Ouch is right. Adolescent girls can be tough! And I can imagine that it's even harder when you and her dad are not on the same page.
I don't have any great advice...except to remember that you can only control YOU. As someone who has worked with 11 year olds for a long time, I can say that they sometimes have trouble seeing beyond black and white.. but also often respond well to positive attention... letting them feel like they have some control... and definitely modeling (and explicit coaching) on appropriate behavior. In other words, remember what you tried when she was 3? It's kind of the same thing now. (!!)
If I were you, I would probably try to avoid situations where she will be in the middle of a power struggle between you and H. (Taking things away doesn't work that well, anyway, TBH, and it certainly won't work if her father just gives in. In fact, that will be WORSE for both of you.) If you feel like you have to take something away from her, it should be something that you have control over without having to rely on H to back you up. (not easy, I know). That will help her respect you more, I think.
Have you read, "How to talk so kids will listen..and listen so kids will talk"? Sometimes "ugly" behavior is really a call for help. If you become the person who truly listens to her, even when she is acting "ugly", that will help your relationship in the long run. Model for her what effective conflict resolution can look like, especially if she didn't see it in your M. If you don't know yourself, this is something you probably want to discuss in IC or to read about.
Hang in there. And keep at it-- she is at a pretty critical point, right on the edge of adolescence and going through a parents' divorce. YOU can be a really awesome guide and source of strength for her!
Thanks, Claire... If I don't come up with consequences how am I supposed to enforce the rules??? I send her to her room and she just keeps coming out to scream at me and kick stuff. This is what she's been like since she was 2.
Her father wouldn't have given it back right then. He's only going to see her every other week (and not at all in the month of June). If the iPad is forfeit he won't have access to return it to her.
I understood EXACTLY what was up with her -- she was overtired from a sleep over. It wasn't a cry for help or anything else. Believe me, I've read twenty parenting books to understand how to reach her. I've talked to pediatricians. She's taken up session of my IC time. She just has a tremendously difficult temperament. She's super smart and knows how to get people where it hurts. She has already apologized and returned to her sweet self and acknowledged that she was just taking out her tiredness on me. But if I let her just walk all over me all the time it just makes things worse. She seems to think she's being ignored if she acts up and nobody responds to her.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope I don't come across as self-righteous, because I'm certainly not an expert... but I have been working (as a teacher) with this age group for over 10 years. And I've struggled with the same thing in my classroom. Lately, I've been using the mantra "If they could, they would" when thinking about kids who have trouble academically AND socially.
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I send her to her room and she just keeps coming out to scream at me and kick stuff. This is what she's been like since she was 2.
Quote:
I understood EXACTLY what was up with her -- she was overtired from a sleep over. It wasn't a cry for help or anything else.
Quote:
She just has a tremendously difficult temperament. She's super smart and knows how to get people where it hurts. She has already apologized and returned to her sweet self and acknowledged that she was just taking out her tiredness on me. But if I let her just walk all over me all the time it just makes things worse. She seems to think she's being ignored if she acts up and nobody responds to her.
Of course, I don't know you or your D, but it sounds a little bit like she doesn't have great control over her emotions. If she could control herself, she probably would. (She is sweet-natured!) The problem with consequences is that they don't actually teach her how to control her emotions.
She is old enough to discuss this with her. Maybe something like: "I've noticed that when you get upset, you {insert what you observe, without judgement}". Offer validation for her feelings. Tell her you want to help her find some better, healthier ways to calm herself down so that she doesn't hurt herself or anyone else." (Maybe here is where you can add how it hurts your feelings when she screams, or that it feels unsafe when she kicks things?)
Then, teach her some strategies for calming herself down. "The next time you feel that way, you can try... (taking deep breaths, punching a pillow, etc. etc." Then, show her what you mean, practice it (together!) when you are both calm. And don't be surprised if she doesn't change overnight. But the next time she is out of control, you can (calmly) remind her. And, if you try ignoring her (I do that all the time with my pre-schooler!), make sure you tell her why, calmly. "I am going to leave the room and wait out here because I don't like how you are screaming at me... But when you are more calm, we can talk about it."
I hope this helps. (and again, I'm really sorry if this comes across as pretentious or know-it-all-y. This is a topic very close to my heart). Hang in there.
Claire, thanks for the suggestions. You didn't come across as a know-it-all... it's just that I've been struggling with this for so long and have asked so many people for help and I seem unable to explain the problem very well.
She does extremely well in school. NOBODY outside our family believes that she could be anything other than the sweetest kid in the universe. All her grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins HAVE seen this behavior and their suggestions have been very unhelpful and judgmental. It is tremendously frustrating.
I have to give her credit... throughout most of this crisis she has been sweet, helpful, nurturing, and taken on more responsibility than she ought to (we have discussed this as well -- I've assured her I'm the parent, she can just be a kid, I will still take care of her and her brothers, etc.) So she was kind of due a temper tantrum. Nobody can keep it together like that. But with me she seems to feel free to turn into a raging beast when she needs to. It would be easier to take if she didn't know EXACTLY how to hit me where there is no armor.
It might be worth mentioning that this has been an issue for H as well. His sister and his mom NEVER argued -- never. Both have confirmed that with me. So he seems to think that D11 and I are "oil and water" which is not remotely true. She & I are pretty close most of the time.
(BTW, she came to me before bed this evening and asked... "If I had done X, would I not have lost my iPad?" I confirmed that was the case, and she said, "OK. I guess I should have." -- so I guess working on self-control is now on her radar.)
Anyway... this is a marriage forum, not a parenting forum, so thanks for responding with helpful points. You didn't sound pretentious at all. I don't want you to think I resented your input -- I welcome advice. I'm probably the tough nut in this case, since I've been working on the problem with her for so long and I've felt so unsupported. My boys are so easy compared (and the middle guy is ADD)...
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
You're right-- this isn't a parenting forum, so I could see how it might seem "off-topic" or out of bounds to discuss parenting. And at the same time, I can't help thinking that our relationships with our kids (and our spouse's relationships with our kids) play a significant role in some of our marriages... so working on our relationships with our kids--and our parenting strategies--could, in a way, support our DBing!
My D3 can be fairly strong-willed, too. She generally behaves really well for teachers, her babysitter, her grandma... but lets it loose when I'm around. My friends have all told me that it's because she feels so safe around me. So, that's another way to look at it! Your D knows that you love her unconditionally, no matter how awful she behaves. And that's a good thing.
You're right, it's not a parenting forum but parenting issues go along with marriage and marital difficulties.
We don't parent with a different brain than we use in our marriage, it's the same brain, loaded with the same stories.
I didn't try to control just my husband, I wanted to control my H, my kids, my coworkers, friends, various people I would come in contact with...I had so much fear of losing control.
Are there similarities in the stories your mind is telling you about your D and those it tells you about H?
Last edited by labug; 06/16/1402:46 PM.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I was raised very, very strictly by a very unconfident mother (22 when I was born) and a workaholic father who I don't recall being around a whole lot. My mom has very strong ideas of "should" -- romantic ones, the sort you'd see on TV or in books about the "right" way of doing basically everything. I was a fairly normal kid but there were boundaries we just did not cross: touching anything at the store, for example, going into the living room (as opposed to the family room, which was where we were supposed to be), not going into my parents' room ever, etc. Some of this I think was normal for the seventies and some was not so much. In addition, my family moved every 2-3 years till I was 13, so there was a certain kind of instability built into my early life. So yeah, I've got some control issues, among other things, and confidence was a big problem for me till the last, say, 5-6 years. Now it's just a medium-sized problem.
H, on the other hand, lived in the same small town his entire life, where his great-grandparents (and perhaps even further back) settled, always well-off, family relaxed, maybe a little entitled, and nothing was a big deal.
So my attitude with the kids is a little controlling, a little relaxed, sometimes kind of snappy (I react sometimes like my mother, who I remember as being overwhelmed with four kids and a fairly inconsiderate husband, always feeling put-upon and never quite adequate, terrified of saying no to anybody from fear of rejection). Sometimes I can be really fun and goofy. But I want things to happen when I ask for them. Lately also I've been preoccupied with M worries, of course (trying to correct that, but the thoughts sneak up on me, you know?) and in the past I've been preoccupied with impending moves every couple of years, and the uncertainty of all our moves makes me sometimes a little nutso.
With my H too, I have been sometimes controlling, often snappy, slow to notice when he's being helpful (he doesn't know my love language, for sure, and I'm not sure of his). My kids can laugh at me and it's kind and makes us all happy, but I'm reluctant to show my husband my goofiness because I feel like he thinks I'm stupid because he prefers a drier, more cutting form of humor. Like that's more intellectual. So I already close that part of me off from him, while I'm more willing to show my kids all of me. Was it like that when we were dating? I don't remember. As I say, his family is rather entitled and at the moment I feel like that's my main sense of him. But I no longer really trust my memories.
When I have problems with my daughter (didn't today, thankfully), I think the underlying value that is being insulted by her behavior is that people who love and respect you don't treat you with such utter disregard for your feelings. That's not a reasonable expectation of a child, but it is very reasonable to expect it of my spouse. One of the things we addressed in MC was my loneliness in the M and how I reacted to the feeling I had that if he really cared about me he'd want to spend time with me and enjoy my company. The fact that that was not at all how H experienced our M was a gap that we didn't get to address because I discovered he was contacting OW all through our MC and we ended the MC.
Because we have moved so many times since we've been married, as well as through my childhood, I have always been fairly detached from my friends and able to accept them for who they are, so the need to control them or demand that kind of reciprocity from them is a lot less. People are how you find them, in my experience, and if you don't like what you find you limit your interactions to a level you can live with and find people you like better. I'm pretty accepting of most people, especially in the last year since BD, which has been so humbling. So I kind of live two selves -- the home self who can be really cagy, and the public self, who can give more freely because I have less investment in those relationships.
This is why DETACH is such a mantra around here, I guess.
So what does all this mean?
I guess it means I should take more of my attitudes towards the people who AREN'T in my family and apply them to H, kids, and extended family.
That I should acknowledge and act on the fact that I'm a lot happier when I try to control less.
That if I can't be myself as freely with my H as I am with my kids that something about that relationship must change.
What else?
Thanks for these great insightful questions...
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Just a note to say that your self-reflection and insight are really really impressive. You have the whole rest of your life to craft a new version of yourself--keeping the best parts, modifying the parts that weren't bringing you the happiness and peace you deserve...
I am in a similar boat (and at a similar age), and I keep telling myself that if this (ending my M) is the price I had to pay to finally get to live the happy, healthy life I deserve... maybe it was worth it? Because that is pretty huge.
