Reach out or stay dark?

[Pluto]

Thanks db.

We're all doing the best we can. I've had my own backslides. They happen. The key is that we recognize them as such, and do our best to not to repeat them.

You're much farther along than I - seems like you're exhibiting lots of patience, even if it doesn't always feel like it.

Have you read either of DB or DR? You may want to re-read the LRT section again.. heck, I probably should as well... along with sandi's 37 rules.

[Anders]

I have read DR and planning to read it again. A real gem and a life saver. Good advice about reading the LRT section again.

My mistake last year was being very anxious to find quick solutions and not being patient in sticking with the DB guidelines. I have been learning the hard way about the extent of my lack of patience, with our most recent argument being a prime example.

Planning to stick with DB and this forum instead of bouncing all over the web looking for cookie cutter solutions.

Do you have a good support network offline?

I have found this very helpful for myself, having a very small circle of people whom I trust and who are supportive of our marriage. Before this, I tended to keep our situation hidden while trying to maintain a PMA with my wife. Emotionally, this was not sustainable.

Their advice has been very similar to that on this forum.

A word of advice though: make sure it is people you really can trust and who are really supportive of your marriage.

[Anders]

Reading through the Going Dark 101 forum, I am sensing that I should begin to slowly start some light contact by phone.

Any advice on this?

[Anders]

Journal update: I got home yesterday to find a message from my MIL saying she is looking forward to catching up with me. I will call her tomorrow and be truthful about the fact that W and I have not communicated in nearly two months.

I caved though. Seeing MIL's message sounded like a reasonable point to connect with W. I sent her an email asking to talk about MIL's message and also made clear that a D is not what I want. No reply. It has been not been easy trying to resist the habit of mind reading about why she has not replied.

A very long day at work today and I am tired. Very tired. It may be fatigue but I find myself wondering if DBing is possible from a long distance and with no communication. It is tough when you don't have a gauge on whether any progress is being made or not.

I have to make a major career decision tomorrow. I'm frustrated that I cannot talk to her about it.

The strange thing is that despite my slump today, I got a couple of flirtatious smiles walking down the street today. And a couple more while in a coffee shop.

Trying to force myself to remember that this process is very much about growing and changing myself for the better. And it is not just about my timeline. And that writing things down helps clear and calm my mind.

But during moments like these, I am just tired.

[sandi2]

The depression causes one to feel very tired, also. I know it is difficult for you and the distance seems to be a large stumbling block. Is there another program or a different approach you believe would work better than DB?

As for the career move, I think you have to make the decision based on what is good for you. Your W removed herself, therefore you need to move forward as if she was no longer a part of it. It sounds cold, even writing those words. I know you are grieving and I wish I could give you the hope you want.

I think you should tell your MIL what's going on. Not with any purpose in mind other than informing her. I feel she has a right to know. I would want to know if it were my daughter and SIL.

I hope you continue to post to us. You need support, and if you post often, you will get more responses.

((hugs))

[Anders]

Thanks sandi2. The one thing I have not done yet is to call W. Thinking of doing so before I call MIL.

I thought initiating contact via text and email would be a lighter approach before calling. However, these in the recent past led to miscommunication about was implied or not.

[Anders]

Interesting development: I called W this morning, got her voice mail but didn't leave a message. She texted a short while later saying she could talk later tonight if I was up for it.

My call with MIL is a couple of hours before that.

[Anders]

So, W and I talked by phone this morning. She sounded very upbeat and is set on moving on from our marriage. She asked me to clarify what I meant in the email I sent her earlier this week (taking back what I said during our argument about divorce). I made it clear that I did not want a divorce. She said it was too late. We had a great first few years but the last few have been too much that she doesn't see how we could recover nor does she want to.

Several times she mentioned that 'we owe it to ourselves to see what a relationship with other people may be like' (we were the fir best serious relationship for each other). She is really keen on this and this has come up a few times in the past year. She mentioned how some of her colleagues had open relationships and wondered if that would have saved us during our separation. This was not and is not for me.

I had suspected OM for a while but only proof I had was of two EAs and not sure how far those went. I sense that she really has moved on since our argument and is possibly already dating other people if she was not already.

I may have made a mistake in asking her if she could not see anyone until our D is finalized. She said no to that.

Overall, I listened more than I spoke which is something that plagued our relationship. She told me of her short term life plans moving forward and was very upbeat about it all. There is a real possibility that we may not see each other again in person as she has no intention of coming here again.

She said she understood why people pursue WAS (referring to our last argument when I showed up to talk it out with her and confronted her about the EA) but it is too late.

I knew to expect this as a possible outcome but I am in a state of shock right now. I managed to hold myself together during the call that we had a cordial enough conversation and wished her the best with her work celebration.

From above, it almost sounds like she is aware of DBing but I am in danger of mind reading here. What she made very clear is that she has given up on us, is moving on and is very keen on seeing other people.

I talked to MIL yesterday and told her that W and I had not spoken in two months. She was gracious enough not to probe but hoped we would work it out in time for me to join then during the celebrations next week.

W was annoyed I had told her mom as she was planning on telling her parents in person, that we were done, when she sees them later today.

We agreed to have a follow up call in a few days to discuss logistics (house, finances, D proceedings, etc) moving forward.

If not for the content of what was discussed, we had a relatively positive talk and she even wished me a good day.

It is a small point but there is something painful about hearing your W refer to you by first name after so many years of loving let names.

Trying very hard not to panic and be reactive here. At this point, I am contemplating asking her if as a last resort, we could try the retrouvaille program before beginning D proceedings. At the very least it may give a sense of peace and closure to many of the issues we have avoided and have plagued our marriage. But honestly, I am finding it hard to believe that this is really it and don't want to give up yet.

My day is shot. I had plans for work but definitely not in that headspace. Planning to head out to the a rare to enjoy the sun, catch a movie and then spend time going through this forum focusing on words of wisdom from similar situations.

[Anders]

I needed to remind myself of Sandi's rules:


Quote:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes

[Anders]

Help. I feel like I am loosing it today. Part of me feels like I am on a lost cause after talk with W yesterday (yesterday's post) while another is saying the 'believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do; stay on the DB course' mantra.

Outside perspectives and advice would be really great as I feel like I can't see the forest for the trees right now.