CW I'm pretty sure there is a certain defensiveness on my part in the SAHM post. But I think some of it rang true for you and it seems to have rung true for others too and it definitely made me feel better to write it so maybe it wasn't the worst thing in the world.
Goatgal really took what I was getting at and ran with it. And I see similarities between your two situations and mine and that is enormously helpful.
I've tried to say before, and I hope you believe it, only you know what your actual situation is, I'm just responding to what I read, and how it strikes me from my own situation.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Cw... what a day you have had! (And me too! The scales are falling from our eyes...)
You sound SO much like my husband. All that "being proud of her" stuff. All that talk about "service". Right on!
I am really impressed with how you're thinking things through from a different perspective.
I am new to this forum so I'm far from experienced.
But I am a woman. And a woman who, although she loved her husband and he loved her, were unable to fulfill each other's needs because we weren't speaking the same language.
What we women need is that emotional connection---EVERYTHING FLOWS FROM THAT.
That's why the "nice guys" fall by the wayside in favor of the sleaze balls who can "fake" great intimacy. Woman swoon under it. (Granted, when we swoon we are under the impression that it's real. And boy are we ticked when we find out we've been had! So it's got to be REAL.)
It's most of what we need from a man.
Somebody on here said if you can do this, she will be under your spell... (paraphrasing). That is TRUE, especially if she already loves you!
And she married YOU, right?
Just like even though you're frustrated right now, deep down you cared enough to have come here for---something. Even if you didn't know what it was. And look what you got!!!
Those feelings are just feelings.
They are driven by your THOUGHTS and PERCEPTIONS.
If your thoughts and perceptions of the situation are inaccurate, then your FEELINGS about that situation will be wrong as well.
Sometimes all we need is accurate information to assess what's really going on.
Feelings are like weather. (Or the stock market). Wait around awhile and they'll change.
PS: An emotional affair is in many ways as devastating, or even more devastating than a purely physical one. Any type of outside relationship that creates distance between spouses, where intimate information is shared that belongs between husband and wife, is VERY HURTFUL and DEFINITELY counts as "cheating". You will see it referred to here as PA (Physical Affair) and EA (Emotional Affair). Plenty of marriages blow up over EAs too. Because they are a betrayal of the vows you made with your spouse. Period.
And people who have trouble with intimacy tend to throw up barriers to getting really close to their loved ones. An EA is a great example of this.
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Ok. Lots of reflection I've been told in here that love is a choice. ( still kicking that one around in my heart ). This may be true. But to me it kinda sounds like it reduces the word and concept. I thought love was an unstoppable force that the conscious mind couldn't withstand. A driving emotion. I'm not sure I want it to be simply a choice. When I first met w I know for a fact that it wasn't some logical choice I made. It was a BAM I love this woman. I wanted her time her attention her touch her voice her smile. I didn't look across the room and think "she's nice I think I'll love her". So the concept of chosing love bothers me and I'd like to explore why. I understand the concept of chosing to embrace the feeling but not chosing to have the feeling.
PS: An emotional affair is in many ways as devastating, or even more devastating than a purely physical one. Any type of outside relationship that creates distance between spouses, where intimate information is shared that belongs between husband and wife, is VERY HURTFUL and DEFINITELY counts as "cheating". You will see it referred to here as PA (Physical Affair) and EA (Emotional Affair). Plenty of marriages blow up over EAs too. Because they are a betrayal of the vows you made with your spouse. Period.
( I haven't figured out how to put those nice little boxes up with a snippet from a previous thread so I just keep cutting and pasting. )
Ok an EA is the same transgression as a PA. I'll accept. During the M I never saw it that way. I wasn't getting any emotional support from W( and yes I probably wasn't giving it either but assigning blame is as valid now as the chicken and the egg argument. She did this I did that or was it really I did that she did this so I did that. Mind boggling). We had such a wonderful relationship on so many levels that the lack of communication in the important areas seemed to go unnoticed. We had a good marriage with unsaid issues. Looking back I think it would have been healthier for both of us to have some big huge explosion. That way we both could have said " oh look a problem. Let's fix that". My W had written that she knew about my EA. And how it hurt her and why didn't I get that part from her. For my part I didn't know I was having an EA ( I hope someone in here understands that ). For me it was a co worker who was going through hard times , D and children troubles. She valued my input and we talked often. If felt so good to have someone ask my opinion. w never asked my opinion. Right from the beginning. That's not a shot. It's a truth. So in the very typical male mind I was flattered to have a woman seek me out and ask for help. And stupidly I never associated it with an A. " because we weren't physical". But reflection has me asking myself a question and already knowing the answer. " if I thought it was fine why did I keep it from W?" Arrrg cause somewhere in my gut I knew it wasn't fine! I'm starting to really hate this self examination ;-)
Is it ok to post actual events or things and not just emotional states cause I do have some questions and I just want feed back. I'm not trying to bash but I want input. Is that ok?
I'll post anyways and let the beatings begin. I'm talking to you cadet :-)
When we finally started talking about problems at the beginning of S W said she stopped the physical because she didn't feel loved. And she need to feel the emotional to give the physical. I didn't understand exactly because I can have one or the other or both. She said I didn't show her I cared. What does that mean? Help. I'm going to give a list and I want to know is this not showing or am I just getting it all wrong. I loved W very much and there are thing a did from the very beginning right up to S that I did without thought but because it always felt right. D bring her coffee in bed and leave on the nightstand because I often left for work before she was up, I opened doors all doors any doors she always walked through fist In winter I set her car up for winter driving dusted off in the morning for her Did the dishes and cleaned the kitchen at night before going to bed because I knew she was tired from a day with the kids, there were back rubs, supporting her interests by volunteering to help at events, I held her had , complimented her, brought flowers, filled her wine glass,agonized over her Christmas gifts ( except once when I included a salad spinner in the foray. Became a bit of a joke. Let's say it was an epic fail) brought her blankets when she was cold unloaded the car when she got back from shopping, took time out of my day to run an errand for her. When we went shopping and she try on something I thought looked amazing my only response was that looks fantastic let's get it. When she went back to school I sat for hours and hours and listened to topics from class. I re and reread her papers , I asked her opinion. When we traveled together I drove a lot but she always sat beside me. Even when other couples were traveling with us and the guy would go for the front seat I'd stop him and say sorry bud. Only on person sits up front and you ain't it( that one sounds weird. She drove a lot of the time too this isn't a male dominate thing this is me saying that my W will never sit behind me)
These things aren't fiction. I did them not because I wanted a pat on the back. I did them because I loved her. And I thought that they would show her exactly that. I do these thing because I love you. But when we spoke she said she didn't feel loved. In that I'm lost. Thoughts, insight, anything. Help If small gestures are the halmark of love. Where did I fail?
Looking back I think it would have been healthier for both of us to have some big huge explosion. That way we both could have said " oh look a problem. Let's fix that". My W had written that she knew about my EA. And how it hurt her and why didn't I get that part from her. For my part I didn't know I was having an EA ( I hope someone in here understands that ). For me it was a co worker who was going through hard times , D and children troubles. She valued my input and we talked often. If felt so good to have someone ask my opinion. w never asked my opinion. Right from the beginning. That's not a shot. It's a truth. So in the very typical male mind I was flattered to have a woman seek me out and ask for help. And stupidly I never associated it with an A. " because we weren't physical". But reflection has me asking myself a question and already knowing the answer. " if I thought it was fine why did I keep it from W?" Arrrg cause somewhere in my gut I knew it wasn't fine! I'm starting to really hate this self examination ;-)
Actually I see this as good first steps in where you need to go.
So if you now know that it wasnt fine - what can you DO about that?
