melissa, continued part 2

[melissag]

[quote=gabbysmom23
That was supposed to read " such a dick". Not " suck a dick"

Just in case you were wondering [/quote]

A TYPO, right . . . .

[melissag]

What does ^^ that look like to you?

I don't know exactly what it looks like. I know that right now it involves making sure the children have access to both parents frequently (i.e., not having 5 or 6 nights in a row away from either parent- it's obvious my S7 can't handle that.) It means the kids go to counseling regularly and H and I listen to what their C tells us. It means putting their needs WRT to minimizing their pain in this whole sitch above our own. And it means putting aside our own grievances with each other for the benefit of the kids.

To me, it means trying what we think might work and then making tweaks (or bigger changes) if necessary to make sure the kids are doing OK. For example, my kids FaceTimed with H tonight. They talked to him for about 15 minutes and he had to go. My S7 kept calling him back and he did not answer. This was 90 minutes ago, and my S7 is still lying in bed awake crying for Daddy. So, if this kind of thing continues, maybe S7 needs to spend more time with H, or maybe he needs to FT with him earlier in the day, or maybe he shouldn't FT him at all. I guess I would want to have some input from a child psych on this stuff.

I want things to be flexible depending on what the kids need, I guess.

I also hope that if my kids see a C regularly, my H and I will get some good information to help us see the areas where we need to step up for the kids. I know that my H hurts D9's feelings a lot. My D9 asked for a sports bra the other day at Nordstrom so I got her one. (Her cousin is 11 and hasn't developed yet either but wears one.) She loves it and I think she feels really grown up wearing it. My H asked her why she was wearing that and said it was pointless. She told me that bothered her, and I said, "I'm sorry, D9." She said, "well, it's OK, I don't really expect much from Dad." Ugh. It's this kind of stuff that my H just doesn't see. I used to try to explain this stuff to him but he saw it as me criticizing him and he was very resentful about it. Perhaps if someone else points it out he might be more receptive. And, hell, I probably am doing some things that I don't realize, too.

I am rambling now, but my point is, I just want to make sure that the kids come first.

[labug]

That's a good starting place for you.

Keep in mind that he might have the same goal but how he sees it may look very different. His view of the world is probably going to be different because his perspective is different. Doesn't mean it's wrong, just different and perhaps not as well-informed because you have been the primary care-taker.

Funny story-when our kids were small, H worked days and so I worked evenings. To this day he knows more about their favorite dinners than I do because he did a lot more dinners than I did. I will sometimes say to one or the other of the sons, "I didn't know you liked that," and I'll get a confused look back with "MOM! I love that."

So my perspective was very different from my H's. My knowledge of "favorite dinners" was very different from my H's.

You have your truth, your H has his, neither has to be wrong. His is just as real to him as yours is to you. It's what you each see from your vantage point with the limited knowledge you both have.

When you can relax away from the black-white, you can begin to realize that the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

One last thought, take these counseling sessions one at a time. You've already jumped way into the future on what might happen.

What is your biggest fear about the counseling?

[melissag]

You have your truth, your H has his, neither has to be wrong. His is just as real to him as yours is to you. It's what you each see from your vantage point with the limited knowledge you both have.

Yes, this is a tough one for me. From what he has told me so far, H's view on this whole thing is that the kids will be perfectly fine. Yeah, they might find it hard to adjust, but they will be happier because he will be happier. Also, from what he has told me, the kids don't cry to him much about this like they do to me.

So, I have the tendency to go into things with this background and already discrediting H's view. I will need to reread this and remind myself to be open and listen and be accepting that his reality is his reality. And if he continues to say things like "the kids will be happy if I am happy," hopefully the C will inject a little reality there.

What is your biggest fear about the counseling?

I am still thinking on this one, but I think it is that feeling I had when we were in MC a few years ago (and during much of the M) . . . feeling small and insignificant.

[labug]

I hope your kids will be happy, that would be the goal right.

I believe working through problems is the best alternative to D.

I believe sometimes that's not possible.

I believe, in general, that kids benefit from parents who are ... happy, for lack of a better word. (It's early still)

Kids can face many difficult things as they grow up. We know D can be a huge negative influence.

Knowing that, the best we can do is accept the situation as it is and work really hard to mitigate that negative influence. You have made the first move.

You can do this.

[melissag]

Oof.

So my H asked if I wanted to find someone (counselor wise) or if he should. I said I can get some recommendations. He said, "OK, I've asked for recommendations from my lawyer. You can get some recommendations and we will see if any overlap."

A while later, he sent me the name of someone his L recommended. It's a woman who is a CFI and does the parenting classes that are required by the court in every D case in our county. I realized that we are not on the same page here (shocking, right?)

M: Thanks for forwarding the info from your lawyer. I want to make sure we are on the same page with this. What I had in mind was not someone who will tell us what to do with our kids, but who will help us to cut through the BS so that we can have rational, respectful discussions about these things. I think that would help make this whole process a lot less contentious and less expensive to boot. Let me know your thoughts.

H: My request to my lawyer was for a counselor "to try to improve our co-parenting relationship." [NAME] was her recommendation. You've made it clear that all legal issues are to be run through your lawyers so that's how we'll handle that. My goal here is to try to best manage the co-parenting relationship in light of the animosity created by that process.

AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Someday, will I look back at this and laugh??

Maybe someone else can read this in a different way. I see a lot of P/A in there, and blame, and he is setting it up so that he looks like a reasonable person without having to DO anything. He has also set it up so that I am cornered in my response. And, he ignored what I said to boot.

I am leaning toward responding by more or less repeating (but maybe in a different way so it doesn't come across as smart ass) what I said before, and asking directly if he is willing to do that, rather than asking for his thoughts.

Any insight or advice would be appreciated.

[melissag]

Also, me suggesting counseling was in response to his "Peace" email where he practically begged me to talk about the parenting time issue with him.

So confused.

[melissag]

Thanks, Gabby. The problem with the person he suggested is that she is a person who will say things like, "you should make the goodbye with the children short and sweet," or, "it will confuse the kids if you do things as a family" or whatever. (I am making those things up, just trying to get the gist of it across.) Which is great at some point. But right now we can't even agree on a parenting plan at all.

I didn't have a problem that he suggested her, I just realized that he misunderstood what I had in mind when I suggested counseling in the first place. Which is why I sent what I thought was a reasonably nice text clarifying. What I want to do is not to have someone help us with the "rules" of co-parenting, but to help us to communicate better. My H recently sent me a long email asking for peace. He wanted me to talk to him about the parenting time, and see if we can agree. He said we should at least give it a try.

My suggestion of counseling was my response to that ^^^ request.

Am I reading what he wrote incorrectly?

I don't feel like there is any answer I can give other than agreeing with him.

[cat04]

Melissa,

Forgive me for chiming in before reading all of your threads, although I have read enough to feel pretty up to speed for now...

Gabbysmom is right. NOTHING your H does right now is going to be right for you.

And my honest opinion (based on what I have read already) is that that has pretty much always been the case, at least when it comes to your children.

I didn't really see much PA stuff in his response to you. I saw him clarifying what you said you wanted.

I also think you are making major assumptions about the counselor that he has suggested (although he apparantly has suggested comparing lists like Gabbysmom did).

Just because she teaches the coparenting class required by law doesn't mean that is all she does.

And those classes are meant to teach you how to be able to communicate effectivly as coparents, not "do this" "don't do that".

Reality is, he is going to parent differently than you. You are not one in the same person. He is going to allow different things than you will. Different bed times, different chore expectations, etc...

That is something that will happen, married or not.

You are going to have to learn to let go of some of the control because that is part of what got you (and most of us here) into this situation in the first place.

I was reading the other day about making relationships better, because I don't want to end up back here again and we can all use reminders that will help to keep our relationships happy and healthy...

It was a blog post from a woman who wanted to leave her husband.

She went to her parents. Her mother said she would support her AFTER she did one thing...

She had her write a list of all of the husbands faults.

She then had her write a list of her reactions to all of those faults.

The mother then sent the woman home with the list of her reactions, and told her to spend 24 hours reflecting on them, and to then make her final decision.

The woman did that, prayed, thought, cried and realized that her reactions were actually worse than most of his faults (her reasons for leaving).

She chose not to leave her marriage and began working on herself.

In order to improve any relationship, we have to be willing to look at ourselves first.

Just some food for thought...

[melissag]

How do you know this about the counselor he chose?!

Because I know who she is, I read her CV and I looked at her website.

Anyway. I texted him back:

M: My understanding is that [NAME] is more of a parenting coach type person. I think that would be helpful in the future. My suggestion of counseling right now was in response to your “Peace” email where you asked me to talk with you about the parenting time issue. I would also like peace, and I think it could be beneficial if we could discuss parenting time in addition to whatever other issues come up. However, it seems that things between us have deteriorated to a point where this doesn’t seem possible. I fear that trying to discuss things on our own will do more harm than good. My hope is that a counselor can help facilitate a more productive conversation. I think that understanding each other and learning to communicate in a more productive manner will greatly benefit the kids and will help us to get through all of this as well. Let me know if you are willing to do this.

H: I appreciate you responding to my email. I am, perhaps, not clear on the difference between a parenting coach and one who facilitates the type of communication you're looking for, so why don't you find someone and I am happy to talk to him or her. I will tell you that a significant portion of my frustration here has been my inability to talk to you directly and openly. However, I respect your desire to not communicate directly and If you feel it is necessary to use a counselor to attempt that conversation, let's proceed in that fashion.

I just heard the angels singing Hallelujah.