I would like to assist here in dissecting the email/text responses with the goal of understanding how you can influence interactions with H that can result in a more positive flow of communication. I am not saying you're wrong at all. My goal is to get you to see how it looks to an outsider like me who isn't invested in your sitch.
M: Thanks for forwarding the info from your lawyer. I want to make sure we are on the same page with this. What I had in mind was not someone who will tell us what to do with our kids [this sounded critical and adversarial...what an opening!for me, it'd put me on the defensive big time, but who will help us to cut through the BS so that we can have rational, respectful discussions about these things the explict implication is that H is incapable of having a rational, respectful discussions and you think he BSes...wow...how is this helpful in inviting cooperation from H? . I think that would help make this whole process a lot less contentious and less expensive to boot why would you want to choose these explosive words...looks like you had your dukes up FIRST! Why try for a more conciliatory tone/approach. Let me know your thoughts.
H: My request to my lawyer was for a counselor "to try to improve our co-parenting relationship." [NAME] was her recommendation. You've made it clear that all legal issues are to be run through your lawyers so that's how we'll handle that. My goal here is to try to best manage the co-parenting relationship in light of the animosity created by that process.
What's so awful about H's response here? I can see how he is trying his darned best, according to his own expectation, to improve your co-parenting relationship.
Now...with the practice dissection over, what I'd like for you to do is re-work your first response with 20/20 hindsight. How would you have made the below text more conciliatory? What ways do you see that it can be improved on?
Original text:
M: Thanks for forwarding the info from your lawyer. I want to make sure we are on the same page with this. What I had in mind was not someone who will tell us what to do with our kids, but who will help us to cut through the BS so that we can have rational, respectful discussions about these things. I think that would help make this whole process a lot less contentious and less expensive to boot. Let me know your thoughts.
Are you happy because the 2 of you were able to work through something and come to middle ground or because you got what you wanted?
From the outside it appears that after asking for his input you rejected out of hand his suggestion without even talking to the person to find out what he/she could do.
Is this a repeat of old patterns in your R?
Let go of some of that control, girl. Share the load.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I already considered that, bug. No, I am not happy that I "got what I wanted."
Let's actually look at my sitch. Do you think I have once, in the past six months, gotten what I wanted?
Here's where I am coming from. I hate the fact that I cannot have a decent convo with my H. But he was so self serving and so manipulative and accusatory, and so reactive, that I had to set boundaries to protect myself. The boundaries were (a) I don't respond to disrespectful communications; and (b) all D matters go through the Ls. This is not something I would have ever wanted, but I felt it was necessary. The problem is, this has resulted in little to no communication at all, and has made my H very angry, which results in me having to further protect my boundaries, etc. It's a never-ending cycle that just continues to add layers and layers of hurt, anger, etc to an already difficult sitch.
(I know, I know, who cares if H is angry, that's his problem, etc. But it becomes my problem when it affects our R in a way that is damaging to the kids, as well as causing us unnecessary trauma and expense.)
I am hopeful that, since my H is willing to go to counseling, we can break that negative cycle.
That ^^^ is why I am happy.
I don't understand why you all are so sure that I rejected H's proposed C out of hand and without knowing anything about her. As I said, I read her CV and visited her website, as well as reading the online reviews from former patients. She isn't the kind of C I had in mind, when I suggested C. My "rejection" of her (which wasn't really a rejection, since, as I told H, I think she might be useful at some point in this process as well) was not based on the fact that H (H's lawyer) suggested her. Had my C suggested her, I would have said the same thing - that's not really the kind of C I am looking for.
What is a repeat of the pattern in our M is the way we get into a negative cycle and neither of us would do anything to break it. We just waited for the other one to do something and blamed it on each other.
I felt that I took a step - asking my H to go to counseling - to break that cycle. It would be far easier for me to continue to ignore him.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
I applaud the positive interaction in regards to the children. Co-parenting is extremely hard in the best of situations and right now yours is...well....not the best. I do agree with Wonka about your wording, but at the same time you can't be second guessing the possible underlining perspective of what was said.
As for the counselor....My 2 cents. Research until you have three perspective choices. Send their info to your husband and let him choose one out of the three. That way you both have a say in the process, both of your expectations in a counselor can be respected, and it is a co-choice. However it works out....The kids are #1 and this is one item that needs you both working together on.
I already considered that, bug. No, I am not happy that I "got what I wanted."
I'm glad you considered it.
Quote:
Let's actually look at my sitch. Do you think I have once, in the past six months, gotten what I wanted?
I have looked at your sitch, I've been reading from the beginning. I'm not talking about history, I want to stay with this instance and go forward.
Quote:
I am hopeful that, since my H is willing to go to counseling, we can break that negative cycle.
That ^^^ is why I am happy.
I, too am hopeful.
Quote:
I don't understand why you all are so sure that I rejected H's proposed C out of hand and without knowing anything about her.
Sometimes people on the outside of the situation can give you valuable objective observations. It took me a long time to take these insights without feeling defensive or angry.
Quote:
As I said, I read her CV and visited her website, as well as reading the online reviews from former patients. She isn't the kind of C I had in mind, when I suggested C. My "rejection" of her (which wasn't really a rejection, since, as I told H, I think she might be useful at some point in this process as well) was not based on the fact that H (H's lawyer) suggested her. Had my C suggested her, I would have said the same thing - that's not really the kind of C I am looking for.
I think we're (I'm) confused about why she wouldn't work for you. Had you picked up the phone, told her what you wanted and she had said "Nah, I'm not your person." Bingo! But you might have found that she was just what you needed. Or you and H could have had a appt and decided after that. I've had a couple of ICs that after a couple of appts, I've known weren't right for me.
I'm only suggesting a different approach, one that gives you both somewhat equal parenting footing and moves you closer to common ground not unlike what I suggested in the field trip incident.
Quote:
What is a repeat of the pattern in our M is the way we get into a negative cycle and neither of us would do anything to break it. We just waited for the other one to do something and blamed it on each other.
How did you get into those cycles?
What are your H's biggest complaints around parenting?
Quote:
I felt that I took a step - asking my H to go to counseling - to break that cycle. It would be far easier for me to continue to ignore him.
Yes, and I applaud you. I also know this counseling is creating fear and we often times let that fear control us, so we become even more controlling. I'm just saying let the fear go. This is not a perfect process.
In an earlier post I suggested that if you have expectations about something you present as a choice to your H that you let him know what those expectations are so he's not surprised or feeling like "here we are again, nothing I suggest with the kids is right."
In this instance you could have said, "I want only a PhD counselor, in practice at least 10 years, who works with kids and parents and has experience with D." Or whatever...
Springing unstated expectations on people after the fact is unfair whether it's your STBX, a friend, your kids.
Here's the truth about these things, you'll get other opportunities.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
M, your H told you exactly why he's acting the way he's been acting lately:
"I will tell you that a significant portion of my frustration here has been my inability to talk to you directly and openly."
That DOES sound extremely frustrating, and to someone who ISN'T actively working on himself, that type of a relationship environment is going to very likely elicit an unpleasant demeanor towards you.
No, it may not be rational. No, it may not be fair. No, it may not be karmicly balanced, but THAT'S the "why".
All the best,
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
PM, you are exactly right. And I get it why he is frustrated. I would be, too. (Note -that doesn't mean I think that I am in the wrong here - I don't think I need to put his need to communicate over my need to be free of his spew.)
The problem as of late has been that if I do talk to my H, he frequently rejects/invalidates what I say, or uses it to manipulate me, or twists it to prove he is a victim and I am evil.
But if I don't talk to my H, then he makes up stories in his head (of course always with the most negative slant), lashes out at me for things I didn't even do or think, and blames me for all of it.
I am hoping that talking with a counselor present will help. Fingers crossed.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
