Take Two ...

[HopefulStill]

Train,

It is tough to decide which approach is right for you. In my reading of HNHN, a H is encouraged to try his best to meet his WAWs needs for up to two years before going dark. For W, they are told to only attempt to meet the WAHs need for two WEEKS. Why the huge disparity? Because they are of the opinion that 1. It's not good for a woman's health to deal with the stress that long, and 2. WAHs aren't as easily swayed by having their "needs" met. WAWs can be fought for more easily by their Hs, while WAHs tend to be more stubborn.

What you are doing right now is a "best of both worlds" approach, but that is (we're told) doomed to failure. Your husband had one affair. You took him back, but did not recover your M properly. Your H then goes and has a SECOND affair. In my opinion (I'm no licensed counselor - just a guy, like Starsky, that recovered his marriage from a steep dive!) you must not treat this second A like two highschool sweethearts in a spat. He has devastated you and your children. By letting him kiss you, touch you, and complain to you, I don't think you are setting concrete boundaries as Starsky outlines. You are instead, unwittingly and tacitly, telling him that it's ok to have an A, you'll still be there to kiss and touch and text to even as he decides to dump you out of his life.

What can you do? I have heard of others putting an intermediary in place to handle the kids schedules so that you wouldn't have to have contact. That doesn't have to be anyone formal- it can be a relative or friend. Without contact, you hope that the A is hastened to its end, and that your H returns hat in hand. There are no guarantees. Statistics that I have read state that it is less likely for a WAH to return to the M than a WAW. Seems that once men have made up their minds they are less likely to return....

I think your H is still in the fog. He doesn't see this woman's faults- only her promise. With you, on the other hand, he sees plenty of faults. It's the contrast effect- the LBS rarely looks good to the WAW. Get yourself out of that "contrast" entirely! Let him ONLY have this woman to complain to. Let's see how she handles his daily b*tching about work. Maybe she'll make the mistake at rolling her eyes at his hundredth complaint and that sets off an arguement between them?

Waywards can't tolerate an A partner that isn't perfect. They didn't blow their lives up for someone with faults. That's why it hits them SO HARD when the A partner suddenly shatters the fantasy. Their whole world operates on the premise that the OP has no faults, and will meet every last one of their needs perfectly. You are trying to spped your H to the realization that this OW is FAAAAR from perfect. The problem is, you are the very last person he will listen to on this matter. He must discover it by himself.

The other problem (though you may have better self control) is that if you are in his life, feeling this pain long enough, you may say or do something hurtful that will guarantee he never returns. By stepping away now, you only leave him with a good memory of you, not the angry, hurt, spitefully woman you *may* become.

Sorry for the long winded 2x4! I'd like to see your M recover- not crash and burn!

Deep breath!

Hs

[Train]

Sometimes, a long-winded 2x4 is EXACTLY what I need.

I've been pondering this all afternoon/evening. And I need more time to process it.

I'll be back with my thoughts once my brain has had some time to think through all of this. It's been in overdrive since I read it.

But THANK YOU, HS. I value your opinion and insight ... and your time ... very, very much. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

[Train]

Okay, I'm ready for a new approach. I'm starting to wake up at 4 a.m. every morning - even after 6 weeks of sleeping FINE - so I KNOW I'm not on the right path.

Clearly, I fumbled. I let my guard down. And now I'm on a downward spiral.

I'm ready to find my footing again, and I have set things up to be able to switch my approach.

I didn't spend 3 weeks trying to meet H's needs as HNHN suggests in Plan A. But that's in the past. I didn't tell H what I wanted. I handled that last week. I didn't tell him I'd be willing to work on our M if he ended things with OW. That's been handled now, too.

So now I can start from Square One, knowing I've taken the steps that I could ... even if I was late taking them. And H isn't responsive whatsoever. In fact - in typical WAS behavior - it just pushes him further away. I know this.

Now, for the approach. I think I'll be good with a "soft" NC. No texting. No family dinners. No calling. No talking. But to go completely NC - with an intermediary - is a HUGE commitment, and it's not one I'm 100 percent sure I can handle long-term. And something that big would take perfect precision and execution. One slip-up, and it's over. Correct me if I'm wrong about that - I'm still reading about WFH's "Plan B" - but that's what I'm gleaning from what I've read so far.

I DO think I can limit - extremely - any face-to-face contact with him, when possible. Tomorrow, he has to pick up the kids at 4:30 so I can go to my L. Both my older DDs are working. Everyone I *know* will be working at that time, so I don't have anyone who could handle that "hand-over" for me. But I can make sure I'm not here when he brings them back. And I've already made plans for Sunday so I'm not here when he picks up/drops off.

I'm ready to knock-off any physical touching and "just because" texting if that's in the best interest of the potential future of this M. And I'll do whatever I have to do to control that. I feel I have enough discipline and willpower, if I dig deep enough, to pull that off. I've done it before. I can do it again.

Here's one problem: He wants to call the kids nightly to talk to them before bed. Do I just tell him no? I don't want to hurt the kids. I know he did this to them. But I don't want to feel like I'm using them as pawns in some "game" of trying to restore my M. I can handle a firm visitation schedule. But cutting off ALL other contact, like a bed-time phone call? I just don't know. I'd love your opinions.

H texted yesterday: "I just miss my kids .... ALL OF THEM!!!!!!"

I know that's tearing him up. But that's really just too bad.

That's where I am right now. It's all just too damn bad.

[Starsky309]

I think you should definitely let him call the kids at night, but just say a "Here they are, I'll let you talk to them" ONLY. Tell the kids they can just say goodbye when they're done talking to daddy -- no need for you to get back on the phone.

And then stick to it.

My two cents.


Starsky

[Train]

Perfect. That's what I've been doing. Often even let them answer.

[Train]

Also something worth mentioning re: me stepping out and letting OW handle H ...

He told me earlier that he's off his A/Ds. He's been on 2 for several years because of his anger/temper. He had said at BD that if it weren't for me, he wouldn't need them.

So, he's apparently come off of them.

Just a matter of time, I'm guessing, before that catches up with him.

Or, maybe I *am* the root of all his unhappiness.

He (And she) shall see.

[twinmom]

If he went cold turkey off meds chances are there will be MORE problems than before to deal with. Let OW try and be perfect now.......

[Train]

Meh. Not cold turkey off the 2nd one. He went cold turkey off the 1st one, shortly before BD. The doc weaned him off the 2nd one and prescribed him a stronger one to start once he stopped the other. He weaned off and apparently chose not to start the other.

[Train]

Spiraling, spiraling, spiraling ...

S7 was bawling this evening. I tried to listen and console, but he said he wanted to call his dad. So he did. And he told him how he feels and how much he misses him being at home.

H said, "I'm going to work on getting you another day in the week."

I re-emphasized to H, later, that I am not okay with that. We had this conversation LAST WEEK. I said, "I think you need to pick the life you want and own it."

He wrote, "That's f--ked up. The life I chose to live is to leave you - NOT THE KIDS"

Guys, what do I do to get back on track? What specific steps, if any, do I take to stop this current spiraling and go "dark"? Do I just do it? Just show through my actions? I DO NOT want to fight over the kids. I don't want to fight at all. But I DO want him to understand that this is the path he's chosen and that he can't have his cake and eat it, too. I desperately need a break.

Maybe I shouldn't have let S7 call him. Maybe I shouldn't have responded about the extra day. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all.

This is out of CONTROL now.

[twinmom]

I am sorry I have no advice for you. But I wanted to say that I understand completely how you feel. H is doing the same thing to me and I don't know how to enforce this without coming across as using the kids in a "game"

Turning it over to God, as I really have no answers.