Help!!!!

[Beersha]

Update:
So yesterday was the first day/night with him home. He came home at 0730, all the children got up and had breakfast with him. I left them to it, and enjoyed my first lie in in months!! Then he came to my room and asked to borrow my phone charger, I gave it to him and asked how his night at work was. It was all very polite, borderline friendly even.
I went out with children running errands for most if the day, and when we got home my D4 threw a monster tantrum, and woke H up. I was actually really glad the kids and I had to run out almost straight away to a play date. It was really awkward. We are both moving around our home and interacting with the children like normal, but barely speaking to each other.
When we returned from the play date he was here, and I basically dropped the kids in, and ran out to church. I never get to go without the kids and actually concentrate and pray. He seemed ok with it, and even fed them their dinner.
He left for work not long after I got in, but it didn't seem as awkward.

And then this morning he came home, and was almost friendly again. He came in and said a cheery good morning (in the past i was lucky to be acknowledged at all), and has even volunteered his plans for this evening - he is going out to dinner with his friends apparently.

I'm just not sure what to make of it. It is all such strange behaviour. I'm scared I'm getting too hopeful now he is home, and there are some small positives, that I am just setting myself up for a fall.

[Beersha]

I think I am so desperately wanting to see positives that I am inventing them.
Last week I, after my IC session I thought I was doing well.
This is happening, I don't know or understand why and may never. This is not all down to my issues or something I have/haven't done.
I wS even coming to terms with the lies and dishonesty - I had stopped thinking who is he with/what is he doing/where is he? Why is he lying?
I was even able to admit to a friend, the reason I am coping with the kids alone so well, is that I was doing it all myself before he left anyway.

I was able to say 'I don't get any of this. But I'm ok. I will rock being a single mum. My kids will be ok, they are awesome.'

I still had done fears and sad times, but I was doing good. And now I feel like he is here, and I'm going backwards, analysing everything for a meaning, is that a good sign or bad sign?

I'm going to drive myself crazy!! I am trying so hard to 'act as if', but I wonder dies he just see through it! I haven't been able to really GAL this weekend, I've had a quiet one in with my kids, they actually asked to stay home today!

[Beersha]

So I have question.

I am almost positive my H is seeing someone else. He has not admitted this, and I have no 'proof'. Last night he told me he was going to dinner at a work colleagues house. He left his work uniform here and said he would stop to pick it up before he started. He came in just 10min before his shift started, in a completely different outfit, looking freshly showered. I know I should have let it go , but I asked why he was so late. He sort of stumbled and didn't really answer, and I just said you need to start telling the truth. He stomped off to work.

I know I should have just bitten my tongue, but he has just come back to stay in our home (in the spare room). Is it unreasonable for me to say that he cannot go for booty calls, and then come back to our family home? It feels so insulting now that he obviously thinks I am that stupid. The friend he was apparently visiting for dinner, didn't even live remotely near the friend he has been telling he was staying with, so how did he pick up a whole new outfit?


Does he have that little regard for me, that he cannot even be honest. He has been away for 3 months, staying with OW I presume. So why come back now, especially if he is just going to go to her whenever he can? He obviously isn't home to see the kids, he hasn't seen them, he's never here!!

[Georgiabelle]

Beersha,

I'm just catching up and I'm sorry you find yourself here. To answer your question, yes he thinking of himself and appears to have kitty's regard for your feelings. You've been doing a great job so far all with young kids.

I know it's difficult - detach. Don't think about what your h is doing. You can't control him. Focus on your well being and your kids. Be kind to yourself.

[Beersha]

Sorry all. My head is not in a good place today.

All the thoughts are running riot in my head.
All the coulda/woulda/shoulda and what ifs.


Spoke to an IC just before and she said H is being unfair, immature and just mean in what he is doing and not talking. But that doesn't really help me with the thoughts.

I will get back to the gym tomorrow, try and get GALing again. Fake it till I make it.

[Beersha]

Grrrr! Just gotta vent now. No gym for me today. Was up most of the night with D4 complaining of a sore ear. She is asleep now of course, so I'll see how she is when she wakes before I take her to the doctor.

And H worked night shift last night and took the family car. He finishes at 0700 and is normally home by 0800. It is now 0915 and no sign of him. So if he has disappeared with the car (which he has done in the past) I can't take D5 to school, (which she is already late for) or D4 to the doctor or do any if he other errands I had planned for today.

And silly me had thought things were at the very least amicable when he left for work last night. He had even sat and watched tv with me in the living room.

[Beersha]

I know I haven't been in this long. But i really, really think I am close to letting go. He is so unnecessarily nasty and cruel. So cold and mean. I've read other threads on here and other WAS, while not always nice, at least are prepared to engage in some dialogue, talk about how things are going to work. My H has just walked. Said nothing. Not about the kids, or how he wants to do this. He has made comments about mediation or selling the house but that's it. Nothing further. He has just left and started a new life without us and we obviously don't even enter the equation anymore.

I've texted him this morning, telling him about D4, and tried to phone him. He won't reply or answer. I need the car back to take care of our children, and he won't even answer the phone. She is his daughter!!

I just feel increasingly like I have to drop the rope, just completely walk away from him. He is just being so incredibly selfish and immature. If he wants to end our marriage, there are better ways to do it than this. Why can't he just grow a pair and face the horrible parts of it? He says this is what he wants, so just man up and get it done. At least then I can start getting on with my life properly and taking care of the children, I can move on to someone who will at the very least respect me and be nice to me.

[25yearsmlc]

Sorry all. My head is not in a good place today.

All the thoughts are running riot in my head.
All the coulda/woulda/shoulda and what ifs.


Spoke to an IC just before and she said H is being unfair, immature and just mean in what he is doing and not talking. But that doesn't really help me with the thoughts.

This is why I did NOT find most MC's helpful. I know that validation of our perception can let us know we're not going insane, but the thing is, I KNEW my h was being selfish and acting like a single man!....But, what do I DO with that?
IT's why I prefer solution based counseling...

I will get back to the gym tomorrow, try and get GALing again. Fake it till I make it.

Okay first, Please watch Amy Cuddy's TED Talk about that^^ very thing. The "Fake it til you BECOME it" and also Shawn Achor's "Positive Psychology" TED Video as well. Both are on Youtube.

Both will help you. Each is maybe 20 min long and they are pretty profound.

Try to see his presence in the home, as a chance to give him something to miss. Such as

Good times, loving interactions with the kids and him, OR you and the kids, and be upbeat around him. NO PROBING questions except as it relates to Your schedule. Play some FUN games with the kids, have "kid night" so that they can pick the dinner, and watch a video on a blanket in the TV room as a "picnic" and just enjoy them. It's appealing and touching and it helps THEM feel special, which they need now.

Make sure you do go out, but make sure to THANK HIM for his helping. I know it seems unfair and it IS -- but now, at present, this is about solving some problems and NOT about making it all fair.

My DB coach said to "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives" he does, and it does help.

Be a bit mysterious but upbeat and content, when you go out. DO GO OUT..."With some friends' etc. As for possible OWs, instead of obsessing about that, try to be the better choice.

Be a woman only a fool would leave.

Try turning your marriage over to God. Turn your pain and anger and marriage, over to HIM...I said it out loud in the shower (so the kids wouldn't think I was nuts) and I would say it about 25-50 times.

Thinking it, saying it out loud, hearing myself say it, ALL helped it sink in. Made the conversations a lot calmer on my end.

Meanwhile, Here are the DB rules that Sandi assembled. Not all apply, but most do.

(I copied these onto one sheet and laminated it, and carried it around with me, along with a few mantras that helped soothe me.)


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life, with or without them, and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – Get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce. Be brief with your words, but don't sound rude or too short, as if you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.


17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.

39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this now, and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is very freeing.

[Beersha]

Thanks 25.
I really feel bad today, like just giving up.
I totally messed up yesterday, I completely lost it at him. I was politely trying to ask him about the car the day before. I needed it for one of our children, and he just ignored me. He sat there and just straight up lied to my face. He put himself before the health and needs of our children. I guess I saw red. I said all the things I've held in the past little while. Told him about the stark financial reality the children and I will face. As usual he said nothing, at first. Then he says he didn't know why he is doing this, he doesn't know why he feels this way. But his life isn't exactly going to be great now either. Uh hello - your choices????!!!!! I got more of the 'get a full time job - give up your career (because it's shift work) and get a normal job'
And then he threatened me with a restraining order. When I says what are you talking about, he said I know you've seen my emails on the computer, and you are so pathetic falling for a fake restaurant booking. I was astounded. Yeah I m not proud of leaving his email logged on. Or going past that restaurant. But he set me up? Why? To make me out to be a crazy woman? To take my kids away? He hasn't made any efforts regarding them in the past 3 months. He is do full of hate and anger. It's just so much to take. Why does he want to destroy me ? It really feels like that is what he wants.

I know it was a massive backslide. I know that. And I will start again today. I'm just not sure if I want to anymore.

[25yearsmlc]

Beersha, you asked a few posts ago why he can't "man up" and leave but in a different way. Or words to that effect.

So my question is, what is he NOT doing now, that you'd need him to do, to be sure of what HE wants? Meaning, isn't he being pretty clear?

I know it stinks big time, but from where I sit, he seems resolute, as many WAH's are at this time. Doesn't mean he won't change his mind, later on...but for now I see a lot of clarity on his end.

So the question is, what do YOU want, given the realities of the situation?

Thanks 25.
I really feel bad today, like just giving up.
I totally messed up yesterday, I completely lost it at him. I was politely trying to ask him about the car the day before. I needed it for one of our children, and he just ignored me. He sat there and just straight up lied to my face.


Well, which is it? He ignored your or he lied? How do you know?


He put himself before the health and needs of our children. I guess I saw red.

I'm confident he does NOT see his behavior then, ^^ as putting himself ahead of their health or needs. I'd bet a lot of money that he sees this very differently and may even blame you for 'over reacting", "vilifying him", etc.


I said all the things I've held in the past little while. Told him about the stark financial reality the children and I will face. As usual he said nothing, at first. Then he says he didn't know why he is doing this, he doesn't know why he feels this way. But his life isn't exactly going to be great now either.

in other words, HE IS IN PAIN...and your reaction was to completely blame him for that. Hey, you know this was a chance to LISTEN for information FROM him, and not to pounce.

But you're hurt and angry, and I understand that the pain you're in is not likely to bring out the best in you. (But the same applies to him). Go easy on yourself, but learn from this...and change the next interaction you have.


Uh hello - your choices????!!!!! I got more of the 'get a full time job - give up your career (because it's shift work) and get a normal job'


is there any validity to his concerns here? ^^ Seems to me your shift work probably hindered the bonding a couple can do that helps. Plus, most marriages report the lowest satisfaction levels in the first years after the birth of their 2nd or 3rd child. It's the most demanding period in their lives, unrelenting too, and it's even more important to make time for the couple.

So I think changing your shift work is probably not a bad idea at all. Why not do it? Do you love your job? Besides, if nothing changes on your end, why would your h come home?

Remember this:

No WAS comes back to their marriage, unless they believe that

marriage to their spouse can be better/different, than before...

It's the LBS job to SHOW (not say) that it can be! What are you doing to show that?


And then he threatened me with a restraining order. When I says what are you talking about, he said I know you've seen my emails on the computer, and you are so pathetic falling for a fake restaurant booking. I was astounded. Yeah I m not proud of leaving his email logged on. Or going past that restaurant. But he set me up? Why?

I'm not very clear on this^^. So, You snooped and also followed him around? OR it looks that way, IS that correct?

So I assume the restraining order would apply between you and him, NOT you and the kids, correct? And can YOU SEE how he might have a point? A court might agree with his assessment and it is definitely not benefitting you to behave this way. Do you see that?

To make me out to be a crazy woman? To take my kids away?

I don't think it has anything to do with the kids, it's to keep you away from HIM.
But I'm not sure how that would work if he were at the house...


He hasn't made any efforts regarding them in the past 3 months. He is do full of hate and anger.

Have you documented his visits/calls to the kids? It might be a good idea. Also, stop reading so much emotion into his words or actions. If he does not SAY he hates you, then don't assume things that hurt you. Besides, even if he did say that, it wouldn't make it true OR unchangeable.

It's just so much to take. Why does he want to destroy me ? It really feels like that is what he wants.

I'm sure he does not want to destroy you. STOP seeing what is NOT there. It makes it worse for all of you, especially for you.

I know it was a massive backslide. I know that. And I will start again today. I'm just not sure if I want to anymore.

It's a fair question to ask yourself. Be realistic for 2 minutes. IF he were to say "oh, sorry about all that. Let's reconcile."

What would you require of you as a couple, BEFORE reconciling, OR would you simply move in together and pick up where you left off? Would YOU seek counseling for yourself too? OR just him, just you two, or neither? Be as frank as you can be, b/c it's the only way to assess the likelihood of success later on...

Be clear about what you'd need from him for forward movement. Going "From this day forward" is not complicated, but it's very hard, and yet it's mandatory to a true reconciliation.

The reality MIGHT be, that you won't be able to get past this, ever...

IF that ^^ is the case, if you don't believe you could ever get past this,

(& many many of us could not get past it. The worst choice you can make in that case, is staying together AND staying miserable), it'd be good to know sooner rather than later.