Wife in MLC and getting ready to leave #5

[AJM]

Matt, I'm going to get a t-shirt made up that says, "Please, Please, Please don't end up like Tad" or a bracelet "PPPDT" (Tad's not so bad - just hasn't reached his limit yet to where he wants to make changes more than he wants to continue; he's almost there though...)

You could easily walk away from this with a head full of noodles.

I don't think that's the issue for you though. I think you've been dealing with "things" for a very long time. I think you're wrestling more with yourself than you are her leaving or being nutty or whatever. You have the mad skillz to deal with her shenanigans, don't you?

But I don't think we've really seen you look at you, yet. Some surface looks to sure. Some tactical looks to understand some (re)actions or other. But we don't know why you are so strongly attached to this woman, other than the 20 years you did time together

Care to share what the attraction has been? Why you didn't walk long ago?
How'd you meet? What were you doing and what were you like when you met?

AJ

[Takevowsserious]

Hi Matt,

I have been lucky in the sense that my H was/is not excessively crazy or mean throughout the crisis, though he did certainly have his moments.

At the end of my rope with everything, I had a big talk with him back in November. I copied this from one of my threads, I wanted to share it with you. It is a part of that talk...

"I'm not going to go over every detail of our convo, but I wanted to share a few things. I hope that some out there will find this helpful, giving some insight into the MLCer.

We talked about the bomb.

I said - I knew we weren't getting along, but truly never saw that coming. I always thought we could work through our problems. I wasn't prepared to hear that your feelings had changed for me, that you thought our M was a sham, that you weren't happy being here.

He told me that he had anger building up in him for a long time. That there was some stuff about me, but mostly it was other things. That everything just came to a head, and the dam burst.

So I tried to validate by saying back to him - so you are saying that you were mad at me about some things, but mostly other stuff, and took it out on me.

Him - that's exactly it.

Me - so you don't think our M is a sham?

Him - no. I didn't then, and I don't now.

Me - you may not remember much of what you have said to me over the past two years, but it has been a lot of hurtful stuff.

Him - wow, when you say it like that - two years - I didn't realize it's been that long. You have to understand that I've spent most of that time bunkered down in my own world just to survive.

Me - do you still feel that way?

Him - sometimes, but mostly not. I'm happy being home now, I like being here.

Me - because of the boys.

Him - because of them, but you too. You are part of it, part of home.

He talked about how angry he was, how nothing made him happy, not even the boys . Said how they actually added to his anger and unhappiness. Said that now, he loves being with them, looks forward to spending time with him, they make him laugh, make him happy.

I think the part where he talks about being in his own world just to survive is very telling. That's it, that's what they do in MLC. They don't live, they survive."

My point Matt is that the other posters are right when they talk about the MLCer being in a lot of pain. They don't do things to hurt us, they do things to "try" to make themselves feel better. These things often fail or the happiness is short- lived. So, they are onto the next thing...

We can't stop them, can't stop the crisis. We can only get out of the way, and take care of ourselves and our children.

Please try to take care of yourself

[mirage]

Matt,

Please read and reread takevow's entry. There is an example of someone's spouse speaking from a place outside the tunnel.

"bunkered down in my own world just to survive"

^^^^^ That was my world in MLC for about 2 yrs perfectly described. I woke up to just surviving that day, nothing else.

That's why you get out of the way. Hopefully this also shows some posters that a few do come through the tunnel and can reflect back on the experience, and understand the journey somewhat. If you ask some inquisitive questions such as taketwo you will get some insight as well.

Matt, your wife is not there, but you can see what it looks like. but..... for now move on in your own journey.

I don't know if book title's are accepted here. "death of the hero, birth of the soul" was one of the best source books on MLC and gives details of timelines.

Thanks for the post takevow, hopefully this helps Matt.

Mirage

[willbwell]

good stuff there. Matt, just want to share. I was one to try and talk my h out of his actions.... if only he would listen,if only he would see.
It took me a long time to finally get it.
The saying is true, we did not break them, we can not fix them...
After 2 years , I am finally getting there.
Every day, you can get stronger.
Choose to be the best that you can be.
The choices you make are yours

[Wonka]

Matt,

This is the BEST, BEST summary of the MLCer mind!!

Him - wow, when you say it like that - two years - I didn't realize it's been that long. You have to understand that I've spent most of that time bunkered down in my own world just to survive.

In my previous posts, I have stated that we MLCers just want you to get the f*ck outta our faces because it feels pressure to us. Enormous. Which is why many of us contemplate moving out or already have moved out.

Let. Her. Go.

TVS, thanks for posting the convo with your H here. I hope it is very enlightening to the LBS here struggling with their MLCer.

[Matt165]

Hello everyone and thank you one and all for all of your insight!
I've been unable to read or post the last couple days as I've bee having internet problems once again. Hope no one thinks I haven't been paying attention and sorry I wasn't able to respond.

I really do get it that my W is gone. I see it in every little interaction. I think many of you think that I talk to my W about the things I post here, I don't. I avoid talking about the M or our R most of the time. I usually just agree or let her talk about the things that are on HER mind. Right now that is her father, mostly. She went to be with him at M.D. Anderson where he is getting his chemo this weekend. She was told that he has a 40% chance of the chemo working to stop the spread of his cancer. I know everyone thinks I "blame" her father for many of her actions. I don't blame him for her wanting to leave, but I do understand that a big reason she is moving as quickly as she is is because this is what HE wants her to do and she has wanted his love and approval for her entire life and this has been a way to get him to pay attention to her. There is no doubt of this. For the first time in a very long time he is wanting to help her. He is telling her not what he had been in the past, that her life is wasted by being a wife and mother but he is now telling her he is 'proud" of her for becoming like him. For her this is like crack. While she was there her brother called her father. He just wanted to tell him that he loves him and is worried about him. Her fathers response? He refused to speak to him and doesn't want "anything to do with him". This is telling. My W has feared that her father would do the same to her. That he would just not want her to be part of her life either and this has weighed heavy on her. It's all very sad, really. Her father is so very damaged and in turn has damaged the people who loved him, the people who only want him to be a part of their lives. Of all the people to have involved in all that is going on, he is the worst possible. If he was telling her that she was making a mistake. That she should at least try and see if she can save her marriage, she would be doing that if only to get his love and attention. Powerful dynamic going on there for sure!

Again, not the sole reason she is doing anything. It's just a bonus and reason to keep moving forward as quickly as she is. I decided to try and pay closer attention to what my W speaks about most. What I have noticed over the past several months is that the thing that she talks about 99% of the time is herself or her father. She never asks about anything in my life outside of how it affects her. Very rarely even talks about the kids and even then, only when I bring them up in some way. She has a strong NEED to be EXACTLY right and will get upset if I disagree in the slightest with even small things. She lives in fear of so many things. The woman who she, at least at this time, is closest to at work is going away for two weeks. She is so upset about this and is saying how lonely she is going to be without her. Lonely? Really? Odd thing to say about someone you work with.

I am not standing in her way, nor am I holding onto her pant leg as uR put it. I haven't tried to stop her from leaving or made it more difficult. Not sure how much more supportive I could be without helping her pack! For now all I'm trying to do is get my stuff together and move forward in my own life knowing that I will soon be living a much different life. Different not by my choice but because I have no control at all over what my W chooses to do or not do.

I do understand that my W has been "surviving" for some time. She has talked about how she sometimes "doesn't want to live", how she so badly needs things to change. She really does need help. I really believe that she needs to find a good IC and get help with how she can't seem to shake her depression/anxiety issues. I wonder if she will stop feeling the "pressure" that you talk about Wonka once she is gone and on her own. I am not at all "in her face" anymore. I understand now that when I tried to get her to do things together over the last few years, get her to be more involved with me and the kids, that was enormous pressure to her. She was desperately trying to feel better, stop her inner turmoil and I was pushing her to do something she may have even enjoyed if she had done it but not what she thought she wanted or needed in her life.

I hope she finds what she thinks she will. I don't see how she will find the answers she is looking for by doing what she is but that is just what I think. Maybe she will. She needs something to change in her life, that's for certain. Heck, I need something to change in my life or I will become just as insane as I see her to be! This would all be so much easier if it wasn't for the girls and how her leaving is going to effect them both. That is the thing that bothers me the most.

Got a lot of work to do today. Working on my list and seeing what GAL activities I can find. Thanks again everyone!

[willbwell]

have you considered asking about her father...maybe going with a different approach. I haven't read all your posts because frankly, they are a bit long for me.
But what if you gave the impression to your w that you were happy for that she and her father have reconnected?
would this be a 180?

[BrightFuture]

Matt, and everybody, sorry for high jacking this thread. I just wanted to answer to those of you who posted the replies to my earlier post.

Mirage, it doesn’t offend me to read posts like that. Maybe I misread it, but it sounded like a downer to me. Why it bothered me? Because like I said I come to this board for hope and support. It doesn’t matter if I express the same feelings over and over again, I always have somebody repeating the basics to me over and over again. My friends and family are way past this kind of support. They just want me to get over it and move on.

Wonka, I get it that you just want to be “realistic”. It makes me think about what my H said about me. One of his issues with me was that I was “negative” from his point of view. I thought I was realistic. Two years post BD, I’m in a different place, my glass is half full most of the time. On the other side, when I look at H from outside, I see that he had some convictions that were purely based on how he wanted to think. For example he only has 10-15 years to live, that I will never change, etc. He thinks that this is realistic and not negative in any way. He always likes to say that “this is the way it is”. So, I supposed I can say that my H’s views are different too. He is not mean, he is quite reasonable in a lot of things, he is not blaming me anymore, it looks like he is content with his life. Should I consider him making it through MLC and being on the other side now? Just with the different views… This is where I’m confused. This is what probably triggered my response to Mirage.

Mach1, you said that Mirage is not trying to steal anybody’s hope here. I believe it. It is just I have a science background and when I hear that very few make it out of MLC, I think statistics, and it makes me hopeless. How am I better than somebody else to make that small percentage of success? This is depressing.

Job, I like the 50/50 chance a lot better. I might come to the same conclusion as Mirage in a couple of years, but I guess I need some hope and positive outlook for now. This is a process, and we all go through it in our own pace.

Again, sorry for the high jack and for the ramble (I just cannot express what I think and feel as good as other people here.) I will not bring this topic again.

[Matt165]

Hi Will,
Good thought as that is exactly what I've been trying to do. I am always supportive when she wants to talk about how he is doing or if he is feeling badly. I express to her that I hope everything works out for him. I do not try and stop her from visiting and actually have helped by taking care of our D so she could go. I have told her that I don't like the fact that she brought him into our M problems and has done whatever he seems to think is "right" but that was when he came during D's graduation and I have avoided talking about it since. I think the problem here is that she knows too well how I feel about him and his views about M and family. Heck, until now she held the same thoughts about him! But I get the idea and I'm trying my best.

W spoke to me tonight and said she is going to start moving. She said it will take time as she has to move a lot of stuff but that she wants to start. I told her that was fine. She also said that she and I will need to divide the furniture! She of course wants to keep all the new stuff and what she calls her "family" stuff. Problem there is her "family" stuff was bought while she wasn't working when her grandmother moved with OUR savings. I will be wanting to keep some of that myself! This may turn into a problem as I was wondering about it. Didn't know if it was furnished or not as she won't talk to me about it.

For my part I plan on being as nice about it as I can without giving away too much. Tomorrow she plans on taking my D14 to activate her phone and then to see the new house. And she says I'm manipulative! She has refused to get her a phone when I wanted to for the last year and now she is doing this as a way to get her happy! We will see. Not upset about it really. I do think it's getting to be time. I just don't want to lose time with my D.

[Matt165]

Hello everyone.
Just wanted to let everyone know that I was able to get enough money made in the last week that I can have some breathing room, at least for the next few months. The way this new company I'm with works is I get paid on the close of a sale. I was able to close 3 in the last 2 weeks and that will give me the funds that I can now afford to take care of things. Still need to keep on it but at least I won't be so broke I can't afford food! My next goal is to see if I can't keep this run going and make enough in the next few weeks to afford to send my D14 to the school she wants and her sister just graduated from.

Not sure if I can get my W to pay her part if I can come up with half but hopefully I can make enough to make that mute. If I do, I guess we will see if my W was being honest about only the money holding her back from sending her. I have a feeling she doesn't want to be bothered with picking her up and dropping her off when she has custody. She should have waited or talked to me before deciding to move so far away "for the good schools", like she claims.

I will admit that I feel so much better now than I have in a long time. All the worrying about my M has really held me back from doing the best job I can. That is totally on me and I really need to let go and start to worry only about doing the best I can for myself and both my girls. I know my D18 (will be 19 on the 21st!) is going to live with me so I need to be able to take care of her, myself and my D14. That has to be my #1 priority. Especially now that my W is starting to move to her new place.

I know this is just a start but man it feels so much better knowing I will have money in the bank!