Life's a Picnic

[BrightFuture]

Busting, you sound good. I think you are right and something has shifted in your sitch. It seems that your H feels more comfortable around you. I think his willingness to go the party is huge! I was thinking about my last weekend and my H’s behavior, and I think I have this theory that they don’t realize that their behavior is strange. I think it is subconscious, they feel comfortable, they want to be around us for some reason they don’t understand, they don’t think that after treating us like strangers this behavior might looks unusual for us. They just do what they feel they want to do at the moment.

I see a lot of positive in your sitch. Keep on keeping on!

[bustingout]

Thanks bright!!!


I am conflicted right now. H arrived on Thursday. He brought all of his stuff in the house except his suitcase. I was going out and when i left  ( after the kids had asked him if he is staying here and he said maybe) I said to him, there is a house key by the door if needs it. 

We ended up being at the same place at the end of the night ( mutual friend's house) and I left home before him. I got home I found he had left all of his stuff here , except his suitcase, and taken arouse key. Next morning he is not here..he came later but brought his suitcase in. He had crashed at our mutual friend's house because it was late and he was drunk.

Anyway, have a good day on Friday. He is really nice to me. Friday was the party he said he would like to go.

Comes close to the time to go and all of a sudden he says I should go with mutual friend's because he has a 'business transaction ' to do and then will catch up at party. Then he says it might not happen. Then he sys get ready and I wil drop you off at mutual friend's and then catch up at the party. He is very nice.

As we leave he takes EVERYTHING into his car. He is not staying here after all.in the car, I ask if had told the kids ( they had asked him to stay and thought he was), he said 'well I told them I will see them tomorrow' I said I want to ask you  question, are you uncomfortable staying at the house. He said no. I said it means the world of difference to the kids that's why I am asking. He said i know. And he said, 'well you never know how the night will go'. 

I didn't really reply. I didn't know what he meant. In my head I thought he is one confused dude. but  was also a bit upset.

He drops me at mutual friend's...says see you soon. 

Me and friends get to party, less than 30 minutes later, h shows. It seems he just went to wherever he is staying, unpacked and showered. There is not way he had time for any 'business'. So he it seems, told me all of this about having a business transaction before the party was an excuse to take his stuff to wherever he is staying. 

I was nervous. A few people were shocked and were watching us. There was a part of me that  was pleased because when h left me years ago, these very same people were very mean to me and stopped talking to me like I was the one who was acting shameful. Bt I have learned to not care about these people so shortly after I had that pleasant feeling, I realised how petty it was of me to feel that towards people that seemed to revel in my family's demise. And I let it go.


I didn't hang around h really. We have our mutual friends so we were in each others space so to say, and we chatted a bit but not much. I had a couple of people ask me about him.  I said very little in response and was actually very calm and collected and myself ( drinking and dancing) throughout the night. 

At one point h expressed to my BF ( her husband is H best friend and he has been recently reconnecting with him...this the house he crashed at because he was drunk the night before). H expressed how much he loved BF and her husband, what they meant to him etc. My BF told me this as she was pleasantly surprised. 

Also during the evening, h came up to me and said I want to tell you something and then he took me by the arm and said I want you to meet some people and he introduced me to a group of his  (new MLC) friend's, that I had never met before (seen but not met). He introduced me as his wife. I thought this was strange. 

The party was great overall, and then we all left in H's car. He dropped people off then dropped me off and walked me in. Again, very nice. I had a bit to drink so I blah blahed a bit about 'come have another drink, blah blah' he said no, it's late and we will get together with mutual friends again in the middle of the week. Anyway, I went to bed ( with lots of water!) and while I had a great night overall I was bothered and still am that he is not staying here. 

Ok, why am I bothered. I should not expect him to stay. I got my hopes up obviously with his last trip. But in reality, not much has actually changed except him being nicer. So I can't rush this. But when he brought his suitcase in yesterday I also got my hopes up. I suppose he was and is confused as well. And the first night when he left all of his stuff here but also took the house key. It made me think he is staying here as well. But I am tired of this. I almost want to say just make up your mind. You either stay here and we keep going or you get out and leave us alone for good.I suppose his whole points to not get my hopes up. I Understand he needs to still have his privacy and assert his independence. 

And then I think that I need to sit back calmly and watch. And then I think but how is that fair to my kids???? 

He brought us so many treats when he came back...cheeses we cant get here, coffee, chocolates, even my favourite chocolate. He brought ingredients for a recipe he said he wants to make for us. 

I just am not sure what to do if anything. Do I continue to watch? Do I say something again? Although I think I said enough when I told him in the car how much it means to the kids when he stays at the house. I just don't know how much longer I can do this. I see  many positives, and then think about the reality such as him coming and going,  not taking concrete action to come back, and I wonder how much longer i can do this, or should do this? I am so tempted to cut him out. Because I am fed up. That is so much the old me though. freezing people out. Very passive aggressive behaviour. I don't like it. It is not authentic behaviour and it does not make me feel good about myself. It is not fair to the other person - even h....! Lol

So I don't know. I know h will make is way over here later on this morning or early afternoon depending on when he gets up. I am very weary of this coming and going and the disappointment of the kids...and even myself. 

Any thoughts? 

[bustingout]

Also I realise that it was hard for h to go to the party as well because after he left me, he really stopped being invited to a lot of places while I continued to be invited. This party was one of those places (it's an annual party). A lot of people had not seen him in years and a lot of people assumed we were divorced.

So I get that it's hard on h too and a huge step as well. And I get why he would be nervous about walking in with me perhaps. maybe even that's why he seems to have 'suddenly' not stay with us at the home. Was the party too much for him?

It's weird at another level. Being in DB and all I have learned, etc and the way h and I are with each other ( friendly, civil, almost going to a party together, etc) shocks a lot of people. I mean I saw genuine shock on people's faces. Yet it seemed so normal to me to have this relationship with him. It felt comfortable and I suppose society's norm is for us to hate each other and not talk etc. I am so glad I found this place, because I would have been living with a lot of anger if I hadn't.

[bustingout]

This is what i am thinking (only thinking) about telling him...if talking to him is a good idea in the first place and if what i am thinking is any good as well: ( if you think it's a good idea to talk to h I don't want to come across as preachy or confrontational etc etc)

"That this situation no longer works for me and the kids. You come and visit about every 5 to 6 weeks and stay a week. Not staying at the house and just coming and going as you please no longer works for us. I appreciate the positive environment we have created between one another as well as the steps you have been making towards reconnecting with the kids and the family. I admire the strength in you doing that.

This no longer works because if we are to be a family, this family needs to heal. And that is not possible anymore with this current arrangement. It does  not suit the reality. The kids need you to commit to them. They should no longer have to accommodate their feelings for you. 

Me and the kids have healed in several ways already. But that healing has been without you. My own healing has been without you. I have no intentions of living as a single woman and a single parent. That does not work for me either. 

I realise you need time. I realise you are on a journey yourself. We are both relearning and readjusting to life. 

This is not a threat or an ultimatum. I propose that when you are in town you stay at the house. Other stuff will be figured out in its own time. However, for the sake of the kids, not being home is not an option anymore. 

Also that you visit more often or we meet you more often. You only have snapshots of the kids' lives. It's time for them to have their father as a real person in their  lives. The alternative? I suppose the alternative is for me and the kids to continue moving forward with our lives without you. Not much different than now. 

You may be able to do these things now, later or never. But we are here now. We may not be here later. And we will never be ok with this continuing situation. "

[willbwell]

busting, I am interested to hear what the vets will say to you. I feel the exact same. h and I do the exact same. we go to the events like there is no big deal between us ( sorry but D is a big deal to me.so much so that I avoid it). I don't really care about what others think. I do care that I am keeping myself stuck...
h now talks of us in the past tense. he will say, we "did have a good life".
the kids get the new normal. no, it is not fair. is he staying? is he going? he does only get snapshots.
I think that is all my h gets/wants. I couldn't imagine it! but, for my h, family and what it comes along with it, is just not important to him. it is important to me,it is not to him. I have to constantly remind myself of this.
we do these normal things...like going to parties, school events etc...yet our lives are so not the normal that we want them to be. I know I still settle for those crumbs.

[BrightFuture]

Busting, your H appears confused. I think that he is trying to reconnect, but doesn’t feel quite comfortable. There are few sign that could be taken as positives. H wanted to introduce you to his MLC friends and he introduced you as his wife. This is big! Then he brought the ingredients for a recipe he wants to make. This shows interests and willingness to do nice things. Somewhere in one of my relationship books I read that when men want to cook for you, it means they are interested, and vice versa. I remember when my H stopped wanting to cook for me. I think this was the time when his MLC started, he was detaching from me.

Your H is testing the waters. He is not sure what to do and how to do it. This is why he changes his decisions all the time. He still needs his space to process everything.

This is from Job’s post in thread “TMAK – Explanation of Reconnection”:

True reconnection will not begin to take place until the near the end of withdrawal--going into acceptance. The spouse in crisis will begin to disassociate himself/herself w/the replay antics, i.e., new friends, drinking, etc. They will begin to dress and act like the people you once knew. They will begin to smile a bit and look you in the eyes as well. This will not occur all at once--it's very gradual. He/she will begin to gradually take an interest in their surroundings. They will start to make real contact w/co-workers, old friends (prior to mlc) and begin to take up the hobbies that they once loved. The contact w/their respective parents and family will be noticeable first. Contact w/them will become more frequent and slowly they will begin to take more interest in their children. Their interest in the pets will begin again. As they start to move deeper into the reconnection, they will then begin to take notice of their former homes and you, the spouse will be the last. I have never understood it, but we are the first in the disconnection an the last for reconnection. The mlcer may find excuses to come to your home or meet w/you to discuss trivial issues. Generally they come around to see where your head and heart are at regarding them. They may even sit down w/you and toss out feelers about some of the things that they have done just to test your reactions. They may even ask you if you have someone new your life. Whatever they ask you, please be honest w/them, but in a very calm way. This is the most frustrating step in the crisis. This is where many of us will and have screwed up. At this step, you are the one that will either make the marriage or toss it aside. This is the time where your mlcer will be testing you to the max to see if you are going to accept him/her for who they are and for what they've done. Also, while this reconnecting is going on, many of us will begin to feel anxious and the need to begin applying pressure towards them, i.e, in making a decision as to returing home. You must find it in your heart and dig very deep to keep your expectations at zero no matter what. They must not sense that you are anxious for them to make a decision. If they sense being pressured, they will run hard and fast right back into the mlc tunnel and it will even take longer for them to feel safe to try again. You must keep your body language in calm and continue to treat them as a friend. This stage can usually last up to a year or longer, depending upon the individual. It goes hand in hand w/acceptance. Once they gradually re-enter reality, and into your life, return home and take up living again, it will take another 6-9 months (approximately) for them to actually feel safe in their skins. There will be many times when something breaks or doesn't go right, and they will feel guilty and suggest that they move back out. If you love this person and want them back by your side, do not encourage them to leave again. You will need to reassure them, just as you would a hurt child. I know, it's insane, but this is what you must do.

I don’t know what to tell you, Busting. If you feel that the situation is no longer working for you, maybe you should have that conversation. You came this far, and it is up to you whether to give your H more time or push him to make a decision. It sounds that you are quite ready to push for out for good though. Do you think you should give it a little bit more time and see how you feel?

I’m thinking of you and I hope you will get your answers soon. I see a lot of positives in your situation, and I have lots of hope for you.

[NLW]

Busting,

My advice, fwiw (which is presumably nothing - look where i still am!)
is to do what is best for you and the kids.
Don't think twice about what his recent behaviour might mean...or if he is making steps to reconnecting.
My experience is that NOTHING we do or say can make them more likely to be ready to reconcile.
They are going through this process and will come out (if they ever do) on their own time scale.

Leaving them WAY ALONE seems to be the best option; not initiating discussion of anything and being civil when they want to talk/interact.

If they want to reconnect, we will know. It will be clear.
If they don't, no amount of second-guessing how to 'be' around them will influence them.

Also, I wouldn't engage in lengthy explanations of your decisions either.
I've said similar things to my XH from time to time only to have them all thrown back in my face - e.g. "you ARE threatening me", "you don't realise anything", "I am not 'on a journey'", "I AM totally committed to my children", etc, etc. It all gets turned into grist for his anger mill.

But, on the bright side... your h may not be like mine in this. Just offering up the benefit (!) of my experiences in this regard.

[willbwell]

Hi Busting. How are things going?

[keep_going]

Hi, dear friend.

Just checking in on you.
(I know you are out there reading...)


Don't be a stranger, ok?

(((((busting))))

[BrightFuture]

Just re-read NLW’s post again to remind myself that I need to continue to leave my H WAY ALONE and stop thinking about how I need to behave.

Busting, I hope all is well with you.