I'm left wanting

[GoatGal]

foreveryoung,

I don't have a problem with some porn every now and then, but even with young men it's been proven to skew their perceptions OVER TIME with heavy or escalating use.

If you think about it, those same "bonding chemicals" that are released when ML with another person, are also released in response to porn. And because of the endless parade of images, novelty, and variety, after awhile, the "same old" doesn't work anymore.

People find themselves surfing for more and more hardcore images, and ultimately find themselves becoming aroused by things they would have previously described as distasteful.

There are a lot of studies out there that have shown this, and The Coolidge Effect, among other things.

Again, if it's not a problem and doesn't interrupt normal intimacy with your SO, no harm done.

But bklver describes a much different situation.
He is leaving their marital bed to go watch porn.

This is a destructive and hurtful pattern.

BTW: I belong to another online group similar to this one for partners of porn addiction. The stories that are like mine run rampant. There is a lot of devastation there and these guys get over-involved before they realize it.


If you just Google "porn addiction" you'll see what I mean.

If you had told me 20 years ago this would ever be a problem for anyone, I would have laughed. I recall hearing that pornography had destroyed so-and-so's marriage, and I still didn't buy it.

I thought it was a case of a woman who had some hangups who couldn't handle her man looking at a little porn.

I never had a problem with my H looking at it from time to time, either alone or together.

But along the way, something really changed. He changed in response to it.

It's no different than a gambling addiction. There is no "substance" involved in a gambling addiction, yet, the addict's brain chemistry changes to support the addiction.

Porn is exactly the same, except worse.
Because it's available 24/7 on every device at the touch of a finger. And it ruins one of the most important bonding interactions that can take place between two people.

Some of these guys can't go 24 hours without viewing it. They get the shakes, the whole thing. They struggle EVERY DAY.

And some young guys who have grown up on porn have ED and they're only in their 20's. They can no longer respond normally to a woman under normal conditions.
A naked, willing, attractive female is no longer even close to being "enough".

Seriously, I'm not making this stuff up!

Now, you and I sound like people who can watch it and not have a problem. But there are lots of men and women who are struggling with full-blown addictions.

It devastates relationships and families, and often leads to acting out porn fantasies in the real world, spending money on escorts... and the worst of all, it has created a crop of functional pedophiles who would have never gotten aroused by young children but for the fact that they were fed images of progressively younger and younger people engaged in sexual acts.


OK. I'll get off my soapbox now.

--GGG

PS: GRAPHIC ALERT!
Unfortunately, my husband was/maybe is interested in something sexual from me, however, I've had enough of being degraded and treated like a sex toy. That's what it became about. ML was now about him "using" me with no emotion, like the Babes in Pornland. It took me awhile to catch on, but when i did, I realized why I was feeling so dirty afterwards.
He was engaging with my body. I was not needed in the interaction.
I heard it described as "being used as a masturbation tool". Which sums it up perfectly.
That is a terrible feeling when that's the only way it ever happens.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks, GG. I honestly hadn't a clue that porn addiction could be so gripping and devastating. I guess it goes back to that saying... all things in moderation.

You obviously are very well educated on this topic. Like any other addiction, I suppose the addict must acknowledge the addiction and want to break it as a first step. How common is it for porn addicts to do this? How long does it take to recover? Can there be full recovery? Probably depends on the specific case, I'd imagine.

Some of my favorite materials are things my W and I shared, because I can fantasize about her and our intimate times together. I do miss that intimacy, and right now this is as close as I can get. I also certainly want to be careful to not become an addict!

[ssmguy]

...and the worst of all, it has created a crop of functional pedophiles who would have never gotten aroused by young children but for the fact that they were fed images of progressively younger and younger people engaged in sexual acts.

I'm no expert, but that sounds really doubtful. Perhaps it's happened in an isolated case. But totally aside from making new things interesting, I thought the theme here was that porn itself was so addicting that it PREVENTED acting out in REAL LIFE. The effect you are proposing here is that by watching porn, a man would be MORE INTERESTED in acting out with his wife, not less.

By analogy, it seems a similar argument would be that by seeing images of gay sex, I would become more interested in that too, for exactly the same reason one might become a pedophile. I can assure you that would be a real stretch at least in my personal case.

I have also read studies showing that a careful analysis will show that porn has reduced anti-social acting out in real life, not encouraged it. You can't have it both ways -- either porn takes away from real sex, or it increases it. Perhaps you mean it reduces appropriate real sex, while increasing inappropriate real sex, but while at the same time absorbing someone in a lot of virtual sex. That's starting to sound too complicated and specific. But I'll certainly buy that porn is a problem for many people. Of course, that's just the way it looks from someone who really doesn't understand how one could get addicted to porn in the first place.

I'm reminded of a caustic comment attributed to Naomi Wolf about the power of Internet porn -- by comparison "real naked women are just bad porn".

[Cadet]

I am going to sit on the fence with this post as I can see both sides to this discussion.

FTR - MWD does side on what Foreveryoung has written, although like I said GoatGal you do make valid points.

I dont think there is any hard and fast rules and maybe the best thing is to just DO WHAT WORKS.

[GoatGal]

SSMguy:
"I thought the theme here was that porn itself was so addicting that it PREVENTED acting out in REAL LIFE."
It takes several forms. For some it does prevent any type of real life encounters.
For others, it starts to lose its effect, then the next level is the desire to act out scenarios in real life with real people. Sometimes that person is the spouse, just as often it's a stranger (met online these days) for anonymous sexual encounters.
The behavior becomes more and more laden with risk, and even that doesn't slow some addicts down.
Then they are sex addicts--but it has nothing to do with sex, it's just like a drug.
And it definitely has nothing to do with intimacy.
No matter how many encounters they have, it never "works" in that it doesn't fix what's wrong.

"The effect you are proposing here is that by watching porn, a man would be MORE INTERESTED in acting out with his wife, not less."
For some who don't have a problem, this could well be the case.
But for the porn addict, the porn itself is the preferred medium.
It doesn't have needs or want of its own.
Their encounters with spouses are detached, mechanical recreations of what they've been watching. It doesn't matter WHO they're with. It's just a body.
And often, they need to --um-- "finish" in the way that they do with porn. Porn-induced ED is a huge problem.

"By analogy, it seems a similar argument would be that by seeing images of gay sex, I would become more interested in that too, for exactly the same reason one might become a pedophile."
The fact is, this escalates.
Unlike in the days of Playboy, there is an endless parade of more exciting images, they pop up, come on... and as "vanilla" loses its flavor (which it will), there is more and more kink.

This includes tranny porn, gay porn, underage porn, violent/debasing acts, and yes, even child porn.
These men will TELL you that they are not gay, that they are not pedophiles, and technically, they're not. They're just now turned on by things that would have disgusted them. It's just brain chemistry.
And many of them go out into the real world and try and fulfill those fantasies too--with men, young girls...


"I can assure you that would be a real stretch at least in my personal case."
Thank goodness! I think it would for many, but there are plenty who have gone that route.
Perhaps not very young children, but consider all the "Teenage Cheerleader" type porn with girls who look VERY young, are shaved, etc.
It's not a stretch.
And the fact is, many of those girls really are underaged and trafficked in from other countries. It's a terrible industry.

"I have also read studies showing that a careful analysis will show that porn has reduced anti-social acting out in real life, not encouraged it."
I'm sure this is true in some ways, especially in countries where the sexual mores are so strict that men have virtually no outlets. But it comes at a price if they become desensitized to "real women" or start to view them in a derogatory way.

" You can't have it both ways -- either porn takes away from real sex, or it increases it."
It IS both ways.
Something to spice up a ho-hum love life adds some excitement. But a dependence on it can lead to a preference for it, inability to perform and lack of interest in even pursuing the real thing.

Let's face it: Real Women are work. They have flaws. They have opinions.
For guys, especially those with low self esteem and problems with intimacy, porn is just so much easier.

"Perhaps you mean it reduces appropriate real sex, while increasing inappropriate real sex, but while at the same time absorbing someone in a lot of virtual sex."
YOU GOT IT!

"That's starting to sound too complicated and specific."
It is. But it's correct.

"But I'll certainly buy that porn is a problem for many people. Of course, that's just the way it looks from someone who really doesn't understand how one could get addicted to porn in the first place."
Me either.
But let me tell you, an evening chat on my porn addict spouse support board is a real horror show.
You would not believe the true stories, what (mostly husbands) have engaged in... it's shocking.


And it's very, very real.

This is something I really only learned about over the last year because of my H.

I assure you, it is a serious and epidemic problem all over the world.
The Internet has created a whole generation of guys who think girls want them to--well, let's just say that most women would prefer not to.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just trying to relay information to whoever pops up on here.

---GGG

[ssmguy]

It seems to me that if one can become addicted to porn, then one could even more easily become addicted to one's spouse. The spouse is much more real than the porn and can interact with you! I guess I'm having trouble seeing how porn can have such an enduring appeal.

Reading all this, I'll have to admit to a selfish fantasy, though I wouldn't do it in real life of course. The fantasy is making love to all the sex-starved women whose husbands have abandoned them for porn. I've yet to hear of a porn video with that plot!

[ssmguy]

As for the "Teenage Cheerleaders" you mention, I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. If they are trafficked or underaged, you must be talking about some kind of illegal distribution or offshore websites. The major adult video production companies in the US are run like legit businesses and it's my understanding that they want documented evidence of your age because the last thing they want is a multi-million dollar lawsuit and arrests for distribution of child porn. Also, I don't think they're interested in trafficked women as they have more than enough women knocking down their doors to be in porn.

[booklvr]

Forever,

We used to do porn together, then for some reason, it became his own thing. Something he hides from me. Which I don't understand. I mean, how does a man go from getting 'porn-jobs' to wanting to just be by himself? Things got to the point where I was the only one initiating, and coming up with 'ideas' for things to do. It made me feel like he was only doing things with me because he was obligated. When I stopped initiating, I told him I will be there for him ANY time he wants, just let me know. That was when our 5 year hiatus happened. Tell me why, other than he doesn't like me, he wouldn't come to me. Additionally, little by little, he has stopped doing anything that I find pleasurable, such as kissing my neck, just so he's not leading me on.

GG stated, "Which is probably why porn was so attractive. It has no needs of its own." That is the only thing I can think of that makes sense. He is tired of me. He doesn't want to put the effort in (which really wouldn't take much...at all!). Porn doesn't need him to mow the lawn, porn doesn't have an illness, porn wants nothing from him.

In my mind, he doesn't really have a low sex drive, he just doesn't want sex with me. A real world woman, who knows him and his likes, and is willing most any time.

ssmguy hit the nail on the head, "The irony is enough to drive a person insane."

[booklvr]

So, the other night, we went out for a talk and I brought up how beneficial sex would be to my health. I thought I made a pretty good argument; however, there was no real reply from him. That night, going to bed, I felt pretty hopeless. The next evening, while we were getting ready to go to our room to go to bed, I went to brush my teeth. When I came out of the bathroom, I saw (after he jumped and tried to hide it) that he was "into" the commercial about the movie, Sex Tape. The pain hit...quickly and consuming!! Unfortunately, I decided to talk to him about the previous evening's conversation, and my hopelessness. At first he became angry, then he came around and suggested that we make an appointment for the weekend. After waiting all of Sat & most of Sunday, I brought it up to him, and suggested we forgo the 'mercy' sex and just cuddle, and he went along with it. He was just fine with me touching him, but I had to encourage him to touch me. After a while, I suggested we do the same tonight. After saying he enjoyed the touching, he rolled over and went to sleep. I was awake most of the night...wishing that he would want to touch me, and maybe would have kissed me.

I'm not sure what to do tonight. I'm torn between wearing something cute and to trying to entice him, or just waiting him out. I am embarrassed that I've had to beg for sex, and I'm heart-broken he doesn't want me (and won't even play along and tell me that). I think, "If I make myself alluring then he'll want me," but I'm totally afraid that he won't. Gah!!!! I hate this!! I can't breath...

[GoatGal]

Booklvr,


That's exactly what happened with me. I stopped initiating and he just never wanted to put in ANY effort AT ALL.

He just wanted to spend 30 minutes having a cocktail, then just go in the bedroom and take my clothes off...

No affection in between these episodes, no warmup, nothing other than goal-directed physical interaction the way HE wanted.

Now he is portraying himself as a real romantic on his adult dating profile.
That's a joke. He must not understand that "romance" starts long before and lasts long after naked body parts are touching.

He would devote about an hour to me in a week, and I think he would have gotten that down to 15 minutes if he thought he could get away with it.

Just warm up with porn, "use" me, then jump up and get on with more important things.

And ssmguy, Internet porn is not just American-Made, monitored pro-film companies.
Amateur porn, Asian, Ukrainian... come on. This is 2014. There is porn for people who like to watch live creatures killed, among other awful things.

I don't know where you get this "wholesome" view of the overall industry.
There is an audience for every degrading and horrific act you can imagine.

As for "women knocking down their doors to be in porn"???
Are you serious? This is exactly what they want you to think. That these women LOVE this type of interaction.

No. They're not damaged people who have problems with self-esteem, substance abuse. They're just "every woman" who are jumping at the chance to do five guys at once who don't even know her name, much less her favorite color or how she likes her coffee.
In front of a camera, no less.

Yup. That's what we all want deep down. We're just holding back from playing out these deep fantasies of ours because society is so judgmental...

Really? Come on.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but you need to educate yourself.

I understand and appreciate that you don't understand the appeal. Your sitch is the opposite. You would prefer your real parter.

That's what booklvr and I would like too.
Our Hs now PREFER to fly solo with porn.

And if you met me, you would see that there is nothing about me that would be such a turn-off. It's my H. He has a real problem.
He did it to himself. He has ruined himself for real healthy fun sex.
He can't do it anymore.
All he wants is a willing body to "use", just the living version of porn.
Doesn't matter who it is.

I for one, am not so hard up that I will allow myself to be treated that way ever again.

Sorry for the rant.

I just got done with a weekend trip where I could have gotten my itches scratched very nicely by good men who are waiting for me to get divorced, or at least "stop being faithful to a guy who is being such a jerk to you."

I am physically lonely, no one has made love to me in close to five years, and no sex at all going on three.
You think it's easy to go back to a cushy hotel all alone when I don't have to?

Knowing my H is at home actively trying to find partners with whom to play out his porn scenarios? He doesn't even have any criteria for these people, other than they're willing, attracted to him, and sexually adventurous.

(Well, I am all three, and you see how much he ignores me. That's because people are not just body parts, and he knows I won't be disrespected like that.)

I hope he will get help for his problem.

If not, I will be moving on.

Ssmguy, please research what I've said to verify it yourself.
I don't want you to just take my word for it.

Yes, there are TedTalks on YouTube, "Yourbrainonporn",
Porn addiction websites, netflix films on the industry, "After Porn Ends" is one, "Inside Deep Throat" is another.

The American porn "industry" is rife with corruption, mobs, drugs, and worse.
The standards are hardly strict, and just like any other industry, there is corruption and abuse. To believe otherwise is naive.

But learn about it for yourself.

What they are selling is about as "wholesome and healthy" as fast food.

Porn IS the fast food version of sex.
Drive through, super-size it... Gross? Yes! But you develop a taste for that crap and the next thing you know, you're actually craving it.

I made that last part up. And I think it's pretty accurate.

----GGG