you didn't respond when I said that you're getting all bent out of shape about her ONE affair. How do you think she felt about your MANY AFFAIRS? Pretty selfish of you.

"What else am I missing?"

claire summed it up pretty well and you just shot her down and shut her up. That shows exactly how you treat your W. If you disagree, you argue your point, think you're right and not listen.

"I absolutely condemn my wife's A harder.

- I never threatened to break apart my family.
- I never said "I love you" to another woman.
- I never called another woman my "soulmate".
- I never brought my CHILDREN to meet any of my "lovers" behind my wife's back.
- I never said to her, "Hey, honey, I'm coming home from work, then I'm going to spend the night with an escort. Make sure you drop the kids off at school in the morning".

I don't need to be a moral authority to know what's morally wrong about what is CURRENTLY going on."

This part of your post is particularly laughable. What do you think you did to YOUR W's self esteem? All you do is talk about yours, and how damaged you were, etc. But I can tell you that she suffered worse. You just don't see it.

I will tell you this. If you continue to not listen (and 25yearsmlc has a great post to you), you will fail yourself and more importantly your W. You don't seem to get that. You don't seem to understand why your W just doesn't "get over it". Well you don't seem to be "getting over" her A, and you did it many times over to her.

In fact, from your reaction here, I totally understand and maybe even encourage your W to seek a new relationship because you don't seem to be able to have any empathy towards her. It's all about you.

You say that you haven't been "controlling" her which is also laughable because that's all you've been doing.

[25yearsmlc]

This morning, I made another mistake. I sent her an e-mail regarding my feelings about overhearing her conversation with the OM. I indicated that hearing her conversation with the OM made me truly sympathize with how she must have felt when she saw my e-mail and read the words I said to the independent escort I was seeing. In that e-mail, I was calling the escort girl sweet names and telling her how beautiful she was, and how we had a wonderful time together, etc. That must have ripped her heart.

Then I went on the offensive.

Naturally.... b/c you MAY have been getting somewhere owning your own stuff you might have seemed sincere and humbled.....but NOPE.

You HAD to keep score and keep her self esteem down so of course you had to go on the offensive.

IMO that was wrong of you big time. I cannot stress the enormity of that error enough. You have to STOP being on the offensive b/c it is most of your R with her.

I asked her if she's really prepared to walk away from this marriage and put our children's happiness and well being into jeopardy. I called her out about not giving a crap about the OM's wife and kids, then I went on about how if our children had a voice, I'm pretty sure they'd want to live with mom and dad as a family.

She replied back saying that she too lived with similar mental torture during those years I cheated. She cited examples, like me going out with an escort while she was at home pregnant 8 months with our 2nd child. Then she continued citing examples of my disrespect and lack of appreciation for her efforts in this marriage.

All her points are valid.

Finally, she asked if this was happening to my own daughter, what would I tell her.

I spoke from that perspective and replied with a very long e-mail basically trying to make my case about how she needs to really reconsider her decision to continue the A, and pursue a D.

You did NOT speak from your d's perspective b/c then you'd have to admit you'd have advised your d to leave her h when he cheated on her, especially while pregnant. (To many women, being cheated on while pregnant is the height of insult. We are literally carrying our h's child at the risk of our own lives, to endure a painful labor, give birth, never be quite the same, to have health problems later in life if the pregnancy or delivery were unusually difficult, and all this, to be cheated on by the father of that child???

Then I sincerely apologized for hurting her so many times and how I wish I could turn back the clock and make everything right again. I then pleaded my case about how I can be a great husband for her and how much I still deeply love her. I was asking her for one last try.

She didn't respond to that e-mail. But later on, she called me and asked if I wanted to have lunch with her. We met up for lunch and talked about everything except the situation. We made small talk, and talked about our kids, our jobs, etc. It was a very short lunch because she had to leave and pick up our son.

Why did she make the effort to drive out of her way (completely in the opposite direction) to meet me for a quick 20 minute lunch, and not say a word about the e-mail exchange from the morning? It didn't make much sense to me.


Makes total sense to me. She wanted to see if you two could share some time, ANY amount of time, without you throwing it in her face. Guess that was too much for you.

Was she simply trying to see if I went over the deep end?

the fact that you'd ask that^^ question is what disturbs me...it's an odd one. ARE you going off the deep end? Why would she believe that? What are you not telling us?




She is afraid that I or the OMW will go to her company and expose this A.

did you get that^^^ out of her wanting to spend a few peaceful minutes with you??? Man, you sure spin things negatively fast....that is some wacky stinking thinking on your part...


She's made that clear several times. Maybe she came to see me to make me hang on to a little bit of hope at reconciliation and to keep me cooperating so she can continue the A and plan her future with the OM.


OMG stop it! ("Maybe she was secretly bugging my car so she could later tie a bomb to it and blow me up....")

What is the matter with you? YOU asked for a chance to reconcile and when she spends time with you if it does not go exactly as YOU want it to go, it MUST be due to an evil plot of hers....wow, buddy you need a good IC and let them read what you write here...

Maybe she was touched by my e-mail just enough to perhaps make her second guess her choices. Like I may have mentioned before, she is the type of person who has the ability to detach herself emotionally from any situation and make decisions based on reason and facts. I really have no idea what her motive was.

Then stop worrying/obsessing about it - and ENJOY time you are given with her, and do not wreck it.

[claire7]

Mindsin,

I'm a sucker for cheeseless tunnels, apparently. Because here I am, again, posting to you. And you have been going around in circles with some majorly helpful vets.

So, I have a question for you: Why are you here? What do you hope to get out of your participation in this forum? What questions do you have for the vets here, and/or what would you like feedback on?

These are not snarky questions. They are actual, serious questions.

(I asked this question of another highly defensive man recently... he never answered and has since disappeared for the moment).

If you put down your defenses, and read the posts from Mr. Bond and 25yrs, you might find peace within yourself, and quite possibly save your M.

[mindsin]

25yearsmlc - I agree with just about everything you said. I appreciate it, and you're waking me up to the errors I've made in my thoughts and actions. I'm being serious.

With that said...

I will comment on the points where I disagree or where I feel clarification is needed.

the fact that you'd ask that^^ question is what disturbs me...it's an odd one. ARE you going off the deep end? Why would she believe that? What are you not telling us?

Because she indicated to me that she wants to make sure I don't do anything to hurt her, the OM, their careers. She has said that she still cares for me as a person she has known for almost two decades and as the father of her children.

did you get that^^^ out of her wanting to spend a few peaceful minutes with you??? Man, you sure spin things negatively fast....that is some wacky stinking thinking on your part...

No. She has said this flat out to me. Even threatened retaliation if I dare pull such a stunt.

[mindsin]

Mindsin,

I'm a sucker for cheeseless tunnels, apparently. Because here I am, again, posting to you. And you have been going around in circles with some majorly helpful vets.

So, I have a question for you: Why are you here? What do you hope to get out of your participation in this forum? What questions do you have for the vets here, and/or what would you like feedback on?

These are not snarky questions. They are actual, serious questions.

(I asked this question of another highly defensive man recently... he never answered and has since disappeared for the moment).

If you put down your defenses, and read the posts from Mr. Bond and 25yrs, you might find peace within yourself, and quite possibly save your M.

I am here because I am desperate to save my marriage and I don't know which direction to turn. I've been getting all kinds of advice from friends, from the Internet, from my DB coach. My situation is such a complicated mess that I fear each move I make. I started reading the DR book and I'm looking to supplement the book and the DB coaching with good feedback from you folks.

I'm sorry if I come off as defensive, but that's sort of in my nature. I'll try to be more conscious of it going forward. I really do appreciate everyone's responses, whether or not I agree with them.

[25yearsmlc]

Your situation is not that complicated. Nor is it that unusual.

You need to take in some information and NOT react so fast to it. You misunderstood my question about how you interpreted your wife spending a bit of time with you and then you spun that into something negative.

When I called you on it then you brought up a red herring and said "she told me flat out".

She told you what flat out, that spending time with you was a ruse so she could trick you?

THAT Is what I suggested YOU were getting from her choice to spend time with you, NOT from her previous comments.

I'm referring ONLY to the fact that her spending time with you was something YOU got negative about b/c she did not bring up the BIG FAT underlying issues.

Not everyone wants to talk all the time about THE problems. Sometimes they want to know that they can just BE around you and not feel dragged into an interrogation room.

Now do you get my question?

[MrBond]

"I started reading the DR book and I'm looking to supplement the book and the DB coaching with good feedback from you folks."

I don't think so. The basic tenant of DB is changing yourself first. It doesn't seem like you're willing to do that. The one glaring thing it seems like you need to change is your attitude of sweeping things under the rug because you don't want to deal with it. Your W is the one hurting. Not you.

"I'm sorry if I come off as defensive, but that's sort of in my nature."

This is also something that's very obvious. And it's how you treat your W. Do you think that really makes her attracted to you?

"I'll try to be more conscious of it going forward. I really do appreciate everyone's responses, whether or not I agree with them."

That's another issue. You don't seem to want to have an open enough mind to try and understand what others are telling you. It seems like once you hear something you don't like or don't want to confront because it makes you uncomfortable (due to fear), you get angry. That's your defense mechanism to protect yourself.

But let's face it. Your W is the one hurting. Not you. So why do you only care about yourself? You really don't see that this is the same as when you were having your A's do you? You only want to do what you want to do irregardless of how it hurts others.

Man up and take responsibility for what you did. This also includes understanding why your W is looking for another man who treats her better than you do.