Help please

[Maybell]

I'm not sure how to start.

In July 2013 I learned my husband had been having a long-distance affair with a 26 yo woman from his company. He works for an international organization and she is in another country. She has a daughter with some other guy (story gets a little confused here) that she told my H was over, but the guy either objects to it being over or it isn't really. Don't know and don't care. But my H and OW met at a company event while I was organizing a cross-country move for our 3 children & me to join him at the new state; affair started there (Jan. 2013). Became an electronic affair till they met again May 2013 when he was overseas. Apparently she started withdrawing because around this time he became very surly, avoiding the family, etc. He was chasing her and she was responding sporadically. July 2013 everything came to a head, the baby daddy told them that he knew everything and was going to contact me with all the information he had. My husband rushed to confess that night ahead of it. The next morning I found what the OW's guy had sent me -- screenshots of my husband being extremely explicit in texts with OW. It took a few days and he seemed reluctant, but he did send her a NC letter, and frankly I was relieved that all this was in the open, because in his confession he had suggested marriage counseling and I felt like all the staleness and distance of the last several years would finally start to be resolved.

All seemed well for a couple of weeks. We really connected again, asking questions and sharing our insights on things that went back to the first years of our marriage. I was happy and he seemed really happy too. Of course there was still pain and questions about the affair but we were connecting and that was a really good start.

After about 2-3 weeks he withdrew dramatically. It took a couple of days and then he said "but what if in ten years we find out we really aren't happy together and we should have split up now?" This was horrible to hear of course, but I stepped away from him and struggled to figure out how to respond supportively, even though it seemed like a foolish question to ask if we were both working on the marriage.

Turns out that was a lead-in to his next trip, when he saw her again and slept with her again and lied about it to me. The OW's guy tipped me off. Horrible response (I told him via text not to come home, then hours later said he could, because I worried about our children's reaction to losing their dad in that sudden way). Did not forgive so quickly this time, but we had a counseling appointment already in place so waited to see what that would bring.

Long story short, four months of counseling was a BIG waste of time, the counselor was not helpful at all. By January 2013 he was saying again ILYBNILWY a LOT, said he wasn't sure if "this was what he wanted" and that he felt like he needed space away from us. We fired the old counselor and found a new, much better one. Even so, things have deteriorated steadily till April 2014 when he finally said that his heart isn't in making this work and he kinda-sorta moved out (due to his very hectic travel schedule he's been camping at a local motel between trips rather than actually moved out; so the kids think he's traveling rather than moved out at the moment).

Two days ago I found out he had been spending our separation in contact with the OW, rather than working on the M as promised. He lied to the counselor when he said he didn't still have his mind on her. When I asked him why he was contacting her he said "There's a lot of history there" -- as opposed to the 18 years of history he shares with me, but that's just a vent. OW's guy isn't sure she actually came up to his room, but my H's texts to her said "say yes say yes say yes" and "I'll wait up in my room so you can make it up to me". H insists they only were together in the bar with other co-workers and never spent time together alone. I don't really care; I'm more angry about him being in contact and insisting he feels nothing for me and that OW is irrelevant to this lack of caring.

I'm in IC with the same counselor who does our MC; when I told him about all this yesterday he said that he had come to our appointment ready to tell me to give up on my H and prepare for D based on what my H has been saying in counseling the last few weeks. He said I ought to call a lawyer, which I've done.

I have read about half of DR. I don't want a divorce but I'm not sure I can get my H to want to come back to me. Our M was fairly disappointing the last several years but used to be really great and I want to make it that way again. I know a lot of what I've contributed to the failure of the relationship and am willing to turn it around, though I know it will take a long time to make that happen. I've also reacted really badly to all this over the last seven months or so -- basically been the anti-divorce buster. I'm trying to turn that around, in part by going dim till I can GAL and get my emotions under control.

My H says he isn't ready to talk about divorce, but that his heart isn't in making all this work. I don't know how much his interest in OW plays into that -- she doesn't sound like she's been all that receptive lately. We'll be telling the kids we're at least separating next week, and then he'll be leaving for a 3-week trip overseas, and the day after he gets back I'm taking the kids on our annual vacation with my family.

I'm sorry this is so long. I feel isolated -- only lived in this state for a little over a year, and I'm not accustomed to needing people, only to being needed. Somebody please, weigh in. I don't want a divorce; I don't know if it's possible to avoid one.

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
So post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power

[Maybell]

Since I found out he'd been in contact with the OW during our separation I have declined to speak to him. The evening of the day I found out he asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said no. I had an IC appt for the next morning and wanted to talk to our counselor before I would consider talking to him. Then counselor recommended as above.

Four times before I called the attorney I asked my husband if there was any reason I shouldn't. I asked four times because the first three times he responded as though I had asked a different question; the fourth time I said that his responses told me that he wanted a divorce and that I would go ahead and start that process.

So after I called the attorney I sent my husband a very matter-of-fact email saying when my appointment was, that I didn't want to talk to him, and stating some boundaries about living arrangements and the kids. I reiterated that we couldn't make a productive effort of reconciling if he was still wrapped up in the OW and said that I was done tolerating that. Then I went dark. He called the kids that evening (11, 8, 6) and asked to speak to me at the end. I asked him if he wanted to talk to me and he said he felt like he ought to touch base with me but really didn't have anything to say. So I ended the conversation. He has apologized several times, though he's been apologizing continuously since July and I don't feel convinced he really is apologizing for the affair ("inappropriate relationship" in his words).

Yesterday I texted him that I didn't want to talk to him but if he wanted to talk then I would listen. I did that because I've been throwing so many words at him over the last several months and saying I was ready to listen (which I truly am) is a 180 for me. He answered promptly to let me know he wasn't ignoring me but that he couldn't chat right then. Later he texted me that he didn't know what to say. I said we should leave it at that for now. He apologized again and I said "I hear you," he thanked me and said that was the best he could hope for. I said "I do want to hear you." He acknowledged he'd done a lot of things to hurt me and that my wanting to hear him was more than he had a right to expect. I told him I was going to end the conversation there because we weren't going to be productive at that moment, but repeated that I wanted to hear him and that if he wanted to talk I would listen. He thanked me and that was the end of that.

I read more of DR last night and I feel like it's sinking in in layers. Like I think I get it but I only get it to a point and then I have to reread and absorb a little more in order to really get it into my outlook on life. I have one good friend here who has been hearing the whole story since October and she's been tremendously helpful and supportive. She told me about a month ago that I needed to get back in touch with my sense of self-worth, so that's what I've been mostly working on in IC. I'm starting to believe that whether or not my M survives (or should I say, revives? reincarnated?) that I do have a right to be cherished and happy and that my actions should reflect that. This also is a 180 for me, though it doesn't directly apply to my interactions with my husband.

It's amazing how much it helps to get this all out there to people who are living through this pain to, even though I haven't had any responses yet. I'm terribly worried that this divorce will actually happen, but not because I'm afraid to live AFTER it; mostly because I so don't want to live THROUGH it, worried about each of my kids, worried about the friendships that won't survive, the pain we will be causing our families and friends, and the loss of someone who has been my best and longest-standing friend.

Thanks so much for listening.

[Thornton]

Hi Maybell,

I'm sorry you are going through this. You will find a lot of helpful advice here.

You may want to reach out to Sandi2. She is very helpful in instances such as these.

Keep reading, researching, and most of all, don't lose hope.

[JennD]

Hi Maybell. Journalling really helped me - got the emotions out and slowed the circling and repeative thoughts down.

I too feel isolated and find this board very helpful.

Read some of the other threads on the board - it helps.

I've read of lot of books lately - most to do with self help/marraige/emotions, etc but also so biographies and funny books - just to give my mind a break...

Sorry that your find yourself here...I know it $ucks!

[Maybell]

This morning is Saturday. I found out the renewed contact in OW on Tuesday. I have only spoken maybe ten words to my husband since Monday, when we had our most recent marriage counseling session. And just a few short texts and my email announcing my attorney appointment since then.

After the counselor found out my husband has been in contact with OW and lied about it in their individual session, he said he won't see my husband individually anymore and doesn't want to bother with joint sessions till my H makes a BIG gesture that indicates that he's taking the marriage seriously.

I don't know what such a gesture would look like and it's probably too soon to even wonder. Reading another thread, sandi2 said that he has to go through withdrawal from OW (I'm assuming what goes for WAW goes for H too?) before he can be ready to tackle marriage. What does that look like? He won't be NC for as long as they both work at the same company and they both have excellent reasons for not leaving.

When I write these things about my H it makes it sound like he's a using, abusing, cheating, lying man, but I'm totally floored by this behavior. He has always been incredibly responsible and resourceful. I would have sworn I was his one and only. Counselor has a theory he's ADD (with cause, and my H agrees) and though understanding that might be helpful to other areas of our marriage, it doesn't explain the complete implosion of our home life.

But I think I'm thinking too much about all this. I'm trying out a new mantra: Today is the day he won't come back. And I'm going to try the thought-stopping practices recommended on the infidelity forum so I don't continue thinking about him. It's not easy. I'm a SAHM who has made his entire life possible -- caring for all of it while he just went back and forth to work and social engagements.

And the kids are wilting and I don't know what to do about it. A great deal of his absence is legitimate travel and he will be gone the entire month of June. I can't change that at all.

I can't even tell if I'm following DB or not. I'm at sea.

Why is this my life now?

[BklynMom]

My 2 cents.

You need to focus all your energy on yourself and your kids.

You need to make life as easy for you as financially possible.

Make the time to exercise and go get your nails done. Make the time for continued IC. Maybe a massage. Or a housekeeper.

If your H wants a D he should do all the leg work not you - get yourself a good lawyer.

I would encourage your H to get an IC separate from yours but he should be seeing someone.

You are a mom so I know you can thrive through this because of your kids. Your kids will be so proud of you. They know in their heart all you do for their family.

[Maybell]

Thank you all so much for the support here.

Just got off the phone with him. Had had a fit during the first try and hung up on him. Texted him after I calmed down that I wanted to try again and hear him better. Heard about his week, told him about mine; very tentatively we talked about our issues. Both of us choosing our words very carefully. He made a point of telling me that my friendship was really really important to him, and that he was aware that he had hurt me so much that it was hard for him to be even around me at all, couldn't even take friendship with me when he was hurting me so much.

Tried to claim OW is "a friend" but when pressed admitted that "it's complicated."

Agreed to put relationship efforts on back burner for now until the friendship was on a better footing.

I know I'm not supposed to believe anything he says, but I also know that (other than OW, who barely knows him) that he doesn't have hardly any really close friendships than mine. So valuing the friendship is a big deal, right? Or I should just quit finding strings to hang on to. (Which I know I should; even if we do somehow recover it will take a VERY LONG TIME.)

BklynMom, thanks for your words -- part of our conversation was that I need to be able to spend some money to get the kids enrolled in camps this summer because I need to not have them climbing the walls while I try to get myself reset (also I'm looking for a job, because it looks like the guy I trusted to always be there for me won't). At least he told me that I needed to not worry about camp expense.

I'm not looking forward to June. This is not the life I imagined for myself or for my kids.

[Georgiabelle]

Maybell,

Brooklyn Mom has given you some great advice. I'm sorry you are hear. I know you are in a difficult place and you should focus on you and your children.

One thing I differ on.....IC is only beneficial if a) someone is honest and b) thru are willing to do the work. Those 2 criteria alone are giant obstacles for most. Should your h seek IC? Probably. However, if he isn't honest or committed to addressing his issues, you may as well flush $$$$ down the toilet.

Take care of yourself and let your h deal with his stuff.

[Maybell]

I'm still in moderation so if I'm repeating myself I'm sorry. Can't see what I posted most recently.

Had a long conversation with my H yesterday evening, trying just to connect without talking about relationship, separation, OW, or divorce. His end was talking a little bit about his travel and it was honestly so good to hear from him casually, that he was doing (even though it's for work) things that he used to enjoy that he hadn't done in years (golf, mainly, also poker with other guys, that sort of thing), and I felt bad that on my end what I was mostly telling him was how hard it had been with the kids. It was what I felt in the moment but we have been talking about strengthening our friendship and the kids are a tremendous worry to me right now. A lot of the joy has gone out of our house -- during car rides we don't sing together anymore, on our walks home from school they aren't as quick to notice the beautiful nature we enjoy in our town, they don't get excited about participating in family game night with me by myself.

A lot of this is on me, and I'm really trying to pull myself together and give them more of that cheerful energy. I'm not sure where to get it from, though. We're going to tell them about the separation this weekend and having that in front of me makes it almost impossible to find light-heartedness. Also kind of cruel, like it would make the blow seem even harder because they will fall so much farther. I've been trying to give them lots more hugs and cuddles, reassurances, encouragement, and attention to make up for the decreased happiness level in our house. I feel terrible for them, and guilty for failing to provide them with the sort of home I so badly wanted for them.

And I wish I had told my husband more about the good things about the week, how I had started getting back into my running & yoga, about the fun evening I had with my friend after the kids went to bed Saturday night, about going back to church. But I'm so worried about the kids... and part of me feels like he has made light of how this is going to impact them because he doesn't live it, and I need for him to understand how much they're going to need from him once he's back from all his trips. (In his letter asking for separation he said "the kids will be hurt but they'll be fine" -- like it was OK to hurt them now because they will eventually grow up.)

This morning I took a long walk, trying to figure out what I'm going to do with myself this week. Somehow, I don't have anything at all on the schedule except my IC appointment (I can add lunches & coffee with friends, yoga, runs, but at the moment my calendar is empty -- VERY weird, it almost never is). So I decided I'm going to clean and purge the house. It's something I have been wanting to do for a while, so it feeds me, and also I will have to do it if we end up having to sell the house, which would be one of the consequences of our failing to come back together. And I started going through the house in my head and thinking about things to get rid of and two of the things that I never use are a really nice, expensive mandolin for the kitchen, and also a VERY nice, expensive cookbook that my husband bought me several years ago. Both of these items are really complicated (the mandolin came with a DVD explaining how to use it), and both were given to my when my 3rd child was less than 2 years old (he's now 6). So I wasn't able to take the time to mess with them at the time he gave them to me and then they fell off my radar during multiple moves. Everything was always rushed. My H complained, once, a few months after he bought it, about me not making anything from the cookbook; this is VERY unusual for him, as he doesn't really talk about his feelings ever. And looking back, I realize that he probably feels like I didn't appreciate his thoughtfulness on those items, and perhaps felt disconnected because cooking was one of the things that we really enjoyed doing together when we were dating and newly married. Somehow it became a chore and a source of contention.

So I got to thinking about those items, and the ways in which we have disconnected over the last few years, and why, and what my responsibility was that I failed to meet, and it was humbling and upsetting. I kind of had almost a panic attack /breakdown right there on the sidewalk, but I breathed through it and thought through it, and though I'm still upset I feel like I've had a revelation. I can see some of the ways I've failed him and I need to change those things for myself, because I will take them to any new relationship if we fail to come back together. I realize I'm not a preferable, desirable, or even viable option as a partner for him at this time because of the ways in which I've failed to support him -- like, I tried to support him in ways that didn't matter to him, and failed to understand how to support him in ways that would, and he talks so little about his feelings and is in many ways so passive that I never understood how we were missing each other.

I don't know if I can make this right with him. I hope I can. I don't want us to divorce. He is my best and longest-standing and closest friend and even though we aren't connecting now it feels to me like he wants to nurture the friendship as much as I do. But he doesn't trust me with his heart, and I think I can see why. The OW doesn't even really factor into my thinking, because I feel like I wouldn't want me either, the way I've been. Is it a mistake for me to dismiss her like that? I mean, she's a deal-breaker as far as the relationship is concerned, of course, but at this point there is no relationship to speak of. Only a friendship I'd like to save, as potential precursor to building a new, sturdier (more thrilling) marriage.

Of course he has responsibilities and failings too, but I can't do anything about them. He certainly isn't motivated to. His relationship with OW has absolutely no future, even as a friendship, owing to the circumstances around it. So he can enjoy that fantasy for now. Is this a good attitude? It certainly goes against what my counselor, friend, and mother think, but I feel like it's letting go of a thing I can't change in order to invest myself in the things I can.

But then also the more I was thinking, the more I realized -- there are certain ways in which he has always failed to meet my needs, and that will never change, because of the kind of person he is. It just is, and a lot of what I love about him is the flip side of the reason why I know that he just will not meet my needs in those ways. I have a friend who, with a lot of counseling, has come to realize that her husband won't meet some very important needs of hers, and she has come to be OK with that. I didn't realize before today how resentful I was about things that I thought I had accepted. That resentment has certainly fueled a lot of the ways I damaged our relationship and I didn't even acknowledge it. Can I detach from having those needs met?

So now I'm thinking: If we split up, I have the chance to make a new relationship with someone who will meet these very important needs. (there's no OM waiting in the wings; I'm only talking about open-ended possibility here) But the cost would be VERY high. And I need to think about whether or not that is worth it. Right now, it's not. Will that change?

I'm sorry this is so long, and I hope it wasn't terribly repetitive. A lot of this is journaling for myself, too.