I am still so confused about how to behave around H. He is not making many (any) moves towards me lately (physically or otherwise, e.g., talking, txting, etc). But, I often wonder if he’s waiting for me to make the first move. When I do try to reach out to him, give him a hug, try to cuddle in bed, he is generally responsive. Maybe not quite as enthusiastic as in my dreams but he seems to soften and reciprocate. Also, if I tell him ‘I love you’ he says it back but I’m not sure if I should even be saying that at this point? I think I mentioned before that he clearly felt very rejected by me in many ways pre-A, which makes me think that I should be reaching out to him to show him that yes, I will change this. However, DBing seems to suggest I should do the complete opposite and pull away from him. Needless to say I'm confused!
My advice would change entirely based on whether or not he's in contact with OW, and being fully transparent with you and at least WILLING to work on this (even if not yet fully FEELING like it). That's why I'm so big on intel and good transparency plans, because it changes my strategy and tactics almost ENTIRELY.
I hear ya Straskey and think I get where you are coming from. And honestly, I have not fully sorted out in my own mind my feelings about transparency plan/intel yet and what specifically I require given my own needs/what I can tolerate, etc. I’m struggling with it. With full access to his cell phone and phone records and him having blocked her # on his cell I’m not really feeling the need for a new cell # (I know you are big on this but I’m not sure what else that gets us beyond what’s already in place?). I don’t feel completely confident making that request bc it feels like I’m just creating a vengeful hassle that offers little (no?) more to meet my security needs than what he is already agreeing to. I mean as long as I look up the cell usage records there’s no way he can be in contact with her (or some other strange #) via cell call/txt without my knowing. There’s no way he can delete the usage records I have access to, I asked AT&T, lol! I have already questioned him about strange numbers and he has been forthcoming. I feel a little different with regard to email, only because he can obviously delete those, there’s not the usage records like cell. So that is a change I likely will request.
I also go round and round with myself about inserting a tracker on his computer at home. It seems so sneaky and devious, having said that, I also realize he deserves it. I’m also not sure I could stomach the stress of it. Even if someone else read the logs for me, I would still stress tremendously over the anticipation of what ‘might’ come up. On the other hand, I know that the reality is if he IS in contact with her we have NO chance (at least that’s my personal strong belief), so might as well face up to it. I may get there eventually but right at this moment, I just don’t think I’m quite there yet. Usually I just suddenly get real decisive about something and then I just ‘know’ exactly what I want/need, I assume that is what will happen with the home computer tracking. I’ll likely wake up one day and just feel compelled to do it and will.
We are planning to discuss transparency plan with the MC tomorrow so I’m trying to get my own thoughts in order beforehand.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
I mean as long as I look up the cell usage records there’s no way he can be in contact with her (or some other strange #) via cell call/txt without my knowing.
I'm no expert on this, but check with AT&T about usage on apps like "TextPlus," mdu. My teenagers told me about it; it's an app people can use to keep their texts secret. My H had, sure enough, downloaded that on his phone. Maybe check with the phone company about whether texts through an app like that would show up in his usage ... if nothing else, just for your own peace of mind.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I hear ya Straskey and think I get where you are coming from. And honestly, I have not fully sorted out in my own mind my feelings about transparency plan/intel yet and what specifically I require given my own needs/what I can tolerate, etc. I’m struggling with it. With full access to his cell phone and phone records and him having blocked her # on his cell I’m not really feeling the need for a new cell # (I know you are big on this but I’m not sure what else that gets us beyond what’s already in place?). I don’t feel completely confident making that request bc it feels like I’m just creating a vengeful hassle that offers little (no?) more to meet my security needs than what he is already agreeing to. I mean as long as I look up the cell usage records there’s no way he can be in contact with her (or some other strange #) via cell call/txt without my knowing. There’s no way he can delete the usage records I have access to, I asked AT&T, lol! I have already questioned him about strange numbers and he has been forthcoming. I feel a little different with regard to email, only because he can obviously delete those, there’s not the usage records like cell. So that is a change I likely will request.
I also go round and round with myself about inserting a tracker on his computer at home. It seems so sneaky and devious, having said that, I also realize he deserves it. I’m also not sure I could stomach the stress of it. Even if someone else read the logs for me, I would still stress tremendously over the anticipation of what ‘might’ come up. On the other hand, I know that the reality is if he IS in contact with her we have NO chance (at least that’s my personal strong belief), so might as well face up to it. I may get there eventually but right at this moment, I just don’t think I’m quite there yet. Usually I just suddenly get real decisive about something and then I just ‘know’ exactly what I want/need, I assume that is what will happen with the home computer tracking. I’ll likely wake up one day and just feel compelled to do it and will.
We are planning to discuss transparency plan with the MC tomorrow so I’m trying to get my own thoughts in order beforehand.
OK. I'll stop pushing. You do need to be fully ready for what you may find out, and it sounds like you're not there yet.
Ugh, is there some way I can look at his phone and see the TextPlus app? I do have the password into his phone so can look directly at it and looks for apps...although not sure if it can somehow be hidden?
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
There are lots of apps that push messages over data. You'll have no record of those at all at phone company - it only tracks SMS messages. All you'll have is data usage. Don't fool yourself with lack of call/SMS records. If they want to go underground, they can. My W got herself a tracfone that she uses only for OM.
I think mdu asked this question earlier, and I feel where she's coming from:
If it's so easy for a cheater to go underground and stay one step ahead of us, what's the point of beating our chests about a strict transparency plan?
I don't think that question was ever answered. I'm GUESSING it's because we would at least make things more difficult for them???
I think the answer to that MIGHT help put things into better perspective here.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Ok, thanks, still really trying to noodle this all over. So would you all say that the greatest advantage of doing some sort of unknown intel is that you'll likely figure things out ASAP?
I guess the other thing that I keep thinking is one way or another it will come to a head if he is still involved with her, whether I do intel or not I keep thinking it will come out although will likely take longer. Either our progress will be so dreadfully slow or his attitude will be so bad, it will become more and more obvious to me. Or they'll want to see each other and she's 2 hours away so that's not so easy. Actually, maybe that's one more 'mild' way I can keep track of him without having to suffer seeing something I can't handle. I could look at the mileage on his car and if there's a sudden spike, especially on a day I expect him just to be at work, that would obviously show somethings up. I can't imagine they would go all THAT long without trying to see each other. I also keep assuming (maybe I shouldn't) that she will get so sick of the whole thing if they are still involved that she will push him to out them or she will out them herself.
Thanks to all for reading and reacting, it's certainly a process sorting through options and what's best for me.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Yup, right there with you Train! I think my latest reply touches on that very question!
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
What's the point of DivorceBusting (or any other marriage-saving program), if it's not 100% guaranteed?
Isn't the point to pick something that gives you the BEST chance of success, and minimizes the most mistakes?
The better the transparency plan, the better chance you have of "separating the addict from the source of their addiction," and making reconciliation work.
It also serves a secondary purpose of showing the wayward spouse that the betrayed spouse has boundaries that are non-negotiable, and they won't just save the marriage "at all costs." There is a seriousness to it that is both attractive and garners respect, I believe.
