Ok enough bs Here we go I can walk into the most dire of situations and take control. As an emt I have done that from everything from drug beating car accidents cardiac arrest and deliverying a baby. No issue here. As long as it doesn't involve me I'm solid strong and capable. But the minute it's about me. My wants my choices. I revert to the child who only wants to please everyone and be liked. At 46 I am still the child I was taught to be. It ended my marriage. It built up bitterness and self loathing. And it made me feel weak. So now I'm here. A starting point. I have an ic. I have friends who I've said this to and who are working to support my changes. I am on step one.
Great to hear! Do you think you could put out into the world what you wish to receive in return? Do you think you could put out towards your W what you wish to receive in return? and not resent her if she doesn't change right away? Would that make YOU feel better about yourself and your life?
Do we act a certain way because we expect something in return, and then get mad if we don't get what we expect in return? Or do we act a certain way because that's the kind of person we want to be?
Ic work has been exactly that. Looooooooong way to go lol. Expectations cause disappointment. I am working on me. I am working on not having expectations but to give freely. Most days have been much better. Others not so good.
I made a big mistake during my m. I allowed w to validate me. To define me instead of defining myself. When she stopped validating who I was for me. I didn't know how to move forward. Does that make sense to anyone.
Recently I did something I have deep regret about. I invaded her privacy and read her words. I saw a truth about how she saw me and was destroyed by it. In that way she was right. I am weak So I continue my ic work. I look in the mirror and say you have worth. And I move forward. I'm trying to leave that pouty little boy behind. It ain't easy people. It ain't easy
CW, if you read DR you will find 180s and a lot more detail on the information you're being offered here.
If it wasn't worth the effort to your W to keep the house clean to your standards (as an example of one of your unmet needs), then perhaps you want to consider if you asked for your needs to be met in a way that was demotivating to her? Or if she felt like her needs weren't met (although you took actions hoping to make her happy, they weren't perhaps the ones she needed) and therefore chose to not meet yours because it would have required, in her view, unequal effort relative to what she thought you were putting into the marriage? Just a guess. But most people who feel loved work to meet their partner's needs.
I don't think anyone here thinks your needs are unimportant. But how you presented yourself in your earliest posts was strongly antagonistic. You sounded demanding, impossible to please, and, if you'll forgive me, very unlikeable. It was pointed out to you early on that most of the people on this forum are hurting spouses who would do a LOT to recover our marriages and to understand how to build a great relationship with our spouses and your early posts were venom-filled diatribes against what looked like a LBS. It wasn't a great way to introduce yourself and certainly colors a lot of the feedback you've received. (People here call strong responses "2x4's" -- as in, a whack upside the head with a 2x4) Your more recent posts are a lot more measured which is why you're getting better feedback now. But if your earlier posts are what it was like to live with you... That might be something for you to consider from your wife's point of view.
Sure it must hurt to think your wife thinks you're weak. From your perspective you have a high-pressure job you don't like, and you've sacrificed a lot for what you perceive as the well-being of your family. What would it have been like to have had a truly open and honest series of conversations with your wife about both your needs, about bringing them all into balance, about goals for the future that could be achieved without sacrificing the quality of the present? But you don't seem to have done that. Instead you buckled to what you thought your wife wanted, and which seems from here to have been kind of a consolation prize for her. Speaking for myself, I'd MUCH rather have a close and loving marriage than a distant husband with a good income. There are a number of threads on this forum that talk about the importance of strong boundaries and how they build respect from the other person, even when they seem to be causing frustration *in the short term.* Those posts are worth seeking out. (you can do a search in the bar above)
What you're saying you've learned in IC about letting your wife validate you is, I'm pretty sure, totally familiar to everyone here. It's why the divorce-busting mantra is DETACH. It's the short version of what you're trying to achieve through IC. We all try, succeed some, fail some, and keep trying again. The journey, not the destination matters.
Yes, you have worth. YOU HAVE WORTH. It can be hard to remember it, but you do. WE ALL DO. Including your wife, no matter how angry you are with her. Try as you can to drop the anger towards her, towards yourself, and see what it feels like to live that way. You will be surprised at how free it feels.
Read Divorce Remedy and Five Love Languages. Do the 10 things exercise Rick(?) recommended a couple of days ago. See what you discover, and keep posting here. You seem to be getting someplace.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
In my first post to you I said believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
And since I know that you have read her thread you will find that it said exactly the same thing.
So what that means is that if you wish to communicate with her it must not be with words but with ACTIONS.
The same will go for her.
So you have learned here that we will not tolerate disrespect and you have changed your tone. Good job. Now you need to back that up with actions.
I hope that makes sense.
This will not be a short journey. There will be no easy buttons. No shortcuts. It requires work, but not like digging a ditch. Internal work. You will have setbacks.
You cant change the past, but you can control your actions now and in the future.
I hope you are really in this and this is a point forward for you.
I hope you will continue to post here throughout your journey.
My husband has filed for divorce, and although he never voiced complaints during our 22 year marriage, after he filed he screamed at me: "I've given you EVERYTHING!!!!"
I never understood this until today, reading your posts and all the great replies.
He too is one who stuffs his feelings, wants to please, feels that he has given so much... and he has. Absolutely. He paid for my college loans, my braces, my fancy laptop; he did this happily and I *thought* I showed my appreciation by being thankful and happy.
Unfortunately, the one thing he was unable to give was his emotional side. He had trouble voicing his opinions and resorted to passive-aggressive tactics. I didn't want to "have my own way". I wanted a strong man who could, when necessary, take charge.
Like your wife, I describe myself as a "strong woman". Not domineering or overbearing, but resilient and with a backbone. I felt sometimes he wouldn't offer his side if it meant we might disagree, he would avoid conflict at all costs.
Funny thing is, we BOTH wanted the same things, but we disagreed on how to get there.
But I see now how resentment built up on his side. But it also built up on mine---AND I IGNORED IT.
You see, while he was placing high value on himself as an excellent provider, my needs were not being met.
I never cared about money (tho you can bet I care about it now since he is dumping me...). What I WANTED was a partner I could connect with, spend time with, make love with.
What HE wanted was for me to SHOW him, through my actions, that I was "working as hard as he was."
No sex for almost two years prior to his affair.
Want to know why?
Just like other posters said: I did not feel connected. I did not feel loved in the way I needed to feel. I did not feel valued as a whole woman. I felt I was more "useful" than anything. (Now granted, there were other issues at play, but you can read my thread for those.)
I finally said that I was always there for him physically, but that he'd have to actually put in some effort. He never did. Whether it was because he felt outside of his comfort zone, too much porn, too much resentment, or feeling like I was rejecting him is anybody's guess. But if I had to guess I'll say: All of the above.
The point here is, he felt that working hard, being "nice" and doing things around the house meant that was enough to give.
It wasn't.
I felt neglected, depressed, and lonelier when he was here than I feel now that he's gone.
When he had his affair, he felt entitled. He was angry. He felt I didn't appreciate him.
Yet I felt unappreciated as well and I can see now where I started to focus on myself and my own happiness years ago. Granted, I never cheated or did anything that was against my ethics, but I no longer made HIM my focus.
At first the more I tried to connect---"Let's TALK about US!" "I am SO UNHAPPY!" "WHY won't you spend time with me/do fun stuff with me/laugh with me/hold me/make love to me like a tender lover (Instead of a "Porn Star" Sorry, Eric! ;0 )/ tell me how you feel/what you want/what keeps you up at night/what you dream of..."
Well, needless to say, this approach did not exactly draw him to me. Long before he cheated or filed for divorce, this approach was shut down with blaming and changing the subject.
And, as he wanted. I dropped it.
I just didn't understand then. He couldn't talk about those things. It made him REALLY uncomfortable. (Multiply that times a million and you have an idea of where we are now.)
Call it his childhood issues, whatever. The point was we loved each other but didn't know how to communicate that well to each other.
I guess we did to some degree since we lasted this long, but when things get stressful that's when it starts to fall apart.
For myself, my resentment took on a physical aspect. I developed Fibromyalgia and after a severe back injury was in chronic pain. I think I also was depressed.
So was I a great housekeeper? Nope. Was I a sex kitten eagerly awaiting his arrival in a French Maid outfit with fresh baguettes and home-made goat cheese? Not on your life. In fact, looking back I can see where I started to dread his coming home.
No wonder the man cheated.
So what I'm saying is: Listen to what the others are saying. You still love your wife! You adore your kids! You value your role as a good provider. And you are doing the brave thing by facing up to your weaknesses and trying to be a better man.
There are two sides to every story and I'll bet your wife's story is a lot like mine.
I'll bet she loves you too, warts and all. Or she wouldn't have stayed with you all these years.
Maybe look back and see if she was giving you clues to her discontent over the years. If so, how did you handle them?
I am new here myself, but your thread was such an eye-opener for me.
Whatever happens with your M, you have made a difference in mine. I am looking forward to reading and learning more.
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
I wanted to add... you ask why SAH parents are treated as a special thing. I won't answer for anyone else, but from my own perspective, staying home isn't *just* a job like any other.
It is an act of trust in the other spouse, making ourselves financially vulnerable on faith that we are working together to build a specific kind of life.
It isn't a job you can just quit when the working conditions are no longer to your liking. It doesn't have limited hours like any other form of employment. It requires a kind of selflessness to perform the work at hand, especially when the kids are young -- you're doing work FOR OTHERS all the time, generally for little more than appreciation which is usually pretty thin on the ground.
SAH parents are often criticized by the people for whom they perform these selfless tasks and given little to no appreciation. No job stays done for more than a few hours at a time. There is an expertise required to do it well that is generally devalued in the outside world. Just think how often you see articles telling parents all the ways we're messing up our kids. Do you see a widespread genre of literature telling salespeople or accountants how many different ways they screw up at work?
Working parents typically say "What's the big deal? I do everything they do AND I have a job." But working parents are able to get some needs met (validation, compensation, more general respect and periodic reviews, a sense of identity or community related to the workplace) outside the home, while SAH parents by definition will have to do without seeing those needs met, unless they have very perceptive and compassionate partners.
There are perks, but it's not necessarily for the faint of heart.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
