"Gabby... no... the whole pearlharbr story is strategy. Its very interesting. But very strategic and manipulating."
OMG you totally missed the point of her thread. She did what worked and then when she started to grow, she started to outgrow her BF and then told him she didn't need him any more. It wasn't a ploy or a strategy, she was done. She got her self respect back and didnt' keep seeing everything her BF did.
Starsky, myself and others were the ones who helped her so I should know what I'm talking about. You've got it wrong. Plus you probably didn't read all of the things she posted on other people's threads that detailed her growth as well.
You're just reading the words without understanding what was really going on. Without really trying to understand.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
also... Gabby... the whole pearl story is sooooo different and firm from the various advice I have received over time.....its time to change up my direction. See if that works. (advice given in db).
The advice given from Bond (listen, light touch, accept coffee/connection, watch baby steps, etc) is totally different than what Pearl was given.
The advice given from Job... get finances in order. <<<< still working on this.
The advice given to Pearlharbr is very different than Bond...its strict... hardly any waffling. Toss him to the curb effect. Treat him like I am the WAS, use those tactics. ALL Strategy. Step by step strategy... and it worked.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
Bond... I haven't missed it..... I see the growth...
in listening to her tho...initially she was lost & without any direction. I have not missed anything... Im still at the beginning of her story.
Her words :
"I admit that I do want him to realize the error of his ways. But it's not a pure motive, it's more a desire for vindication at this point."
I too am here (see below):
She did what worked and then when she started to grow, she started to outgrow her BF and then told him she didn't need him any more.
I am wanting to do what works, and along the way grow more. Accept who I am... And be respected..... if that drives me to a place where I am strong and confident without him... so be it.
Like I said... Im still reading & not even half way yet.....
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
"The advice given to Pearlharbr is very different than Bond...its strict... hardly any waffling. Toss him to the curb effect. Treat him like I am the WAS, use those tactics. ALL Strategy. Step by step strategy... and it worked."
You're NOT getting it! When I mentioned that stuff about touch, etc. with your XBF, it was to start some kind of positive interaction with him. This was at a time when there was none. Now that there is, you have to change the way you interact with him. That shows how little you've grown. You're still seeing things like a ploy or strategy. You have to learn how to adapt on your own based on what's going on. None of the advice you get on here is absolute.
With pearlharbor, her BF wasn't showing her any consistent positive interaction, so she moved on. PLUS she didnt' work with her BF like you do.
I really don't like it when I'm misquoted or misunderstood that way. I'm telling you that you are still misunderstanding what everyone is telling you but you keep arguing.
The point is that pearl did it right.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
When you suggested touch, it worked... how am I not getting it? There has been positive interaction from him for a long time...., you just said for me to change the way I interact with him.... so, I am. How is this not following and why are you belittling my growth?
I am not looking at this like a strategy or a ploy to GET HIM BACK...when will you accept this? This is frustrating to have to keep proving that it is not my style.
What I am doing...is saving my self value/respect...that I am just getting back!!!
All I am saying is that in Pearlharbr's threads ... a strategy is laid out... A clear, step by step strategy... That worked for HER... I like the direction of the strategy, as it helped move her along in her self value. That does NOT suggest that I would do it as a strategy to get him back.... Read what I said... its for my sanity!!!
With pearl, it was still the very early stages and she had not been receiving any positive interaction. She was guided by a very talented strategist, who knew how she could get results... fast. THEY were strategizing... Why is it ok for them to use tactics?
What do you suggest I do here now Bond? Do you like the Pearlharbr approach suggested? or do you believe I should still be "listening, validating, light touch, accepting offers"?
You seem to think that I am misunderstanding something... can you be specific?
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
rereading the beginnings of Pearlharbr... again...
Yes, I may need a coach and firm direction..(step by step even), yes... hand holding... is Gucci even around? Bond says he was involved... were you involved too Starsky?
Sure, Pearls approach initially was to get positive reaction... BUT!! Her strength and listening skills in the beginning to specific direction is what got her end results. I want that... Sure, she got her relationship back... but more importantly she got her self-respect back...in a big WAY. <<< I want THAT!!
If I get the guy in the end...bonus. If I get my self-respect and sanity back... HOORAY/ back hand springs & cartwheels !!!!
I believe db even recommends the LRT.... I guess I am there now, because I am willing to risk the outcome. My xbf has always wanted to remain friends, therefore I know I can always have his friendship if I want to. What I have to convince him (or better myself) of somehow, someway is that I'm not losing him - he's losing me - he's losing my love, my respect, and my friendship. (as quoted elsewhere).
I think I'm getting tired of waiting for him to "decide" about me/our relationship. Its almost degrading enabling him to "decide". My turn?
~~~~~~ drawing my line in the sand.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
"I am not looking at this like a strategy or a ploy to GET HIM BACK...when will you accept this?"
When you do.
"This is frustrating to have to keep proving that it is not my style."
You're the one who constantly feels like you have to "prove" yourself to others. To your XBF, the posters here, etc. You're still looking for validation from others.
"What I am doing...is saving my self value/respect...that I am just getting back!!!"
I see it as more like you're just getting tired of the situation. That's not the same as getting yourself back.
"All I am saying is that in Pearlharbr's threads ... a strategy is laid out... A clear, step by step strategy... That worked for HER... I like the direction of the strategy, as it helped move her along in her self value."
Boy are you wrong. She tried things and if they didn't work, she stopped doing it. That's not a strategy. In the end, she decided to give up when she had her self-esteem back and he came back to her. It wasn't a strategy. It's how her situation evolved on its own.
"I believe db even recommends the LRT."
You don't even understand what the LRT means. It means that you agree to the separation, which you've already done many times, and leave him alone and concentrate on your own life. You can't do that. You write about how close he sits to you, what he does, how he uses the bathroom, what he gets to buy, how many phone calls he makes, etc.
So in the end, you have'nt learned.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Gabby ~ what do you feel that I am arguing about? If you don't want to hold my hand...thats ok. If the approach isn't a good fit for me, why did Starsky suggest it?
Bond... you insist that I am misunderstanding something, but fail to put into words that can actually help me. Telling me this over and over and over again does not.
I understand that you "see" it that way Bond, and its partly true.... but I also NEED this for my sanity. One needs to fake it till they make it... don't they?
Lets say I admit: I am prepared to use the strategy and tactics of Pearlharbr situation, because it HELPED HER to move forward....... whats the big deal in me being like her? ITs a beginning... a desire to WANT to move forward? Who cares what the motivation is...its the beginning. Hopefully it will move me to a better place...like it did her!
Please stop telling me that I am wrong... I am not wrong... it is blatant and even worded that her thread was PURE strategy and tactical. I am only the messenger! In the BEGINNING, she had motives and strategy was laid out for her step by step and with each interaction she had with him....in the END, her self-esteem was built and supported/directed mainly by Gucci and Puppy. Its strategy when even THEY call it that. Its strategy, when they use tactics from a WAS and apply it. Her situation changed after she followed instructions, then as she grew stronger...it evolved on its own.
I'd ask that you refrain from your constant knock me down position and instead offer a suggestion, a true piece of clear and direct suggestion. I asked you what you feel that I misunderstood, and you can't even tell me.
I understand what LRT is. I have been posting significant changes in him/his behaviour over the past year. He has come a long way.... however, still not close enough yet. That is for my reference and to show his behaviours.
I am tired...YES... but I also realize that if I don't stand up here, I will continue to get more of his "I dunno" position while he admits to possible cake eating and in the process continue to accept his bait that keeps me "there" and on the hook for HIS comfort....not mine. So, its not really up for debate.... I must change direction.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
In re-reading Pearl's old threads just now, I am struck by two things that are highly different from your current situation:
1. How coach-able she was; and
2. How she laid out her boundaries ("This is what I need in a relationship; whether or not that can be YOU is entirely up to you") and then let HIM pursue, rarely (never?) waffling from that position.
I take what limited time I have to help people here and I apply it where it seems to be the most useful. You seem to like to argue with people, you drive them away, and you continue to do the same things over and over again with your BF, with very limited results.
Gabby ~ what do you feel that I am arguing about? If you don't want to hold my hand...thats ok. If the approach isn't a good fit for me, why did Starsky suggest it?
I suggested it because I thought it might help you, MM, to take your and your boyfriend's "name" off of this and circle above another couple more dispassionately, and see their dynamics.
You are WAY too caught up on what Pearl said her original motivations were, and how much "hand-holding" she got (and personally, I see a TON of in-her-face CHALLENGES on those threads from me (as Puppy), Gucci and others!). I SPECIFICALLY suggested her threads as a way for you to learn how to do the impersonal boundary thing -- instead of ultimatums that are littered with "I" and "me" ("This is what *I* need you to do!"), you do "This is what I need from a LTR -- _________, ___________ and ____________. I think it's unfair of me not to let you know that. Whether or not YOU are up for that is entirely up to you, and frankly I don't think you have it in you and that's okay, but I have decided that this is what I need."
And then she let HIM pursue.
Try to focus on THAT part of her sitch -- cuz it worked . . . like a charm.
