PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced

[planet]

PatientMan,
I do feel for you. I can empathize in regards of your relationship with your XW, man to man, husband to husband and more importantly your kids. It is truly sad to see WAWs hurting so much and can't seem to find their way.

Sometimes I feel that the LBH needs to completely break away from their WAW no matter how unjustified or how wrong it feels.

After so many years, it is always someone or something that you need to prioritize.
I ask you this. Is it wrong to prioritize yourself?

She seems to be one of those people who thinks times heals all wounds. To anyone reading this who thinks that way, I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.

Hard work can heal wounds. Acceptance can heal wounds. Neosporin can heal wounds.

But time?

Time is just a force that can be resisted. It is a force that can wear us down so that we come to a place of acceptance. It is a force that can wear us down so that the pain motivates us to do the hard work. But time itself is a force that the stubborn can resist.

Couldn't agree more. Time by itself would not heal 'inner wounds'.

[makingmagic]

Thank you melissa & PM.... your conversation has given me food for thought....

"You are correct, you cannot force her to grow. However, you can tell her that she must address these issues if she wants to have a relationship with you. Or you can just accept that she may well never tackle her issues, and decide whether the person she is now, and the R you have now, is enough for you.

And then you need to think about whether it's even possible for her to address these issues when you are around all the time. But it seems to me to figure that out requires you to find out exactly what she means when she says she needs to make sure she is okay on her own. And no, you don't need to make and enforce boundaries for her, but you can make the boundary for you, if you want - that you won't have an R with her unless and until she makes an effort to "fix" herself."


This makes sense to me... I am ON BOARD as well! Thanks!!

[JayMan]

PM - amazing.

Just don't let your tagline get old or grow stagnant: "Whenever I'm sad I STOP being sad and start being AWESOME instead. True story."

[PatientMan]

After so many years, it is always someone or something that you need to prioritize.
I ask you this. Is it wrong to prioritize yourself?

Of course not! You have to love and accept yourself to best love and accept others. And that means taking time to work on yourself, which inherently means prioritizing yourself along with those you love.

-PM

[PatientMan]

PM - amazing.

Just don't let your tagline get old or grow stagnant: "Whenever I'm sad I STOP being sad and start being AWESOME instead. True story."

I appreciate the support, Mr. F.

-PM

[melissag]

Oh dear, PM.

And we cannot...we MUST NOT forget that once I've accepted a challenge, I cannot unaccept the challenge. I cannot rest until the challenge is completed.

This sounds like something I would say. What is the challenge, PM? What if, instead of the challenge being making your XW come back to you (which we all know you have no control over), it was FOR YOU to live a happy life? (Irrespective of whether XW is part of it.)

Actually, past that. To the place where the possible and the impossible meet, to become... the possimpible.

I would actually call that the possimpossible. But neither one makes a damn bit of sense.

The bottom line for me is: is it the right thing to do? And also: not doing something I will regret.

What does "right"mean? Right for what? For whom? And how do you know?

Well she doesn't want a relationship with me now without her issues addressed, and no I will not decide that the person she is now and the R we have now is enough for me. It is not.

OK, so what are you doing, then?

I DID feel done. But then I ran a little experiment that showed me I'm not ready for someone else right now, so I can't use that tool to facilitate me moving on.

Ummm. Have you realized the flaw in this logic? If you continue to hang on to your XW, do you think you will ever be ready for someone else?

Also, why do you need that tool to facilitate you moving on? You don't need to move on with someone else to move forward without your XW, do you?

And I also got a kick in the seat of the pants of my morals and values, and that picked me back up again. It woke me back up, so I stood up, went and bought my ducky inner-tube floaty, and am standing on the shore again.

I don't know how you are getting any action from any women wearing this ridiculous ducky thing on your waist, but to each her own, I guess.

But seriously . . . what are your morals and values that are in play here? And when does your happiness become part of that?

I will admit, I have thoughts along these lines. It goes something like this. My H and I promised each other to love each other through thick and thin and losing baseball seasons, bald spots, GI viruses, lice (but not pubic lice), and rainy weather (or whatever we said, I haven't been able to bring myself to read the vows yet even though I do have the write up of the whole service). And my H svcks for breaking his promises. For walking away. For not trying. For bailing when things got tough. For caring more about his own happiness than our M or our children. So . . . if I just say OK, let's get D, and I move on without him, am I just as bad as he is??

I am not sure where to draw that line. And maybe it is because I am a woman, and I have a daughter, but I wonder . . . if I were to hang on for 2+ years, while H continues to break my heart, am I teaching her the right thing or the wrong thing?

By the way, I have to tell you that your "Neosporin can heal things" comment about made me spit out my drink. I am a big fan of clever humor.

Also, JonF made a great point. Make sure that you really are still being awesome.

[JayMan]

Other than loving "possimpossible"... What does your W want?

I know my W is committed to our marriage from some sense of loyalty, etc, where her PA made her feel "dead inside", yadda yadda yadda.

The women I know want a strong capable future-preserving man. If you've been controlling, I can see your W maybe being a bit off-put by that full-force, but maybe it's a time to just season.

I make an amazing pork tenderloin, but for 48 hours, I do a 3x Old Bay rub to it, and then I pan-sear it for about 5 minutes. The 5 minutes is what people see, not the 48 hours rub. Are you "rubbing", not to be obscene, or searing?

[PatientMan]

So last night was one of my weeknights with the girls. XW is trying to sell her vehicle so she can get a lower monthly payment. She asked if I could stay with the girls longer so she could run an errand related to figuring out how to get the new vehicle.

Of course I said that was fine.

One of the consequences of our boundary establishment that didn't cross my mind at the time was that I was going to lose a lot of quality time with my daughters.

Our routine was I would come up after work and do a lot of the nighttime routine with them. Make sure their homework is done and help with that if needed, make sure everyone showered, brushed their teeth, and cleaned up. I would do devotions with them and tuck them in individually.

With the new boundaries I only see the girls twice during the week, and one of XW's boundaries was she wants me in her house less, to establish that as her space so she can work towards feeling the way she needs to feel to heal.

So I lost a HUGE part of my involvement with the girls. All of that stuff I do with them...gone. HUGE.

But I got to do that last night and it felt GREAT. It's only been two weeks, but I miss that so much. I can't tell you how hard that's been on me. All along we have agreed and maintained that I wanted to be as involved as possible, so to be "acting divorced" in this respect is really hurting. I miss my girls.

I call them every morning before school and D4 asked if I am coming up tonight to see them. I told her that I wasn't, that I come up on Mondays and Wednesdays, and she just started bawling.

She's 4. She doesn't understand why I'm not around more, she just misses her dad. And I hope they "get" that I WANT to see them as much as I can, that I'm not NOT seeing them as much because it's an inconvenience or because I have better things to do or because I don't love them as much. I tell them that, but I hope they "get" it.

And D7, who already knows the answer, but thought it couldn't hurt to ask, asked if I could spend the night last night so she would feel safer.

I LOVE being a dad. I want to be an involved dad. I DO NOT want to be an every other weekend dad.

I know I need to make the best of whatever time I have with them, and I do and will. But I feel like I'm losing my girls now too.

We're trying out this "acting divorced" thing because we both have places we need to get to, but I worry that it will just become the new norm instead of a temporary necessity.

-PM

[swoop]

I feel your pain, PM. I miss my daughter so much. It is undoubtedly the hardest part of this process. Everyone I speak with tells me, "just be strong for her. She needs you". They say, "you're a great Dad, so she will always have you in her life", that sort of thing. While that is comforting, I worry about the future connection I will have. How will things change when I move on with someone else. How will OM play a role in my relationship with D. Those are things I worry about 24/7. I assume you worry too. how can we not? We would have to be completely dense not to worry about those things.

The good news is, we do have control over this part. Just be a strong Dad for your girls, stay involved, stay positive. I have made huge efforts in myself, to separate Wife from Daughter. It has made my interactions with both of them more positive. Co-parenting is just as difficult, (if not more so), than maintaining the marriage. It takes a lot of work and a lot of tongue biting, but I honestly believe in the long run it will pay off. I wish you luck, PM. You really impress me as the type of Dad that will make it!

[PatientMan]

This sounds like something I would say. What is the challenge, PM?

It's back earlier in the thread - the final play in The Playbook. To protect the names of the innocent, it's called "The Robin".

And yes, the challenge is to get her back, but it's a secret last play, so I can't really go into the details of the steps and I really shouldn't even be talking about it too much on a public forum.

But I'll give you a hint: the last step is "Hope she says 'yes'".

What if, instead of the challenge being making your XW come back to you (which we all know you have no control over), it was FOR YOU to live a happy life? (Irrespective of whether XW is part of it.)

I won't be happy if I haven't exhausted all resources pursuing what I think is right.

I would actually call that the possimpossible. But neither one makes a damn bit of sense.

Mine makes perfect sense, you're just not watching the right TV shows.

The bottom line for me is: is it the right thing to do? And also: not doing something I will regret.

What does "right"mean? Right for what? For whom? And how do you know?

"Right" is making sure my decisions are square with two people: me and God.

I am open to counsel from others, but at the end of the day, He and I are the two I am ultimately accountable to.

Well she doesn't want a relationship with me now without her issues addressed, and no I will not decide that the person she is now and the R we have now is enough for me. It is not.

OK, so what are you doing, then?

Being patient, hoping she's "getting there" as she told me.

I DID feel done. But then I ran a little experiment that showed me I'm not ready for someone else right now, so I can't use that tool to facilitate me moving on.

Ummm. Have you realized the flaw in this logic? If you continue to hang on to your XW, do you think you will ever be ready for someone else?

I made a vow...a covenant (not a contract). I don't know what else to say, but her actions have nothing to do with mine.

Also, why do you need that tool to facilitate you moving on? You don't need to move on with someone else to move forward without your XW, do you?

No, I don't. I was angry and pissed and wanted to see if it would help. It was a mistake.

And I also got a kick in the seat of the pants of my morals and values, and that picked me back up again. It woke me back up, so I stood up, went and bought my ducky inner-tube floaty, and am standing on the shore again.

I don't know how you are getting any action from any women wearing this ridiculous ducky thing on your waist, but to each her own, I guess.

But seriously . . . what are your morals and values that are in play here? And when does your happiness become part of that?

Well I certainly can't be happy if I'm violating my morals and values. I have found I can be happy without XW, but I can't be happy if I'm not doing what's right, which for me is standing - especially when we still have such a strong connection.

I am not sure where to draw that line. And maybe it is because I am a woman, and I have a daughter, but I wonder . . . if I were to hang on for 2+ years, while H continues to break my heart, am I teaching her the right thing or the wrong thing?

I fully believe that I am teaching my children the right things. I love their mother. I made a promise to her. As C.S. Lewis put it:

"And, of course, the promise, made when I am in love and because I am in love, to be true to the beloved as long as I live, commits me to being true even if I cease to be in love. A promise must be about things that I can do, about actions: no one can promise to go on feeling in a certain way. He might as well promise never to have a headache or always to feel hungry."
(C.S. Lewis - 1952)

I am teaching them persistence, perseverance, hard work, honoring your word, respecting family, loving throughout really difficult times - even when someone is hurting you, kindness, compassion, faithfulness, goodness, gentleness, self control, humility, and trust in God.

But I can't answer that question for you. Only you can answer that question for you. Though many of our situations are so amazingly alike, they are all still unique.

-PM