melissa, continued . . .

[melissag]

Does it really matter what he thinks of you?

Yes. It does. I wish it didn't, but it does. It's the same old battle I've faced with him for a long time. He doesn't value what I have to offer.

Example (one of a million): I remember once in MC (we went a few years back), somehow the topic came up that he couldn't stand it that I was so "anal" or something. He was talking about my S7's car seat (S was maybe 3 or 4 then) and how he couldn't stand it how I was so picky about it being properly installed and my S properly harnessed. My H doesn't like to live like that. He prefers to just stick the car seat in and stick the kid in, and it will probably be fine, My theory is that dying in a car accident is pretty avoidable for the most part, so it's dumb to not use the protection we have properly. After our session, I asked him, "H, I know we disagree and we have different views on this, but are you able to appreciate the good part - that I am looking out for the safety of our children?" He said, "No, I can't."

So, yeah, I spent many years trying to convince him that I was a good person. That what I have to offer has value.

And somehow I still feel like that's where I am. I can DB the crap out of him. I have mentioned before all the things I did that were really hard for me to do, with the hurt I have been feeling since he left (like supporting him in moving out, and letting him take whatever he wants from the house, etc.). And yet, I am still an awful, horrible, evil person in his eyes.

So how do I remove that "button"? By not caring what he thinks of me. But how the hell do I do that? I have known him for 17+ years. Married for 11. He was supposed to be the person that valued me the most. How do I shut it off? Just wipe the dust off my hands, and it's magic?

The only way I can find (during the M and now) not to care about what he thinks of me, is to tell myself that he is an a-hole, or he is crazy, or whatever. To make his opinion worthless and presumptively wrong.

As far as being defensive on here, well, yes, I am kind of defensive. I feel like I have been incredibly open and honest, and put a lot of struggles and shameful thoughts out here. I have been very open to advice and insight and have worked really hard to use that to get to where I need to be.

When I get defensive is when someone says that I am not open to advice. Or when I feel they misunderstand the situation, and 2x4 me for something that didn't happen. And I do, quite often, say "yes, you are right" to people who post on my threads.

I don't know. Maybe I am so worn down right now, that I am not good at hearing just 2x4s. There is a big difference to me when someone says, "I totally understand how you feel - here's something else to consider," rather than just a blunt "you suck at this" type of post.

A while ago I was thinking about the 5LL, and how I thought mine was Acts of Service, but I feel like now maybe it's words of affirmation. I have been so starved for those for so long. At least when it comes to my H. I was to the point where I realized, wow, I can't even take a compliment anymore.

Bug, I apologize if I have pushed your buttons. I didn't mean to.

[unbidden]

You are trying to be good and maintain dignity and good humor in an almost impossible situation. And you're exhausted. Put figuring this out on the proverbial shelf for a few days. It'll still be here. Take a rest and rest in knowing that you're a good person who loves her kids. That is enough for today and tomorrow and .....

[melissag]

I know you SAY you want to be happy. But dig deep and see if there's more there, to wanting to be declared "right". B/c it's a colossal waste of time and it delays your arrival, at the other side of this...

I really think I am OK with not being "right." And honestly, if my H and I were working toward a better M, I would really be very OK with it . . . it's kind of a trade off, right? If I give up being right, I can have a happier M.

Now, it's not so much wanting to be "right." I mean, I have long ago given up on arguing with my H or trying to make him see my POV, or care about my needs or feelings. I know it's like banging my head against a wall.

At this point, it's more that I don't want to be "wrong" all the time. There is a difference. I am fine with not being "right," and let's just leave it at that. But he can't seem to just leave me alone - he has to constantly tell me how wrong and bad I am.

Does that make sense? Am I at least halfway there?

I had started to accept that he was happier without me, he had moved on, he walked away. He wasn't coming back. This was his deal, I couldn't change it, I can only control myself. And then, boom, now I am making his life miserable, I am horrible, terrible, etc.

This is hard sh!t.

[unbidden]

What if he's just messed up, too immature not to blame you and it's never going to make sense. What then?

[melissag]

What if he's just messed up, too immature not to blame you and it's never going to make sense. What then?

Then I come here and people tell me I am stuck in anger and blame.

[unbidden]

Haha. My point was that there's a good chance this isn't gonna make sense for a long time, if ever. He just may have a screw lose and huge mother issues he projects onto you and will never be able to realize that. What then? You can't look to his views or perspectives for fairness, sense, or rationality. You can't. You can't get butter from a duck either. So stop looking to him for any kind of validation, it ain't there. You can wish it were different but no amount of trying to control this is going to give him any more sense. You're just hurting yourself and exhausting yourself too. So look elsewhere and give up worrying about his side of the street. Just keep your own side of the street happy and rational and sensible. That's really all you can do for yourself and your kids.

[melissag]

Thanks, UB. I feel like I could do that, if he would just go away and leave me alone.

Where I am stuck is that it bothers me when he comes after me. Or, worse yet, when he is nice, and nicely (albeit passive aggressively) says he just wants peace, or wants to talk, or whatever. One part of me wants to have that ability - OK, yeah, let's talk. I want to be able to respond to him, to have a good convo. But the other (much larger part) of me knows exactly where it will go, and that renders me incapable of doing anything other than just ignoring him altogether. (But still agonizing over ignoring him, because, WHAT IF he really is being genuine and I am just being a bitch by ignoring him?)

I think I am too tired to think after my D kept me up half the night last night. (Awake until 1:00, then woke up again at 4:40. Auggghh!)

Tomorrow is a new day. Maybe it will bring some clarity.

[ye21]

Hey Melissa look I trully believe that you are funny, you have a positive outcome and you seem like the "el alma de la fiesta" basically what we call in Spain that person that arrives to the party and changes the dynamic, Making that party much better.

I dont know you personally and never hear your voice, so its hard to get to know you well by only this forum. But look I am in a 12 step program for money, basically I am "addicted" to not earn enough... My W brought me to that program and if I consented her she would it brought me to 16 more.... She tough I have all kind of "addictions"...
Today I meet with her and she was incredibly angry, accussing me and threaten me with screwing my life....... At first I asked myself why? Why all this?
Then I listenned to my sponsor and he told me....its not about you...its about her... Pray for her serenity, she is in her disease and she is sick... And I started to feel compassion and see that its exactly the true.... She is feeling like that because thats the way she feel better... In 4 years and a half she had blame her father, her mom, her grandma and the world because of her unhappiness and you know what I did for a long time? Trying to rescue her of that and you know what? It didnt work.... I am the number one on her list of the Ten most wanted criminals....

Its in her brain, and you H has that on his brain too, he is like my W, a person that suffers an emotional immatureness, which its not wrong or right, its just the point where he is now, right now..... And people in that state the dont need a rescuer.... They need to face life.
Meanwhile they will destroy everything in front of them...they are like bulls out of control... Hurricanes and you have to let them go... He loves you but he is uncapable of facing that feeling now because he has 300 million feelings completelly different on the way.

I can see you dont take well criticism, Melissa you are not supposed to be perfect, you are who you are and you have to accept yourself the way you are and everything that happens the way it is....it svcks? Hell yeah its awfull, do you think I enjoyed my W telling me in front of the sprint store lady: if you dont pay the $900 dollars taxes you own I will press charges against you... That was awfull Melissa but she is sick and I cant fall into the same level... I used to but now I am recovering and I can see how all that affected me in the past...

You deserve to have a happy life and you will have it, but you need to start wanting to have that.... Have you read the book "codependent no more" ? Take a look at it, you are doing great, this is the way this its supposed to happen, dont resist against it and let yourself go, its going to be fine, you will be fine... Nobody expect nothing from you so you dont need to prove yourself.

This is your path and you have to walk it as well to grow up and be the grow up Melissa, I would like you dont have to feel those feelings but the pain its recovery and its very necessary... This is not gonna be fixed in 6 months or 1 year...but anyway are you in a rush? Permit yourself to slow down and breathe and download a meditation app for your phone and give the gift to yourself of meditation..... I feel awfull about hubby....ok let me meditate 5 mins and so on, meditate and pray for him to be happy and if you feel like insulting him, do it, whatever you feel today it might be different tomorrow, but live today...dont wait for tomorrow, tomorrow its always running towards you and always able to catch up...

Look for the little positive things... Today my W was sad as fvck but at least and this is the good I am taking with me to bed.she didnt mention the big D... So just look for the positive... YOU ARE WORTH THE EFFORT

Thats my 0.000000000000002 have a good night

[keep_going]

Melissa,

I am sorry you are struggling. I can feel it in your posts...

I don't know. Maybe I am so worn down right now, that I am not good at hearing just 2x4s. There is a big difference to me when someone says, "I totally understand how you feel - here's something else to consider," rather than just a blunt "you suck at this" type of post.

I wished you didn't feel like some of the advice has been "you suck at this" posts.

IDK why you have felt that, but it's worth taking a closer look at it. Not because "you suck," but because the true gift of these boards is that we all come here - hurting, desperate and looking for help and everyone who posts is both cheering for you and trying to help.

Everyone is here giving and posting because they want to, and it's truly a gift, if you choose to see it that way. Why do you choose to see it as people attacking you? Do you frequently feel like others attack you? If so, why?

Please - this is not a 2 x 4 - it's really, honestly just something else to consider. How so? Instead of seeing it as others judging you and thinking that "you suck at this" it could be more of people thinking "I know exactly what she is struggling with right now, it pains me to hear her because in the past I have said and reacted the exact way as her and I so wish I could help her see a way out, because I know just how painful this is. AND I know now there is a way out."


IDK... Do you think you could perhaps give others here the benefit of the doubt? Do you think you can at least consider that second perspective as a valid one?
I am not being sarcastic. I am honestly asking you to please consider it.

Because perhaps it is really not about some posters, but about you...
Could it be that it is you the one telling yourself "you suck at this?"
Melissa - We can sometimes be our own worst judges and self-forgiveness is by far, the toughest one to get to.
(I know that has been the hardest one for ME. And I had a lot of negative thinking feeding my brain with those kinds of messages. And I had to get to the bottom of where that came from and WHY I was doing that to myself...)


If it helps, I can tell you one thing - I cannot think of one post in all your threads (yes, I have read them all) where any of the posters came from the perspective of "you suck at this." Honestly, Melissa. I gain nothing from lying to you here...


And it also goes back to advice you have been given before about changing your perspective - it will only bring YOU more peace of mind. (None of us here have any ulterior motive and we have nothing to gain by telling you things just to attack you.)
I really hope you can at least see that.

So how do I remove that "button"? By not caring what he thinks of me. But how the hell do I do that? I have known him for 17+ years. Married for 11. He was supposed to be the person that valued me the most. How do I shut it off? Just wipe the dust off my hands, and it's magic?

The only way I can find (during the M and now) not to care about what he thinks of me, is to tell myself that he is an a-hole, or he is crazy, or whatever. To make his opinion worthless and presumptively wrong.

Sure. Telling yourself he is an a-hole is one option...
(How has that been working for you so far?)


What other options are there, then?
HOW the heck do you do it, then?

By detaching.

But HOW do you detach?

By focusing on you.


HOW do you focus on you?
- You first and foremost have to stop focusing on him.


How?

- First stop making all your posts about him.
- Start with one post a day where you do not mention him AT ALL. Where the post is either about the positives in your day or about the things you are working on to improve yourself. (we can be a great support for that too!)
Then increase the number of posts to two a day, three a day, etc.


But how do you focus on you?

- Start by taking an inventory of the things you need to work on within yourself.

How?

#1
A good and easy place to start is your own threads. Re-read them and identify:
a) things others have pointed out as things they see from an outside perspective that you can improve
b) things that others have said that have stung - ask yourself why - if you dig deep, you will find things to work on. (Re-read Bug's last posts about button pushing.)

#2
Then make a list of concrete, daily steps you can take to change each of those things you identified in #1.

NOTE:
- If it is hard to do on your own, therapy can help or self- help books, talks, seminars, blogs, support groups dealing with each of those areas where you may be struggling - anger, self-forgiveness, gratitude, defensiveness, self-esteem, whatever those things you find you want to change or improve.


HOW else?
- By living in the moment and focusing on what is in front of you and what is positive about your life.
Ex: If you are eating, focus on savoring the food. Enjoy every bite and every morsel.
If you are exercising, focus on the physical actions and the feelings you get from it. Feel the mental and physical rewards of your hard work.
If you are with your kids, focus on being present and giving them your full attention.
Pamper yourself - take long baths, do daily things that you enjoy that you have not done in a while. Try new things. Surround yourself with positive people and positive things.
Fill your house with flowers.
Re-paint or redecorate with happy colors.
Surround yourself with objects and things that bring you pleasure.
Develop all your senses - touch, smells, taste, sight... find things that bring you pleasure by using all your senses.
Work on enhancing and nurturing those relationships you cherish - your parents, your siblings, your friends, your relatives.
They will fill your heart with love and gratitude.


- When you find yourself focusing on him, use the stop sign technique, go do a physical activity, or laundry, or something that will require you to think and focus so you stop thinking about him.

- Practice being grateful - everyday. It will also help find more enjoyment out of your life and will change your outlook to a more positive one. Making daily gratitude lists and repeating them, by comparing the blessings you have that many others don't. That will help you dwell and focus less on the negatives/

- Give back: volunteer at a shelter group, Habitat for Humanity, keeping company to lonely elders in a senior home, etc. The options are endless. Giving enriches our soul more than anything else can.

And

- Work very, very hard on on your co-dependency.
Did you ever read the book that has been recommended to you before? Co-dependent No More.

If so, re-read it.

- Join a CODA group (Co-dependent Anonymous 12-step program). There are many groups at different times of the day, every day of the week. It will be a humbling experience and you will meet real people who will not judge you and from whom you can learn a lot. The support you will find there is INVALUABLE and you will learn to make an inventory and identify the actions and thoughts that make you place such a high value on your H's opinion of you. You will get practical, daily reaffirmations and tips to break those co-dependent thoughts and actions and become a stronger, healthier you.


M - all of the above are concrete things you can do today, every day. If you do half of them, I guarantee you that you will think a lot less about your H (if anything simply by the fact that you will be so, so busy - lol...)

More importantly, you will start on the road to detachment.

Melissa, I really hope you take some time to consider my post, because these are all things you have been adviced before and that concretely answer your constant question
HOW DO I DO IT?

Disclaimer - Detachment is so, so hard. But it'd doable. The key is that you will need to be consistent. Yes, it's A LOT of hard work.

And the beauty of it, is that it's all within your control!

The sooner you take concrete steps and actions to detach, the faster you will get there.

No, it will NOT happen overnight and it will NOT be a linear process, but one day you will realize - "wow, I have not thought about H in the last 4 hrs."
or "wow - H just spewed and it didn't bother me at all, because I can see that he is just hurting and turning that hurt into anger misdirected at me. And it says nothing about me and everything about him."

Yes... you can get there!!!!
But you will need to work at it.

AND YOU ARE 100% WORTH IT.


Melissa, I really, really wish you the best.
(And no, my post is not just a "you just suck" post


You are in pain, struggling and I GET IT.

How?

Because I was in exactly the same place you are, with the same struggles, the same questions, the same protective and defensive reactions and it was all because I was in a lot of pain.


I read your posts and it's hard, because I see myself one, two years ago in your place... And I so wish you can get out of this rut a lot faster than I did. Because I chose not to listen, not to stop being defensive and I remained stuck and miserable for a very, very long time.

I get it - we all get it here.
We have or are all going through the same things you are. And we DO care.

And we are all blessed and grateful to have each other.

((((((Melissa)))))))

[melissag]

KG, thank you for your long, thoughtful post.

No, I don't frequently think that people are attacking me. And I do see this board and the people on here as a gift - I have expressed that many, many times here. I am very grateful for people taking the time to post to me.

Perhaps I wasn't being impeccable with my word in that post. I was merely saying that if a 2x4 is coming, it is much easier for me to digest if it is packaged in a bit of empathy or sympathy or understanding.

At the risk of sounding defensive, let me explain a few things. The reason I post mostly about my H is because I feel like that is what this board is for. I come here when I need support or something is bothering me, or I don't know how to respond to something H did, etc. I hang out with friends a lot, and I don't spend much time with them talking or thinking about my H. I save that for my posts here.

I do not spend my entire day (or even close to that) focusing on my H. I hang out with my kids, I do yoga, I go out with my friends, I exercise, I go to a self-empowerment class, I train in TKD, I get massages and mani/pedis, I go shopping, I take care of the house, I help my friends and I volunteer to help out at my kids' school and with various nonprofits.

I do spend a whole lot of time working on myself. By reading these boards, going to therapy, going to the above-metioned class (as well as another group based on Brene Brown's work), reading books, websites, etc. I talk here about the things I am working on, woven in through my posts.

I write down a gratitude list every day. I journal on occasion (need to do that more), I plan fun stuff with my kids.

I do tell myself that my H's spew is about him. But I can also see his perspective (skewed though it may be) at times. I can see how my lack of communication would be frustrating for him and he might be tempted to jump to negative conclusions. That thought is what drives me to think I should try to respond to him (not because I am afraid of him or what he thinks, but because I don't like to ignore people or make things difficult for them). But then I can't think of any response that is substantive yet won't result in him just spewing more, blaming me, proving me wrong, etc. So I get frustrated and stuck. It feels like a no-win situation.

I do NOT want to feel better by telling myself my H is an a-hole. I get that. What I am saying is, I haven't found another way to not give a sh!t about what he says. So everyone on this board can come and post to me and say, give up the anger, let it go, but when I let it go, and I see my H in a positive light, guess what happens? I get sucked back in and then I am just more hurt by my H. I have posted about this a few times - I can't seem to find a place in between.

Right now, since we are going through the D process, it is extremely difficult to just live my life in peace and work on my own stuff. I have worked very hard to stay in my own sandbox, but my H keeps getting in and throwing sand in my face. I want him out, but I don't know how to get him out, other than doing whatever he wants, and I am not going to do that.

(Someone asked me recently what is it that he wants - he wants 50/50 physical custody, and he wants to give me a lot less money, both in assets and for ongoing support, than I am entitled to.)

So, my point of this post is, that I DO do these things. I take positive steps every single day, many of them, to detach and improve myself and live a good and happy life.

That doesn't mean I don't have struggles. Doing all of these things don't turn off a switch that makes me no longer care about my H, or feel hurt or sad by this whole sitch. It has been less than six months since BD; less than 3 months since we last ML; just over a month since I filed. I'm not a robot. I have feelings and even though I let myself have them, and I usually feel better after a marathon crying session, it's still a process.

Each day I come here and I read the advice in my own thread or in others', I add something else to do to help me get through this. I keep a file of great advice and insight from the boards and I review it periodically.

So thank you for your post, KG. After reading it, I added a few things to my file and my to-do list.