She says she's conflicted

[Oxford1]

I would want a statement like that to come with something to back it up.

He has had decades of marriage and if he listens to her, he KNOWS that she has complained about things before. This did not come out of nowhere. Have you read his entire thread?

Just so I knew she was sincere and not throwing cliche's at me.

You want to test your wife's sincerity when she tells you what she needs? Really?


(I've been separating what were genuine feelings from her and what were movie lines to rewrite history in my situation. Because I've had a confusing mix of both).


You both push too much and then seize on your w's word changes like a lawyer cross examining someone, to catch them in small variations and then call them "lies" or "confused signals".

Even if or when they are hiding something, figure out if you are playing a role in that...over reacting to things that can incentive someone to deceive.

It does not make it right but for instance, I know when my brother in law flipped his lid when my sister dented the car, the next time she got rear ended, she hid it from her h.

So, who was "more wrong" In ^^that? DOES IT MATTER -- or should her h first learn to keep a cool head?

By nature my sister is very honest but after witnessing his idiotic outburst, I could see why an upset woman with a dented car would find her husband's anger the LAST thing she felt like facing..

. And trying to "catch" a wife in a mistake makes this a competition, or punitive game, not a marriage. What is the GOAL of that? It is feeling "right"?


Why not make the goal trying to understand what your wives are telling you? Think of it as a mission...gathering intelligence for the task...
Listen and hear what your spouse is flat out telling you.

My God, a "cry for help" is NOT to be challenged. Proof is not to be demanded of her for that remark. I think It's heartbreaking.


No woman leaves a decades old marriage and children, for a silly selfish reason alone. Something important to her was missing...and You just finished telling Ox to find out why she's left and said there must be a reason-- so when he says what she says, you want to doubt her words? WHY?

Figure our your goal and get on and stay on the path to the goal. Stop letting ego and emotions knock you off the path.

I think that may help as from what you've decribed, she experienced a severe drop in respect for you.

Without that, genuine love will be difficult to re-establish.

Oxford, I repeated the Letter to you and red hawk on his thread. though I hate doing that (repeating a long post) I notice neither of you took in the words of a WAW...

you should.

I read it but fairly quickly. I got the jist of it , but not the depth if you know what I mean.

Last night my wife felt like crap. She has a bad cold, but whenever she is stressed it goes right to a migraine.
That's how I kept knowing something was up or OM was going to be in the USA.

Now it's that I get this sneaking suspicion that she's looking for confirmation that if she drops OM completely that who she sees I am is true.

I have to show that the Pain of leaving me is worse then the pain of leaving OM.

I am getting more positive signs, more natural I love yours not panned.

Actually she is " violating" her own personal boundaries she set up more and more...I am talking less acting like a female housemate and more like a wife in terms of getting dressed, pecking me on the lips instead of cheek. Etc etc...


I am going to read the letter several times to get a better understanding of the entire " concept" it is trying to convey.

Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

[Cadet]

Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

A step in the right direction.

Keep up that boundary, she will test you some more and not believe that your changes are real.

[Oxford1]

"Even if or when they are hiding something, figure out if you are playing a role in that...over reacting to things that can incentive someone to deceive."

This is so right on target.
I know not to focus on WAW or OM, but from the "last" conversation a couple of days ago, this was her reasoning to me for being more forthcoming with me then OM.

She felt I was stronger than him and less likely to fly off the handle when she is open and honest.

I know that he goes Ape-sh33t on almost every other conversation they have.

She said he is wearing her down.

As for me I have been just biting my tongue and stfu

[Starsky309]

Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

A step in the right direction.

Keep up that boundary, she will test you some more and not believe that your changes are real.

Yep. Be ready for it, Ox. "I told you before, I won't listen to this. Please stop bringing it up -- period."

[Oxford1]

Oh as a side note, this morning when she did slip into OM territory I told her I did not want to hear it, it was disrespectful to us and our marriage for me to even hear the problems you are having with OM.

A step in the right direction.

Keep up that boundary, she will test you some more and not believe that your changes are real.

Yep. Be ready for it, Ox. "I told you before, I won't listen to this. Please stop bringing it up -- period."

Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.
I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..She waxes and wains on this...Then goes Ape Sh33t on me about our past ills in our marriage.

She says I am going to leave both of you, starts crying etc...

Then like turning on a light switch she stops quiets down, says she is going to tell him to leave her alone even if he goes crazy on her..
(If it was not for legal advice I would have tried to record her when she calls him..just to see if shes honest)

Interestingly she leaves for work says she loves me its like the entire morning never happened??

I think this is why I get caught up in her and OM. Its her confusion.

I am thinking I should add this to my 180's and just walk away when she gets like this...I just do not want to be Passive-Aggressive.

[Starsky309]

Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.

You can't. She will be emotionally blocked to you. This is why everyone is telling you to WORK ON YOURSELF right now.


There will be a time, hopefully, when you can work on your marriage later. This is not that time.


Starsky

[Cadet]

Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.

YOU cant work on it while she is communicating with the OM.

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..She waxes and wains on this...Then goes Ape Sh33t on me about our past ills in our marriage.

She says I am going to leave both of you, starts crying etc...

Then like turning on a light switch she stops quiets down, says she is going to tell him to leave her alone even if he goes crazy on her..
(If it was not for legal advice I would have tried to record her when she calls him..just to see if shes honest)

Interestingly she leaves for work says she loves me its like the entire morning never happened??

I think this is why I get caught up in her and OM. Its her confusion.

I am thinking I should add this to my 180's and just walk away when she gets like this...I just do not want to be Passive-Aggressive.

See she was testing you to try to draw you back in.

Yes walk away when she get like that and STFU!

[Starsky309]

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..

This makes you look WEAK, which is also something we're trying to get you to work on. It's not an easy trick to pull off, Ox, but you have somehow managed to come across as BOTH "weak" and "controlling" all at the same time. (((rolls eyes)))

You don't ASK her to end her affair. And you don't TELL her, either (that is controlling). You TELL her that YOU cannot live in an open marriage (which you've already done, so don't tell her this again) and that you both have decisions to make.

And then you LEAVE IT, and work on yourself.

Can you see how you are simultaneously telling HER not to bring up OM, but then YOU are???


Starsky

[Oxford1]

Ok, how am I going to work on my Marriage if shes still communicating with OM.

YOU cant work on it while she is communicating with the OM.

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..She waxes and wains on this...Then goes Ape Sh33t on me about our past ills in our marriage.

She says I am going to leave both of you, starts crying etc...

Then like turning on a light switch she stops quiets down, says she is going to tell him to leave her alone even if he goes crazy on her..
(If it was not for legal advice I would have tried to record her when she calls him..just to see if shes honest)

Interestingly she leaves for work says she loves me its like the entire morning never happened??

I think this is why I get caught up in her and OM. Its her confusion.

I am thinking I should add this to my 180's and just walk away when she gets like this...I just do not want to be Passive-Aggressive.

See she was testing you to try to draw you back in.

Yes walk away when she get like that and STFU!

I know and I need to kick my self.
She tells me how he never shuts up, attacks me yada yada yada...

She tells me I repeat what I have told her..And she does this bbababab and makes talking gestures with her hands and says she has done this and dealt with it forever, but then admits only since her affair started.

I know she is being fed all this cr@p by OM and it drives me nuts. I get frustrated writing about it.

What he is trying to do is get her to get me angry enough to physically assault her.

[Oxford1]

I asked her calmly to not have hime come here again..

This makes you look WEAK, which is also something we're trying to get you to work on. It's not an easy trick to pull off, Ox, but you have somehow managed to come across as BOTH "weak" and "controlling" all at the same time. (((rolls eyes)))

You don't ASK her to end her affair. And you don't TELL her, either (that is controlling). You TELL her that YOU cannot live in an open marriage (which you've already done, so don't tell her this again) and that you both have decisions to make.

And then you LEAVE IT, and work on yourself.

Can you see how you are simultaneously telling HER not to bring up OM, but then YOU are???


Starsky

Yes, and double yes...I actually realized that when she left for work.

Mixed messages...You know she says that I send two opposing messages to her all the time.

Even today I told her that I was exhausted, that if she feels hes the better man leave. I would use an email she sent where she admits her affair to go to the judge and get her out of the house.
she started crying and screaming that I was going to ruin her that if I took an email she trusted me with and used it to ruin her. She knows that I never wanted the collaborative divorce, I tricked her into cancelling the divorce just so I could litigate and take everything from her..She was crying like a manic person.

I said woo wait a minute I thought OM was going to feed and protect you and take care of you the rest of your life, what are you so worried about...More tears and real crying real not her manipulative cr@p...

Then she said, the truth is I hate you, I want out, after the two years even and when OM is out of the picture I just dont want to be married to you anymore do you get it.!!

So I told her fine then leave now.

This weekend pack your bags and leave.

20 seconds later total calmness, friendliness telling me shes conflicted, telling me its to volatile right now shes telling OM to stay away, if he comes anyway shes going to dump him for not listening to her..hugs and kisses me before work..

I think I am dealing with a Manic Depressive..