Intimacy. Sex. The World's Most Powerful Potion. Hmmmm....not easy subjects to tackle at all.
Maybe your W has some fears too on this subject. Ask her to put her armor on first before broaching the subject and I'd tell her about your fears about the "movie" with the XOW. I'm wondering if you feel secure and safe enough at this stage to take the first vulnerable step toward intimacy by talking about your fears? How would that aid in the reconnection process?
Being physically intimate through ML requires a certain level of trust for the pair of you. It seems to me that neither pair of you are ready for this phase. Change requires complete honesty which leads to greater cleaning and greater integrity.
This requires you to explore unexplored emotions and expressing unexpressed opinions. Scary, indeed! However, someone's got to take the first step. Most certainly will trigger some intense emotions for both of you.
For me, I do try very, VERY hard to squat the "movie" with Ms. Wonka and the OW out of my head. I think all of this to comes to our feelings of inadequacy in the performance department. Wasn't I good enough of lover to you? Wasn't I sexually liberating enough for you? On and on. You get the picture. I'm wondering if you are having these thoughts of inadequacy as well.
RT, the timing has certainly been bad for you two as far as reestablishing intimacy. If you have the funds I would suggest talking to a sex therapist about this subject, they can give you some pointers on how to wake that up in your W again. The fact that your W isn't pleasuring herself either would seem to indicate that her labido is nonexistent right now, so it's not an issue with you or between the two of you but rather it sounds like it's on her end. Maybe it's just that she's still recovering from the surgery, and if so then perhaps you just need to be patient. But I still think it would be a good idea to talk to a therapist to get an idea of what the road to recovery looks like.
It is not a sexual problem, but timing problem. RT's W just came out of surgery and the last thing on her mind is sex. I am sure you probably felt the same way if you had surgery as well. Me too. It is simple as that.
The responses I gave to RT above was to aid her in seeking solutions in the intimacy department so to give her time to digest and be ready to approach W at the right time should she elect that option.
Thanks friends. I've been away a few days. Doing a lot of thinking. I have a tendency to process and move much faster than my W. But sometimes I can barrel through it and it's good for me to slow down.
Everyone it right. Slow down. I think I've made it clear to W that I love and still desire her. That is all I need to do right now. I think there will come a time for more conversation, but I'm giving myself permission not to stress about it right now.
And.... remember when I said things were too quiet? Well, I'm still psychic. xOW sent and email. A begging, pleading, threat.
The email included the following:
1- How are you rehabbing?
2- I love you
3- I miss you
4- A chinese zodiac of their signs "proving" they were meant to be together
5- A statement that she "knew they were meant to be together" and "didn't understand why W can't see that"
6- A statement that she is going to move on. She is not waiting for W much longer.
(number 6 ultimatum has been given before... when they had contact during W's post-surgery hospital stay)
So W... responds and engages in an email and then text message conversation that turns decidedly angry.
xOW attacks W with things like, "You lied to me. Everything you ever told me was a lie." and "I think you never intended to divorce RT, you knew the whole time you were going back to her.", etc..., etc...
Ending in the W saying don't contact me again and the xOW saying "*F* you... you don't contact me again"
AND SO.... that's all fine and well BUT:
W didn't disclose the contact to me for 5 days. When she did I uncovered that she lied to me. Remember when I asked her if she'd had contact?... well she had... all of this. And by the time I was brought in the loop, some messages and emails had been deleted leaving gaps in the conversation.
So W and I had a talk about it:
- she "didn't want to hurt me"
- I told her she did simply by lying and that I do not need her to protect me from xOW communications.
- I also told her that if she was not finished with that relationship and still felt the need to communicate with her that I was strong and could handle that. She could leave again if she wanted.
W cried. And cried. And cried. She was sorry. And sorry. And sorry. She verbally bet herself up.
Later that night she sat down in front of me and said she had some things she needed to say. She told me how much she loved me. She told me how proud of me she was. She thanked me for being strong and for being there for her when she didn't deserve it. She told me she had blocked xOW from her I-chat and facetime. (hmmm.. but not FB and phone?... but then again, I have access to those, she might be thinking) She apologized for lying and recommitted herself to telling me if xOW contacts her immediately.
She hugged and hugged and then kissed me.
She just seems a mess. xOW sent her into a bit of a drama spin.
Me? After I thanked her and accepted her apology, I started focusing on my schedule for this week. My spring semester starts tomorrow. I've been nursing W and paving the smooth road for her... But she needs to do some of this on her own now. My focus is on my horizon... and I am just fine!
Me(F):40 WAW:44 T:13yrs M:9yrs BD:2/12 (I saw a text) ILYBINILWY: 5/12 PA admission: 12/12 (began 3/11) S:2/13 Moves in w/AP D begins: 7/13 W moves home to R: 10/13
I admire you sooooo much. For lots of things, but today for the ability you have to be understanding and kind to your W, and at the same time the strength and self worth to know and stand up for what you need.
Quote:
I also told her that if she was not finished with that relationship and still felt the need to communicate with her that I was strong and could handle that. She could leave again if she wanted.
This blew me away!!
Wow. You weren't messing around when you decided to be the spouse that your W would be a fool to leave.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
I never said it was, I just suggested talking to a therapist to discuss how to wake the sexual feelings up again when the timing is right. I think they're in danger of getting stuck in the friend zone, and when that happens it can be really difficult to reestablish intimacy.
First - Great job on the 180. Keep it up. She will be hesitant to believe those changes so keep it consistent and be patient. Keep your motives pure.. that you are loving her better and being a being RT by making those changes.
As for the topic of sex - boy that's a tough one.
So who is the dominant one in your relationship? Even if it's 50/50, there is always someone in a lesbian relationship who is more of the alpha. Is that you? or wife?
Not that it really matters as I think either way you can take the first step.
Remember - confidence is sexy. Deal with the fears of rejection and go for it. Know that her response (if negative) has absolutely NOTHING to do with you.. only where she is in her journey.
If there is anything I have learned this journey is how much I let my Ex's BS and her fears dictated my self-worth. I could have totally validated her fears without believing them.
You are awesome regardless of what your wife thinks. You are attractive regardless of what your wife thinks You are strong regardless of what your wife thinks.
Make them your truth. Believe them to your core... and I think the intimacy problem WILL change.
Step boldly
((( )))
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
AS, I agree with you. I'm an anxious about the friend zone too. W's much needed surgery hasn't been the sexiest thing to ever happen to us! I will continue to keep my eye on the issue.
Val! So glad to hear from you! To answer the question: W was more dominant. And I think it's a good question and flows into the "friend zone" danger that AS brought up.
As I sit here and think about it, W was always more dominant in respect to initiation. Now, xOW... super dominant. I know her and her ex-W well enough to have figured that out. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's one of the things my W was attracted to in the A. She hasn't stated as much (I'm not mind-reading.. really... just trying to examine), but I believe it's a valid possibility that I need to be prepared to hear and 180 on for W if she needs that.
The sex issue/non-issue is it's own entity. I'll figure it out. I'm really just going to have to talk openly with her at a later date. But the lying... ugghhhh! Boundary violation.
W said something that in the moment, I took as cheating spouse justification spew, so I ignored it, but I have been sitting with it and contemplating it's validity in weening off an affair:
She said, (paraphrased) 'I know in the past I have had a huge problem lying to you. And I did this time too, but I have been really honest and the one time I mess up I get caught. Now I feel like you're not going to believe me ever again...
(And here's the thing I (RT) am questioning...)she continued with, 'I have lied to both of you for so long it's habit in my communication. Just like you said we need to be more clear and empathetic when we communicate, I have to turn off this lying reaction and it's been hard.'
A lot of it sounds like WAS excuse/justification/fear of being caught... but the last part about habit and lying for so long (remembering the length of the A), that I'm curious if there is validity to it as part of W learning to trust me with her truth again... as odd as that sounds. She had her own fears while in her A. She even stated the fears of me finding out and losing me. So the knee-jerk, affair condition habit to lie to me is signaling that W is afraid... of something. But what?
A- the A is still on underground B- that her truth (whatever that is) will hurt me C- she likes cake. And we know she does! I may rename her Betty... (Crocker)
Me(F):40 WAW:44 T:13yrs M:9yrs BD:2/12 (I saw a text) ILYBINILWY: 5/12 PA admission: 12/12 (began 3/11) S:2/13 Moves in w/AP D begins: 7/13 W moves home to R: 10/13
