Four weeks in, hopeful but just starting!

[KGirl]

Thanks, labug. It makes sense. Are you a social scientist IRL? . Taking time to think always helps, so I just need to get "through the moment" so to speak. I've certainly done things in the past two months that would look like I'm planning for a D (looking at apartments, reading articles about being under 30 and divorced, etc.) when in fact that's not what I want, so it could be just as well that H's list of "possessions" is sorting through what's going on in his head and having some kind of control over it. But you're right, it shouldn't mean anything unless he actually brings it up... it's a tough thing.

Enough about him, here are the things I'll continue to work on!

-work on being less controlling. I've got books on the subject to continue reading, have identified where I struggle, now it's matter of putting the plan into action. I didn't realize how much this affects my life even outside of my M. At work, for example, I used to work in a unit where 6-7 other people did the same thing I did, and I would get so frustrated with how they did things (that they weren't up to my "standards") that I took a new job in August where I didn't like the content as much, but I could work completely independently. At least this was a healthier way of dealing with my environment, rather than gossip/complain behind people's backs (which is what I'd been doing for a year or so before I left - I even got in trouble for it). I'd also do the whole "helping-persecuting-victim" cycle mentioned in CDNM with my students. They'd come ask me about something, we'd talk about it, and then they'd go do the opposite because "they'd just work harder and it'd be fine". I'd get so resentful - why were they bothering coming to me for help if they weren't going to listen? And then when they'd come back later and acknowledge it didn't work out, I'd still be resentful in my head. I'm sure it came out in my demeanor. My IC and I have talked about accepting that people will do things you don't want, and when it fails, it's not your fault, and to not be resentful. Same with H. I can't control this journey he's on, best I can do is work on myself, be the spouse only a fool would leave that everyone talks about it, and maybe it will change things but maybe it will not.

-work on less worrying! I worry, worry, worry all the time. Preparing is OK, worrying is not. And I think I've done all that I can do to prepare for a D given the current situation. I know what things I would want and what I would find fair in terms of personal items, I know how I would want to handle the house situation, and I've identified several apartment buildings that I'd be OK with living in providing there are openings at that time. I don't think there's much else I can or need to do at this point.

-work on dependency. My SIL's husband is in the military, and I distinctly remember saying something to my H not too long ago about how I would never have been able to be w/ someone who had to get deployed because I wouldn't be able to handle the separation. Clearly plenty of people can do this in a healthy way... so I've got some stuff to figure out there. Namely how to be OK on my own and not rely on someone else to "complete" me, but rather "complement" me!

-Working out and eating well. I wouldn't consider myself overweight (5' 2'', 140 lbs.) but safe to say I've let myself go in the past several years.

-con't to do things on my own or with friends to be happy and fulfilled w/out H participating. I've joined a friend's book group, I'm doing a two night class next week on floral design ('cause why not?), and I have a short list of projects/places I want to go that I can refer to when I'm feeling lonely or bored (like, finish a scarf I never finished, or go to a nearby museum for a short-term exhibit they're having).

[labug]

When I first joined this board, there were male posters who had the acronym BITS in their sig line. I finally discovered this meant (I think) Brothers In The Sh!t.

You and I, my dear, are SITS!

Everything you listed about yourself was also on my list. The most cringe-worthy for me now was my workplace perfectionism and my inability to just let others be. I too changed jobs because of it. It's good that you're realizing and working on this at the age of 28. You make even thank your H someday.

Changing those behaviors will certainly help you when/if you decide to have children.

CDNM was helpful for me and also the Lynne Forrest's writing on the drama triangle. I'm visual and the upside down triangle help me keep that in my head.

Probably the singular work that was most helpful, other than DR, When Things Fall Apart.

Another thing that was helpful for me, learning more about introverts. Not saying you're an introvert but anything that creates a better understanding of YOU, is helpful. I accepted me, as I was and I quit trying to be someone I wasn't.

I'm not a social scientist but I could have been. I have to track some data and trend certain things and in my work. I listened to Ira Flatow (Science Friday, NPR) last week and the topic was Big Data, loved it!

[KGirl]

Thanks, labug Identifying issues is one thing, putting them into action is another. That will be the hard part for me - I like step-by-step instructions and that doesn't quite work here! I also need to keep in mind that there are some things I just can't be and to accept that - I will never become an extrovert, for example. My MBTI is ISTJ (there's that I for introvert) and the J part of me that values punctuality, time and deadlines are important, etc., is not going to go away. My H is a "P" - time is relative, deadlines are relative, etc., and that was an issue we never really talked about, but should have - how to make that work without feeling like we needed to fundamentally change who we are.

Something else I've been pondering - in the infidelity section of DR it mentions something about identifying what the OP has or what attracts your S to the OP. This weekend I finally learned the name of the OP and looked her up on facebook. These are the things H told me he likes about her:
-they have similar interests. When asked what those were, he said "she really likes to read.. like you!" That's interesting because H doesn't like to read. She also complains to my H about how often her H plays video games. My H plays video games a lot, so I'm not sure how he thinks she'd like him more than her own H? I don't buy the interests thing. They way he described it, they each see their current S's in each other...??
-she's attractive. I don't know that she's more attractive than me, but not much I can do about that anyways. Maybe this is about a confidence/independence attractive than a physical attractive, and that's already on my "to-do" list!
-she listens to him when he talks about me and our M. Can't do much about that - I can certainly listen and validate his concerns/complaints but I understand it's not really the same talking to me as it would be to a third party where he doesn't have to worry about hurting someone/me trying to "fix" it right away.

Now that I know who she is, it is SO tempting to message her and say something like "so did you know my H wants to divorce me because he's so infatuated with you? if you have no inclination or interest in my H that way, you should probably stop leading him on." But I know that's not the answer.

When it comes down to it, I think my friend had a good perspective on this. She said my H may not want this particular person - but he has a fantasy about someone shiny and new and different, and she happens to be shiny and new and in close proximity to him every day. "She's not the answer to anything," as my friend says. I don't think there's anything I should work on to be more like her, because who she "is" is not what H has said he wants. But, working on the things I've identified could lead me to be a new and interesting person!

Trying to stay positive despite my H's list of things that he wants to keep, including the house and the cat. It's like his life will barely be affected - I just disappear and take a couple pieces of furniture.

[KGirl]

Oh, I forgot the last thing that H likes about OW - she plays Words with Friends with him. Of all the things. For those who don't know it's a smartphone game/app that's basically like scrabble. H and I used to play a lot but I quit playing 5-6 months ago because he always won by laying down random letters that happened to end up being words, and I got sick of never winning. There's probably something deeper behind this than just the game, not sure what it is yet (something about not letting my husband "win" or be good at something?). But, I figured why not, and sent him a request to start a game yesterday. He asked me about it and I said I was interested in playing again and I knew he checked it a lot, so I thought I'd send him a request first, but he didn't have to accept it. He accepted it and we've been playing. Good opportunity for me to show that I don't have to be a sore loser and to commend him when he whoops my @$$? : )

[artsy]

KGirl, ignore the fact there is an OW. She's not the reason your M is where it is. As you said, she is a symptom.

One of my male friends likened it to this: we all walk a bridge in life from one point to the next. The M bridge started to crumble, and OW was in a lifeboat waiting to give him some support if he fell. Eventually he'll want back on some solid footing. So we gotta rebuild some bridges to make them stronger so nobody needs that lifeboat.

Even if you and H end up on different bridges, make yours strong enough to last.

My IC and DB coach also said to disregard OW-she is not the problem and giving her time and energy is taking it from an area that deserves it.

[KGirl]

artsy, you speak wise words. It's easier to focus on the OW/blame them instead of our H's or ourselves. Even though in this case I am highly doubtful the OW has anything to do with this (when I went through my snoop phase last weekend it was evident this is in H's head and not her approaching him). Bah. All the junk happening lately (finding the awful friend e-mails, finding the "possessions" division list, figuring out the OW's name) has left me in a cr*ppy mood. Today I'm feeling about 90% sure that we'll get a D no matter what I do or change just because my husband is so stubborn once he says he'll do something. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but he stayed in a job he hated for 4 years because he had "committed" to it. It wasn't until someone literally walked down the hallway and said "it sounds like your bosses aren't treating you well... would you like to come work with me?" that he left. No effort needed on his part. But it's also the only thing going for me in that in takes H a loong time and an extreme situation for H to act, so if left to his own devices I can't imagine the actual D starting for months.

Something I've been worrying about too much the past few days is the living situation. I see over and over on here how you're basically scr*wing your chances of R if the LBS moves out. But since my H plans to refinance and buy me out of the house, I really have no choice but to move. I'm not fighting for the house, I don't want the mortgage. I can rent a 2 bed apartment in a decent area here for essentially what I was paying for my half the mortgage so it's not worth it to pay double for a 3 bed house that's way too big for me, and we only bought it a year ago so it's not much of an investment right now.

So my question to you all is: how can you move out in a DBing way? My thought so far is to first wait until it actually comes up in conversation or I'm asked about it. Second, make it clear what my stipulations are for moving out (whatever legal-type paperwork or things need to happen to ensure that 1) my name is off the mortgage, and 2) that it is documented how much equity I am owed based on what I've paid in myself). Only after those things are squared away will I move out - so legal protections without actually starting a D or legal S. Any other ideas or approaches aside from legal 'cause I know this isn't the place for legal advice? It s*cks because H will have a pretty easy life (well aside from the mortgage payment.. but then again he doesn't spend money on anything for himself or for fun so he prob. won't care) and I will have to be inconvenienced with moving, packing, changing addresses, etc. But I don't see any other option.

[labug]

. I see over and over on here how you're basically scr*wing your chances of R if the LBS moves out.

Ok, you know I like data and I doubt that there's any really good data about this because there are so many variables.

When my H dropped the bomb, 'I said OK, you move' and even tho I did it from a place of pain and anger, I'm glad it happened that way. I postulate that I wouldn't have grown as I did if we had been together. Just my story but there are no absolutes. The bell curve is a bell for a reason.

Get out, get your own place, make it yours, create a new life.

Today I'm feeling about 90% sure that we'll get a D no matter what I do or change just because my husband is so stubborn once he says he'll do something. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but he stayed in a job he hated for 4 years because he had "committed" to it. It wasn't until someone literally walked down the hallway and said "it sounds like your bosses aren't treating you well... would you like to come work with me?" that he left. No effort needed on his part. But it's also the only thing going for me in that in takes H a loong time and an extreme situation for H to act, so if left to his own devices I can't imagine the actual D starting for months.

I said and believed something very similar. Anything is possible. What we do know for certain is, if you create a good life for yourself you can be happy and your H might look toward you.

What have you got to lose?

[KGirl]

I feel better that I didn't get a flood of "Don't do it! You'll make a terrible mistake!" posts At some point it just is what it is. And we could certainly still get back together if I move out, just will take more outreach on his part.

Journaling a little bit about "baby steps" that I will celebrate internally just to be hopeful, but trying to keep expectations out of it:
-H is more curious about where I've been and what I'm doing. I helped a friend move this week and he asked how long it took, what her apt. was like, etc. That was actually really tough because friend had to move after getting a D and needing to sell her house. Friend's H cheated on her, racked up 5 digit debt on credit cards buying gifts and plane tickets for his OW (she lives in France), promised to change and go to counseling but continued to contact OW when things got bad (so, opposite of my H - my H SAYS he wants out but isn't acting, her H said he wanted in but wouldn't act!) Friend eventually said enough is enough, but it was so painful to watch her move all of her stuff into this tiny apartment. It was like the ghost of Jacob Marley coming to show me the ghost of post-D future. Ugh. Unlike Scrooge I can't go give a turkey to someone to make it go away.
-H has started telling me when he's going somewhere (and even sometimes where!) and for approximately how long.
-H will now let me know if there's a show on TV he's watching that I might like to watch or remind me to come watch shows we used to watch together
-H will show me funny pictures/FB posts that he thinks I would like, going out of his way to find me in the house to show me
-H will now initiate small talk (one of my very first goals I made after reading DR!)
-H brought up the radio show I mentioned earlier about relationships and I did NOT respond with any form of "Can't you see I'm doing all those things?!"
-H has not brought up D or S-related talk in a month (also one of my first goals I made)

It's a balmy 30-some degrees here and the snow is melting... something about that triggered a memory of something H said a few days after BD. He said "if we were to get back together, you'd always bring up how I ruined Christmas and your birthday and I don't want to deal with that forever". So the "if we were" makes me a little hopeful.. but that second piece really has me thinking. This is how our interactions generally go:
*H does something that I tell him makes me sad, angry, feel neglected, etc.*
H: "I'm sorry you feel that way but.." or "I'm sorry, I won't do it again."
Me: "OK" *but in my head thinking - you aren't REALLY sorry. If you were really sorry you'd make it up to me, or do something big to make me happy*
A few months later...
H: "I'm going to go do X thing" (and during X thing was when negative event happened in the past)
Me: "OK.. but you need to make sure that you don't do what you did last time you did X thing/don't repeat that past mistake/etc."
H: "I know, OK? I'm not going to. Can't you just be happy for me that I got invited to do X thing?"
a few years later...
H: "I'm going to go do X thing again"
Me: "OK, you remember the rules about that, right?" *cause in my head I'm thinking he's still never been sorry about that thing and never made it up to me*
H: "That was 3 years ago! I can't believe you still can't let that go"
I really need to figure this out. Because often I do truly feel H isn't sorry when he does the "I'm sorry but". For example, "I'm sorry that you were angry I went to the strip club for my bachelor party. But I think it's a normal thing for guys to do". So he doesn't actually regret his actions. And then every time he is in a situation that could involve strip clubs (other bachelor parties, going to Las Vegas, etc.) I just dwell on that. Even though part of me knows he's not going to do that again because he knows how upset I was...and maybe I AM being too uptight about that boundary (controlling again!).. I get caught up on the " but he doesn't genuinely regret it for himself so he'll just do it anyway and try not to let me find out!". Then these things become self-fulfilling prophecies. Ugh. So bottom line - yes, he did ruin Christmas and my birthday by dropping the bomb the week before. But there are many more Christmases and birthdays to be had if we do get back together. And I can't expect something extravagant to make up for it.. I need to look for what HIS demonstrations of apology/sorry are. I don't know if there's a way I can show that I can let these things go right now, aside from not bringing them up.

[KGirl]

Getting things together. Have an appointment w/ an L tomorrow morning to try and ease my concerns about the consequences of moving out and how I could protect my equity in the home/the fact that my name is still on the mortgage w/out actual D or S paperwork. I don't think I'm ready to do it yet, but want to be prepared just in case. Moving out w/out actually filing for D or S could be the kick in the pants H needs to see what it's like when I'm not around.

H is staying home today sick. I can count on less than one hand the # of times this has happened. I just want to cuddle him and comfort him and wait on him like I'd use to do (which he probably found smothering) but limited myself to "Hope you have a restful day. Let me know if I can help at all" and walking out the door. Pre-BD we'd talk a lot in the bathroom while getting ready in the morning, post-BD we are in separate bathrooms so no talking. H came out of the bedroom despite being sick to chit chat with me in the kitchen this morning about having the flu, maybe taking off work tomorrow, asking if I got a flu shot, etc. Ugh. I actually feel the opposite of a lot of people on here - rather than be stressed about going home, I look forward to coming home and being near my H. Probably helps that he's nice and doesn't spew awful things at me. I'm not sure if this is a comfort thing (like enjoying his presence even if we're not talking) or if it's a control thing (like feeling secure that I know exactly what he's doing when we're both home and isn't off with someone or plotting against me) : /

[KGirl]

More interesting things from H yesterday....
-received texts during the day about the women's Olympic hockey game and the score (which I had not mentioned any interest in). Haven't gotten any texts from H since BD that weren't purely logistical until now.
-Earlier in the week I posted on FB about how excited I was for floral design class on Thursday. Hadn't mentioned it to H, when I came home yesterday H asked about it and when it was. When I came home H asked to see the arrangement I made.
-H asked me to help him find something he lost and made cute comments (that he knows were cute!) about the thing hiding and how he made it disappear
-H came into "my" bathroom this morning to comment on the weather and that it hadn't snowed yet

But... then he didn't come home yet from work this evening and no word from him. Who knows. It's hard for me to accept he actually may go through with this because I don't know how someone could be so nice/friendly and still be planning to D in some other part of his brain.

The L meeting today was depressing. Legal advice was fine (essentially rec'd that if I were to move out, best to file for S/D so that mortgage obligations, equity owed,etc. were all spelled out and documented and I wouldn't be held liable). But the L felt the need to add some life advice that wasn't exactly appreciated:
-"If this is happening so soon in your marriage, it doesn't seem like there's a foundation for a long term relationship anyway" (n/m the fact we dated for 10 years I guess...)
-"So he's infatuated with someone else... there are going to keep being people that pop up in his life, who's to say he won't keep chasing them?"
-"It takes two people to work on a marriage. If he's refused to do counseling or anything else, nothing will change, so best to move on and take action"

UGH. Hard to get those thoughts out of my head. I liked the guy's legal approach, but don't know if I can work with him given his other comments. He did say he's pro-marriage but seemed to want to play a kindly father role or something.