Compassion for OP

[kml]

Well, I still think it sounds like she's on Step 5 of a 12-step program - the step where you have to make amends to everyone you've hurt.

As for forgiving the OP - yes, they're often slimebuckets, BUT - a lot of our anger at them, is really mis-directed anger at our spouses. After all, the OP didn't break a vow to us - our SPOUSES broke that sacred vow. Often we redirect that anger at the OP because we don't want to accept the enormity of our spouse's betrayal.

[SunFunOne]

Nope! I have different feelings for both of them. But I feel that a woman who cheats betrays all women. I think there should be a pact among us that we would not do that to one another.

Maggot has never shown an ounce of regret. She flaunted their R despite the fact they were both married with children. She deserves nothing from me & already stole too much.

If I dwelled on it every day, plotted revenge, hassled her (them) - then there would be more that I could dod. forgive? Never! I choose who to forgive & she did not make the cut!

Barb

[FloydMan]

My exW's OM was a cop (detective actually) who was (still is) married with 2 small children (one an infant). He had no intention of leaving his marriage. My exW was staying in marriage until she got caught. They are just sneaky and deceitful people and is more about their actual character than a single action/mistake so tough for me to actually 'forgive' something that they are and will always be rather than just accepting I married someone with a serious character and judgement flaw. Not so much the actual act of adultery but more her actions, response and behaviours during and after that I still have not forgivin. The cruelty with which they try to ruin everything else about you, financially, emotionally, psychologically to gain an upper hand on everything from children to finances. The cheating in my sense still goes on and includes all the adultery plus the stealing of money and the lies through litigation. All of which have been exposed but no remorse on her part. Only more kicking on the groin to me because I am the bad guy who wouldn't accept being a doormat anymore. Forgiveness is a choice, but also be sure of what you are actually forgiving. Hard to forgive when the shots are still coming at ya. Just be at peace with yourself and forgive yourself. The other may or may not come.

[SunFunOne]

Yes, Floyd. You got it - be at peace with yourself. Forge the life that you want. Make it happen. Believe that you can have what you deserve. And eventually you will know how lucky you are to get out of that mess.

Barb

[figgeroni]

I was angry at the OP but I was much more angry at my ex. The OP did not make a vow to me. It was not up to the OP to remain faithful to me.

She was simply a player in a horrible game the ex played.

I, unwittingly, was my ex's OP. He told me they were divorced (they weren't) and he told me horrible things about his ex. Things I believed. When my ex and I divorced and I found out that I had been the OP, I emailed and apologized to her. I was sincere. I would have never gotten involved with someone who was still involved with someone else.

I think people often blame the OP because, as someone said above, it is easier to assign malicious intent to them instead of the people we married. However, often times, they are told tale...just like we were.

the ferocity with which some people talk about the OP is disturbing at best and unhealthy. It is misplaced anger.

My two boys were hurt in the divorce too...they weren't hurt by the OP...they were hurt by my ex's lies.

[FloydMan]

Thanks Barb. I will not allow myself to be abused again. Yes, men can be abused. Took me a long time to admit that. The love and support given me by family, friends (mutual and otherwise) that witnessed the behaviour is a blessing. Sorry to invade thread, but it is a good topic.

[FloydMan]

Actually KML, in my case the OM did break a vow or two. The OM is a senior police detective in our community (Married too). They met when he was on duty and my ExW's bank was held up. the armed robber was never caught. He vowed to serve and protect me my children and all the community, not play a part in destroying them. When you really think about it, his role is to prevent crime. Well, statistically speaking divorce and broken homes are directly linked to crime. So really, who is he serving and protecting on my tax dollar with his oath? No, I do not forgive him and never will. He is a nothing to me at the same time so I do have some indifference and he will never affect me again as my exW and family are not his only prey. He has a habit of this behaviour. He has issues of his own.

[AJM]

Interesting thread. For a very long time I struggled with the idea of forgiveness. Not that I wanted to hold on to the betrayal and hurt that was caused me and my kids - it's just that I didn't know what forgiveness looked like.

Is it the Disney-movie-like or Hollyweird idea that we forgive and all go on fishing trips together (a la Demi Moore and her two exes?) or does it mean that I forgive and no longer hold it against the ex and OP?

People often say that forgiveness is for myself. But honestly, I don't think that's all there is to it. Nor do I think that we need to "all just get along" with one another in the sense we do things together.

And none of that begins until the ex goes away, right? If we have kids, that may be much longer than we'd like and the danger of that is that we get into a "routine" of hatred and unresolved anger toward somebody that betrayed us. That doesn't work for me. It says I'm a victim and it says I can't control me. It says that the most important thing in my life is the dream I had of a family and after that I'm nothing and a failure.

I'm not nothing and I'm not a failure and I'm not defined by my 20 year marriage. It's a part of my life, but it's not what makes my life worth living, friends.

The OP? Who knows why they did what they did? Did they know? If they did, would they have done the same? If they didn't should we still be angry? It could have been us (thanks fig, for highlighting that.) They could be far more broken than we give them credit for. <shrug> Not sure it matters to be honest.

We were betrayed. Some of us betrayed others. People do that. Do we forgive and forget? Can we when they continue to assert their anger at us?

The answer is yes, I do forgive my ex and the OP. And to be honest, I forgave myself first and then OP and ex. My ex still tries to assert anger and drama for reasons I cannot possibly understand.

Like many of us here, I've been accused of all manner of things I've never done. I don't know why. My ex has stated she doesn't want to be forgiven. I dunno why. My daughter is angry and takes it out on me. I really don't know why.

Would I want to go on trips with them? Not really. I don't like either of them as people outside of the actions toward myself and my family. I honestly do not. But I have forgiven them for what they did to me and my family.

That seems enough anger, betrayal and hurt for all of us.

My kids deserve to learn what forgiveness means and what it looks like. So does the OM and my ex. So do I.

I think part of the issue is trying to figure out what forgiveness really means, vs. what pop culture tells us it means. I doubt I'll forget, but I don't have to hold it against them either. It happens (which is why we're here, right?)

OT, it's always nice to hear the challenges.

Peace,
AJ

[AJM]

Gabbysmom, I hear ya. I don't think it's a one size fits all kind of world.

Compassion, not over my dead body. Forgiveness, who knows.

Those two are, at least, not mutually exclusive

How about 10 years from now. Think you'll feel the same? Or when your daughter goes off to college? Not picking - just asking.

And out of curiosity, how is that affecting you in the here and now?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting you become friends or anything like that. I'm not suggesting you sweep something under the rug. And I'm certainly not suggesting how you should feel.

I'm just curious. We come from different situations and I can only imagine the hurt and suffering you felt and still feel when you see your daughter. In some ways, I live that with my own daughter, although she's much older and I doubt it's very similar; just that I know how seeing a hurt child affects me. I also see it with my son, especially around the holidays.

For me, I have been very actively looking for a way to break the cycle of hurt for me and my kids. For me, anger isn't going to work for very long. Changing who I am won't either. There was another way for me to adapt and still be me and still help my kids. A different perspective.

We've been doing this a long time now, eh?

AJ

[FloydMan]

Yes we have been doing it a long time. Which is why I need to end this cycle of hurt too and proposed an offer to settle. As Sun said, forge the life I want a get out of this mess. Stop the cycle of abuse. Trying but can't control the situation. Makes compassion impossible and forgiveness that much more of a stretch. Funny AJM, my exW too said she did not want forgiveness and did not know what that meant either. Perhaps their own inner struggle with guilt or, just a shot to hurt more. Who knows? That is their issue. Just want my life now. I tried sooooo hard and I am tired.