living with WAW who hasn't walked yet

[ericmsant2]

As AnotherStander mentioned - this will take time.

As for your question

Now what can I do with this epiphany? Anything? Would sending it violate a rule because she really doesn't care why anymore?

Sit on it. I would not send it.

You may want to consider posting over in MLC.

Peace,
Eric

[zew]

Working on GAL. That's harder than I thought, too. Most of my few friends are husbands of her friends, who are in on her unhappiness, so I don't want to get into that friction, so I'm looking at building a whole new network of friends - not my thing, really. A lot of my hobbies were kind of introverted and tinkering or computer related, and that was a big complaint of wife's, so I'm trying to 180 that behavior. Getting out of the house away from the daggers is a good thing, though.

- I been working out for last 8 weeks and LOVING it. Down 18 pounds, 2 to go. Working on that 6 pack.
- took up skiing again -- a big part of me that I had totally dropped because W didn't ski. In retro, shouldn't have done that -- "To thine own self be true." Wish kids would come more often, but they want to veg and play video games. But it's nice not having them set the pace when I go alone. And skiing single gives you that 5 minute speed-meet when you fill a chair with strangers.
- looking online for a local club (book & wine, second language conversation) or maybe community service volunteer work. Still looking - want to find something that may give me some support down the road if possible.

And of course in exploring this, I realize that over the years of M, I had fallen into hobbies that while completely gratifying to me, kept me mostly at home, and would have appeared to my W to be, well, let me say, cerebral and boring.

Quite a learning experience, all this WAW stuff. Not at all enjoyable, but a learning experience nonetheless. Still feeling hopeless, but somewhat better today.

[zew]

Looking for opinions on GAL activities.
OK, first off, GAL is for me and my future, regardless of with whom. Got it. But at the same time, there is that "being the guy only a fool would leave" thing. So some GAL activities may be more appropriate than others.
For example, drinking at strip clubs is a GAL activity that would be in clear conflict with "being the guy..." so that's easy.
But knowing that you can only do so many GAL activities, is it important that they fit into the set of things that W would value, or might even want to participate in some day if R ever happened? In my case, I'm considering a GAL activity that W could never participate in (a language thing), and wondering if I should spend my time elsewhere.
Again, no confusion about GAL being for me, just a question of whether particular activities that may be of interest to W would be better candidates.
Or would that perhaps end up looking manipulative?

[zew]

Man this [censored]. I noticed I don't get FB updates from my W anymore. She is shutting me out of everything, bit by bit.
One of the issues she raised was me being on the computer and not spending enough personal time with her, and now she stays in the same room long enough to eat dinner, then hides in her office or in the bedroom. Impossible to do a 180 on that when she totally isolates herself. I spend time with the kids and stay out of my office as much as possible. All I can do is be best me for me and kids, but right now I just don't have a lot of hope. I would love to just give her a big hug and say we'll get through this, but I'm just seeing daily more resolve on her part to move on.
I had hoped that maybe some of the fog would lift in a few months after contact with OM quit, but now I think she may be clinging to the dream of him leaving his W when his kids are out of high school next year, at about the same time she would have stowed away enough funds to leave. That dream could carry her a long way. A marathon for sure.

[zew]

Sorry about that last post. There was a moment of self pity there. Today is a better day. I'll be ok after all this. I have come to recognize a couple of the flaws in our R that got us to this point. Things that either one of us could have so easily broken the cycle on, if only we had been a little more in tune to what was going on. I'll tell you (and I'll certainly tell my kids when they are about to marry) there are about 5 books that should be required reading for anyone wanting to marry.
Anyway, I'm just glad I'm not in W's shoes. I'm down 19 lbs on a 20 lb goal, I'm at peace with myself, my morals and values. I can see some of my faults, and won't make those mistakes again. On the other hand, W still takes no responsibility for anything. Just found out she has maxed out a couple of cards I never knew about, and the collectors are taking her to court. I gave her a budget, she blows through it, and then wonders why I'm not paying off her card in full every month. I went through paycheck and expenses with her to show her how that all works, and her conclusion was that I'm hiding money. That whole gross/net thing seems confusing. So I kind of realize that there's been this whole fiscal irresponsibility thing going on for years that I kind took care of and resented, but never addressed, and should have.
In any case, if we D, she's got that lesson coming at her in spades -- bad credit rating, looking for new mortgage, car loan, all with a work history that started last week. If we R, we'll have to figure out how to break that irresponsibility/resentment cycle, which I am now aware is an issue for me in an R.
So I'm lucky, I guess. Either way, I will rid myself of that issue.
Every day is easier when you're living clean, and know who your monkeys are.

[zew]

AS posted this on another thread as something one might say to W. I wanted to post it here for comment so as not to hijack the other thread.

"Despite our situation I do still care very much for you and want you to know that I am here for you if you ever want to talk about how you feel or how things are going in your life."

I want to offer this to my WAW, because she made a comment about OM "always listening to her as a person who had something to say." This isn't the first "you don't listen" I've heard, so I want to 180 that by shutting up, listening, validating and not trying to problem solve. So I want to put the offer out, one time only, with no expectations. However, I'm conflicted with not wanting to appear to be pressuring or invasive. My W is extremely hostile right now - she feels she is a "prisoner" in our house because she doesn't have the means to leave. I am trying very hard to give her space, largely through avoidance, but I still want to have as many 180s in place as possible. I want to avoid any setback if possible.

Tonight when I got home, I engaged her on how her day was with new job. At first she just said "Fine." but I pressed on by telling her how excited I was that she had joined a good company with a philosophy she was familiar with and agreed with, and that she had a good mentor in the company. (i.e. I was able to repeat what she told me last week.) I got about another 6 sentences out of her. (a conversation!)
I'm walking the fine line of trying to 180 my issues that she has complained about without appearing to be giving her the 3rd degree when she is already feeling cramped for space.

So, any comments on AS's suggestion quoted above?

[2ndTimeHurt]

Hey zew.

I just read through your thread and wanted to say you sound like a smart strong man. You seem to have your head on straight. I can relate as I'm sure we all can regarding the WAS. I can't relate to PA withdrawals though. My ex seems to block people out once she is done with them, except me for some reason(probably because we have a child). The first time my ex left me it was all hatred and resentment towards me. She had a very good reason though(my rage issues). I spent the last 2 years changing my behavior(books, counseling, podcasts etc), and she hated me for that. I got the "why didnt you do this 3 years ago!" speech. Regardless, I kept on keeping on and she finally saw my changes. Problem was, she still reacted to me as if I was still that same person. That's for her to figure out but she does know that I'm a changed person. Point is, keep doing what you're doing and eventually you will be happy with all that you've accomplished. Whether or not your w appreciates and accepts that is on her.

Regarding AS quote.... I'm sure I've said something similar along the way but my actions have always showed her that. For some reason my ex always comes to me with stuff that's on her mind. Stuff about work, family, friends etc. I'm always there to listen. I've gotten flack for that here, but it's who I've become. I think she knows that I'm always going to be there to listen to her. Her ex of all people cares what she is saying or feeling. She's even said that to me.

Good luck zew. I think you'll come out of this on top one way or another.

[zew]

Thanks for the encouragement, 2TH.

I just want to get as many 180's in play as I can. I have this compulsion to do something. [but working on not doing anything negative] One of her complaints is that I wasn't romantic enough and wasn't interested enough in her day to day feelings. I can recall 3 occasions in the fall where I asked her out to dinner at our favorite place and she shut me down - of course now I know that she had EA/PA going at the time. I think I was always there to listen when she brought stuff up, but I didn't actively engage her to find out how she was if she didn't bring anything up -- I mistakenly assumed everything was OK.
I can see that some of the things that would have been so easy to remedy then seem impossible now that she's built the wall.
So now, if these were some of the major issues with our R, I'd of course like to 180 them, but I certainly can't go for "romantic" at this stage. Best I can do is hope to make her comfortable with conversation. Very carefully.

[2ndTimeHurt]

Yes, very carefully. Avoid conflict like it's the plague!! Become a validating machine!! Keep your thoughts to yourself and just listen!!

I never realized how much my ex likes to talk. I thought she was more like a guy in this sense. But after she left I focused on listening and validating. Boy can she talk!!

I know you want to "do" something. What I did was focus on self help. Since I had an issue it was easy to do. It felt like I was in university again. Studying everyday til 4am! After I worked out my anger I realized there was a boatload of other stuff I could work on. Simple stuff like meditation, self awareness and consciousness etc. All that stuff helps with relationships as a byproduct. So by working on you, you are working on your m.

The hardest part is getting your focus off your w. She will always pop up in your head!!

[nit84]

zew,