Don't know if im on the edge anymore or not....

[labug]

Dingo, you're welcome to disagree with me anytime you want. But I definitely disagree that setting a boundary that protects you is fear-based. Boundaries are necessary for a strong, healthy R. Living fear-based is not setting a boundary for fear of making the other person unhappy.

If you feel good about the email you sent, then feel good about it. But I think something must be niggling you or you wouldn't be disagreeing so strongly. I'm always the most defensive when I'm trying to convince myself that I'm right.

We have only what you've written about your W to go on. I think she's confused and maybe a bit scared but the mindset of the WAS very rarely has anything to do with what I post to people.

I just read back through your threads and she hasn't been consistent for more than a couple of days since you've been on the boards. If I've misread, please let me know.

What do you need to see/hear from her to feel confident in re-engaging?

[2ndTimeHurt]

"Here's an article that I am sure most of you have read but maybe ought to re-read.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm"


That article brought me back to my last 14 month break up. I was exactly that person. I was someone she could trust with her issues. Big or small I was someone she could trust.

Honestly, this is what brought my ex back last time. We both dated during our 14 months apart, but I was always a friend to her. Someone she could trust with all of her problems. I believe I'm still the only one she talks to about her problems. It's about perception, I may be viewed as her emotional tampon to some, but I also may be viewed as a great friend to others. I prefer to look at myself as the great friend.

I'm not too familiar with your sitch but the last few posts caught my eye.

I hope you figure it out.

[dingo]

Dingo, you're welcome to disagree with me anytime you want. But I definitely disagree that setting a boundary that protects you is fear-based. Boundaries are necessary for a strong, healthy R. Living fear-based is not setting a boundary for fear of making the other person unhappy.

If you feel good about the email you sent, then feel good about it. But I think something must be niggling you or you wouldn't be disagreeing so strongly. I'm always the most defensive when I'm trying to convince myself that I'm right.

We have only what you've written about your W to go on. I think she's confused and maybe a bit scared but the mindset of the WAS very rarely has anything to do with what I post to people.

I just read back through your threads and she hasn't been consistent for more than a couple of days since you've been on the boards. If I've misread, please let me know.

What do you need to see/hear from her to feel confident in re-engaging?

I agree that boundaries are important and necessary to a good relationship - with anyone, not just a marriage. However, at the very basic level, if something is there to protect us, then the thing that it protects us from is something we fear, or at the very least something that makes us uncomfortable. I am not saying that its the same as being a doormat and allowing yourself to be subjected to all kinds of emotional pains because you are afraid of making your partner/friend/whatever the relation is unhappy. But it is living fear-based to not challenge these boundaries just like it would be living fear-based to never drive a car because you're afraid you'll get into an accident.

There are plenty of people here who have completely detached and moved on with their lives. They have started to date other people, maybe even married other people and their X-spouses have done the same. They don't need the boundary that I need because they no longer fear what seeing their spouse with someone else can do to them emotionally.


I do feel good about the email. What's niggling me is that I do see some positives from her actions over the past month and also the past week. I probably do have some more hope than I had prior to receiving that email. I am definitely not 100% detached and she does still affect me emotionally. However, my challenge to myself is to see if I can have a positive interaction with her regardless. If I can not let it show that she can affect me. If I can not pressure and not react. Maybe I am not ready for that and maybe I am - how do I know if I don't try?

Generally her flip flopping has happened on a cycle of 3-4 weeks.

My question still is - how do I know where I stand and where she stands unless I interact with her?

I am not initiating. What is the harm in responding. Doesn't it show her that I am strong enough to respond without falling apart and begging her to come back. Doesn't ignoring her tell her that I can't handle it?

Your last question is a very important one that I just do not know the answer to yet.

[paul19510]

Dingo, I believe that each of us has a unique situation. Nothing is "cookie cutter". Begging or pleading wont help you or W. But you want to reach out to test things. I could be wrong here....its your W and your M. What do you want? Personally, I think if you reach out and have the understanding when you do, that this could be a problem, but when you reach out you a confident and strong and you keep it simple, then you'll. Probably be fine. You don't need our permission or agreement. There or no mistakes only learning opportunities.

[labug]

I agree with Paul. If you're at a place where you can be teflon-man and her cycling doesn't keep you on the proverbial roller-coaster, then go for it. Interact as much as you feel comfortable.

I got that way in my R (of course it took me a lot longer). H and I could interact and I wasn't emotionally rocked by his response or lack of response. Life was good and that's when we tentatively started a R. But your W is in a very different place than my H was at the time.

Doesn't it show her that I am strong enough to respond without falling apart and begging her to come back. Doesn't ignoring her tell her that I can't handle it?

Mind reading. We don't know what she takes away from your actions.

I don't often advocate acting to "show" people things, do it because it's what's best for you, it's who you are. If we're doing things only for effect, our actions (changes) are seldom sustainable.

If you can do what you do with dignity, compassion and empathy, maintaining your boundaries and having NO EXPECTATIONS, you'll be good.

[labug]

dignity, compassion and empathy,

I left out honesty and the truth that you have to have these for yourself before you can give them to others.

[sandi2]

First, thanks for the clarification that you did not suggest to her to meet up later. I did misunderstand.

Lord knows I wish I could be more like bug and advina! I so admire their ability to show class, maturity, and calmness. But me.....well I tend to get tacky when I'm trying to nail down my points on a subject. I don't want to do that, so I have to step back and just breathe.......and then delete the loooong post I was going to send yesterday. Now, I haven't changed my opinion, but maybe I won't sound as if I'm attacking anyone.

Dingo, I have read a lot of posts filled with different advice for the LBS over the years. It is not uncommon for the person who is receiving the advice to keep searching until he finds one he likes. Bottom line is that most of us usually do what we want to do.....and not b/c another person advised us differently. There are exceptions, of course, and there are some who are willing -- only after facing many failures. I wonder if you are trying to find someone who will agree with what it is you really want to do.

Yes, I have read that article from MWD about David and the BFF approach in his stitch. I never saw his thread on the board, which doesn't mean anything except others searched too, unsuccessfully. I don't want my statements to be misunderstood about MWD's article, but I personally have not seen one stitch where the BFF approached worked with a WAW in an A. Let me clarify what I mean by "work". I am referring to the W's sexual desire, attraction and respect for her H being restored in the M. Now if he wants to just be best friends with her....then that suits a lot of women just fine! And they may live together from now on.......in a sexually starved marriage.

Here's the problem with that approach. The WAW who is having an A has lost her respect somewhere along the line for the LBH as a man. That usually happens first, then she loses her sexual desire for him as her H. With a woman, she has to respect him as a man....in order to be sexually attracted to him. Oh sure, they can fake it. Women have done it for centuries...all the time their H's would being saying, "Oh, I would know if she was faking!". And he has no idea how vulnerable she is to having an A b/c her deepest, emotional needs are not being met. Look how many stories are here on the board where the LBH says in his first post that he had no idea things were that bad!

I have read hundreds of threads right here on this board about a LBH maintaining a great friendship with his WAW, while they were S and all the time she openingly conducted. Her A. She gets her sexual needs fulfilled by OM, and she gets her other needs met by her BFF (LBH). Whatever her favorite cake might be, LBH is eager to serve. He's fine for her friend, but sadly, she has no sexual attraction for him. Plus, due to him putting himself into this BFF status with her, it ties him emotionally where it is extremely difficult for him not to hold out hope, even have expectations, and prevents him from moving on with his life. It is like a death trap.

Even I wanted to keep my H for a good friend, but I had lost sexual attraction for him as a man. It really shook me when he told me we would not be "friends" if I left the M. Now remember, there is a difference in being friends and being friend--ly. One decribes a relationship and one decribes nice manners. If I had to choose what I believe most men would want in their MR, I would say they prefer the W have respect (admiration) for him as a man. He can be friends with anyone, but he wants this woman to be sexually attracted to him as a man.

When a couple has been torn apart by an A, there needs to be a process in order for them to make it as a happy couple. And yes, during that process, "one" area among many things is to like each other again......or as some would say, become friends again. They need to be able to stay in the same room without getting into a fight and show consideration toward one another, etc., etc. But I simply have not been convinced that a woman who has chosen another man over her own H...can be attracted to a man who thinks so little of himself that he would consider being her friend while she continues to sleep with another man. Why on earth would any man think that was attractive? If anything, it would cause her to disrespect him even more. He stops being a man in her eyes.

Perhaps I have simply missed it, but MWD's one article of David's approach is the only one of that kind that I have ever seen in any of the many materials I've read over the years. Maybe, if it worked for you, your story could be the second.

Like I said, you will pick the advice you want to follow. If I can help you or anyone, then I am more than happy to try. But I can just say so much. You said if there was another way to tell you what it was, but I have tried to tell you in the very beginning.

[dingo]

Point taken on the mindreading bug. You are correct - we have no idea what she takes away from any interaction.

I also understand what you're saying about how long it took to get there and how you and your husband were in a very different place than my wife and I are. I was not suggesting that I am there (maybe it came across that way). I was merely asking how I know if I am there or not, unless I interact.

Sandi - I am also not suggesting that I want to be in the type of BFF relationship you describe. I was merely pointing that article out as something that MWD thought enough of to write about. Its an interesting concept.

I am also not looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear. I don't even know what I want to do regarding future contact with my wife in the short term so there is no advice that I am specifically looking for. I am not asking for anyone to tell me its ok to meet with her.

What I did ask and I would like to hear opinions on are the following:

1. Are you suggesting that before I respond to my wife in any way, shape or form, that she has to begin a conversation with something along the lines of 'the affair is over, I want to re-commit'?

2. Is this realistic? Does this actually happen after weeks/months of no contact/ignored attempts at contact? Or is it more realistic for the WAS to approach slowly, maybe ask to meet up to discuss it in person?

3. In your opinion, what is wrong with the response that I sent to my wife after she repeatedly asked me to respond to her?

4. Did the fact that I responded and the manner in which I responded cause her to lose respect for me, in your opinion?
(because I chose to talk with someone who is actively (or not - who knows) cheating on me)

5. Where in my response or in any of my subsequent posts did it come across that I wanted to be her friend as opposed to just being friendly?

I obviously value your opinion and bug's and any of the others that take the time to post on my thread. I wouldn't ask for it if I didn't. I am sorry if this is coming across otherwise.


BTW - i respond just as well to direct, plain english as I do to calmness, maturity and class. :P

[sandi2]

BTW - i respond just as well to direct, plain english as I do to calmness, maturity and class. :P

. Good thing!

[labug]

I think a already responded to most of your questions if not directly then indirectly.