I think I can stop this.... can you help me?

[Fartiltre]

Fitz,

Sorry to see you here, but welcome!

I have read your posts and all though I am not sure I understand the last one from DBmod I will try to give you my perspective!

This gets exhausting, I don't know how some of you folks have done this for so long..

I have been here for almost 9 months and you will find people that have been in here for years. It all comes down to a few things: How dedicated are you and do you have the stamina this craves.
(If you catch up on Labug you will discover that she just started dating her H after 2½ year)

We normally tell newcomers that this is a marathon and not a sprint. If you choose to do this you are in for the long haul. Few sitches are solved in less than a year! Read that again and try to take it in! A YEAR!
You seem to have a very amicable W and that might confuse you. I write this out of extensive personal experience since I lived with a very amicable WAW for 5 months before she moved. Amicable doesn’t by rule mean in doubt! An amicable WAW can be just as determined as an angry WAW – don’t let it fool you!
You have to realize that your actions from now on should be turned toward the fact that she will move. If she don’t then great but she properly will!
This doesn’t mean that your M can’t be saved! Lots of Ms are saved even after the D-papers are signed!

You have to realize that if you choose this road you will be given advice that seems totally ridiculous to you since DB is counterintuitive but know that the people in here wants your best and even though they don’t know you – they care! They want to help you save your M. The advice given should be followed but it is your call, your decision and your responsibility.

Here’s what I think you should do right now:

Sandis rules
Read them and apply them – at once!!!
You will find them here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2250607&page=1
They won’t save your M but they will keep you from F-ing up any further.

DR
If you haven’t read it – do it! Twice!
Please remember that you being here and all that you learn in here should NOT be shared!!
First chapter is here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_the_divorce_remedy.htm

I think I get it now. She pretty much wants out of this marriage but it seems like she is trying to let me down easy.

Perhaps and perhaps not! The important part of this sentence is you thinking about WHY she wants out!
We talk a lot about 180s in here. A 180 is in short a turn in actions. If you normally do A then you start doing B. It is of outmost importance that this is not acted – you need to feel that the change is good at that the change is something you will live for the rest of your life! That feeling might change but when you start 180 you need it otherwise it will come out false and your W will see right through it. If you can think of some reasons she wants to leave and you can 180 them then do it.

Do I just let her go and hope that one day she can see change in me and come back?

Unfortunately the answer to this one is YES.
You have to let her go! You don’t stand in her way but neither do you help her! If she wants to move – she moves! If she doesn’t want to share bed – she leaves the bedroom and so on! Don’t argue and don’t help! See the point is that you can’t argue with a WAS since they act on feelings! Feelings can’t be argued! You have properly known somebody in love but have you ever convinced a person in love that they shouldn’t be? Properly not and this is the same! The WAS has to learn this by themselves and from experience. Therefore you DON’T argue but you show by actions that their decision is wrong. Since this is the way about all of this it takes time – a lot of time! It is often told that this is the hardest thing you will ever do – I believe this to be true!

Start educating yourselves by reading books. You will properly feel like starting out with books about marriage, partners, attraction and so on but since this is all about you do try to mix in a few books about personal development.

Every time that I try to talk to her it turns into an argument with her becoming more and more convincing that she wants to leave.

I couldn’t have worded this better! Every time you make her state that’s she wants out the feeling sinks one level deeper into her! That’s why pursuing and pleading is a no-go! Stop it and do stop it for good!
She will have to initiate the next talk about your M!

What advice would you give me at this point? Are the chances of her not actually moving? Do I just let her go and hope that one day she can se change in me and come back? I could use some help here, this totally stinks and is exhausting!!

I hope the above set you off. Realize that I am not a VET and hopefully they will look by you!
Chance is always there, but don’t count on it. She will properly move out but that doesn’t mean M can be saved!

I know this stinks, exhausts and hurts – trust me, I know! It will get better and easier as time passes and trust me once again when I tell you that this can be salvaged. I see hope I your situation! You have to do the same!

Start working the above right away, and then start working YOU!

Exercise and eat. This will help you feeling better and properly also your sleep
Change your looks! New clothing, new haircut, new fragrance and so on.

The two above are quite easy – here is the hard ones:
GAL (GET A LIFE): This doesn’t mean hanging out at bars! It means meet new people, take on a new hobby, do volunteer work – do things you would like to do!
FOCUS ON YOU: Your W is properly around 99% of your brain now but the case is that all this should be put in to you. This doesn’t make sense right now but see it this way. You are properly not the guy that your W fell in love with. Something changed. You can’t change your W but you can certainly change you. You do NOT change you by looking at W – makes sense? The big question is thereby: Who and how do you want to be? Find out and make it happen!
ACT-AS-IF: Act as if you are all right! Nobody wants to be around a sad, whining, crying, pleading person. So act as if you are all right!!
STUDY: Read books and read all you can in here – find the time to educate you on the WAW. Google it as well.

You will also meet the word detachment in here. I had a hard time understanding this but here is the best I have read:

WIFE:ANGRY-YOU:ANGRY : WIFE:SAD-YOU:SAD : WIFE:HAPPY-YOU:HAPPY
WIFE:ANGRY-YOU:HAPPY : WIFE:SAD-YOU:HAPPY : WIFE:HAPPY-YOU:HAPPY

Don’t let her emotions rule your emotions!!!! You are the HAPPY guy from now on!
If you were single and wanted to attract a lady – who would you be?

Detachment takes time but I do hope the above gives you the picture. You detach from her feelings!


Remember NEVER to discuss this with W. If she ask about a new shirt then just say “Well, I thought it was nice” – never ever talk about DBing, DR or anything! Read Sandis rules twice every day!

Feel free to post further questions and keep posting!

All the best!

F

[Fitz]

Thank you for your words of advice and encouragement, much appreciated. Our problems have been going on for the better part of this year. She has threatened D or Separation on about 5 occasions now. Each time we had "the talk", which would be me convincing her to stay.

The toughest part of this has been getting through the denial and accepting that this is really happening, and then trying to convince myself that I can do something about it.

I have read Sandi's rules as well as DB and DR. I would consider myself about 1 week into this situation now. I find it difficult to know when to do what. I know that I will figure it out eventually, but for the most part this week I have been working on detaching. When we are home together I do my own thing, either playing with my son or reading.

But there have been several instances where I have not been sure if I have been misreading the signs that she is giving me, or if I have just been looking too hard for signs.

For example: all of these talks have been initiated by her. She will ask me what I want here. Most of the times I have tried to avoid having those conversations, just said something along the lines of us still needing to cool down a little before we discuss it, or saying that we should talk about this later. The one time that I did say that I loved her and wanted to give it another shot, that is the time she ripped into me about not being able to change and things never getting better and told me she wanted a separation. How should I handle this from now on when she wants to talk about it?

I have also been sleeping on the couch for the past week. Two nights ago she told me that I didn't have to do that every night, that she would take a turn, but I just shrugged it off and said I'm ok. At the time I really didn't care to talk about any such arrangement. But then last night she said that it was ok if I sleep in the bed, implying that we'd both be there. But it just seemed awkward, so I couched it again. What would be your recommendation in that situation? Should I take her up on either of those offers or should I wait until things cool down a bit?

She has also emailed me at least once a day, usually not saying anything important. For the sake of making things worse for myself I just have not been responding to her. Is that the right move?

And then today I found out that she had gotten into my cell phone account online to view the numbers that I have been calling and texting, and she had even called 2 of them and hung up on them just to see who they were. What would be her reasoning for that?

Tonight I came home from work, she was working at home all day, and when I got home I noticed that she hadn't even showered yet. She was pigging out on food all day, and I'm talking junk food, and she was in a foul mood. It almost seems that me not chasing her down like I have in the past is already gotten to her. I sometimes feel like a simple conversation could fix this. But that could also be denial on my part.

Plans for thanksgiving came up again. I asked her if she was gonna go to her uncles house and she said yeah. But then she said wait a minute what did u just say? So I repeated myself, and she said am I going to go!! You don't mean are WE going to go!! Then she went off on an expletive tirade saying that she doesn't care what she does and as far as she's concerned the holidays can kiss her u know what, and she would just assume to never leave the house again. I'm still learning this 180 stuff, so I simply responded by getting up and telling her I was going to get a pizza, and asking if she wanted anything. Trying to show her that this wasn't bothering me. (We did eat pizza together by the way afterwards).

Sorry for the rant, my head is just spinning with all that is going on. I'm confused. One minute I think everything will be ok, and we are acting like we always have, and the next I am convinced that it's the end of the line. I'm sure a lot of you have felt this way several times. I think I am handling it ok for now, it's just awful not knowing.

[mustardseed]

Hi Fitz. Sorry to see you here but it has been an excellent supportive outlet to me in my short time being here. It is nice to be given advice that doesn't involve giving up.

It does, however, involve detachment--which other posters have already mentioned. This is the key to surviving this process because right now so much is out of your control, and it is really important that you let go of those things that you cannot control (your wife in the case) and feel ok with it. The only way to accomplish this is to detach, and to focus on the things you can control (yourself). At first it feels like you are faking it, but once you start to truly detach it starts to feel pretty darn good despite the negative energy hovering around the WAS. I am still very early in this process, but this week I have started to feel the real benefits of detaching.

You have to stop trying to read into her actions--the good and the bad. She seems to be all over the place and she will drive you crazy if you go along for her ride right now. One of the best metaphors someone told me here (maybe tryingtodo180?) was to let WAS drive their bus. Don't try to get into the drivers seat, but get the heck off of it ASAP for your own sanity. And while she is going for her joy ride, work on yourself. Keep yourself busy, make positive changes for yourself (you can start with her complaints about you, but only change the ones that make sense to you). You learned your lesson about the letter, and it seems as if she was pushing you to defend yourself, beg, argue, plead, so that she could once again be justified in her decision to leave. Stop playing that game.

You will have good days and bad days, on my bad days I try to stay out of the house a lot. I will go for a walk, a drive, to the library, or throw myself into work or a hobby. I think part of the GAL is to have an outlet that allows you to change your negative feelings into a positive attitude (PMA). You have time on your side while she tries to figure out how to navigate this. Let her go crazy with the details while you focus on moving forward. It is easier said then done, but when you finally feel what detaching feels like it will make things much easier to deal with.

[S4tk]

Hi Fitz,

I'm four months from BD and about a month or so into DBing. It [censored], so know that you're not the only one going through this. What I am learning so far:

1) There is stuff I want to change in my life.

2) If my W walks away for good, it will not be my choice - BUT, I will survive.

3) My W has her own big issues and this is causing her not to acting normally. Thus, the importance of not believing what she says or does.

4) I do have some control issues, even though I was blind to them. So, even if W is throwing the "control script" at me, there is validity there.m

5) The process will take longer than I want.

Good luck sir.

s4tk

[Fitz]

Thank you, I appreciate all of your advice and encouragement, especially at a time when you are all dealing with your own issues as well. I've seen this coming now for months, I should've started all of this a lot sooner

[Fitz]

This will be the first weekend for me DBing, as last weekend she was away visiting her grandparents so we were not around each other. I have planned the whole weekend out in my mind to stay busy and try to let her see that I am ok. This morning (Saturday), I plan on doing my share of the housework as usual (dishes, laundry and just picking up), then I plan on taking my dog for a nice long walk, then I will take my son out in the yard to rake leaves together for a few hours. Tonight I am going to spend some time at my friends house before finally coming home to sleep on the couch.

Tomorrow will be similar, with the exception of I will not be going to my friends but instead will find something fun to do with my son.

I will not be asking her what her plans are, I will not be inviting her to do any of these activities with me, if she asks to join me I will say of course she can.

But most important I will not ask anything about how she is feeling about the relationship. That has to remain my #1 goal from here in out, I get that part now.

Won't she miss not having me around, even if it is just to use me as a doormat? I mean the smallest things like eating dinner together or watching tv together. I fear that this could backfire and make her decision easier!!

I guess it doesn't matter, I have to do what needs to be done at this point for my own sanity.

[Fitz]

s4tk, one of my wife's biggest complaints has been that I am controlling as well. Can I ask what you have done to try to change this about yourself?

I was always the type that when she told me she was going out I would ask her a million questions, where are you going, who's going, when will you be back, etc.

And I was always the one to ask her who she was in the phone with, or who was texting her.

This past week I have done none of that. When her phone rang I have said nothing, and when she has gone out I have simply said have fun.

These are easy changes that I feel comfortable in making.

But I am trying to come up with something bigger. Something that will let her know that I am changing from being controlling. Is there something bigger, or is it just going to be more of an accumulation of the smaller things?

[Fitz]

Thanks mustard for your advice. I know that I have to get off her bus and just let her drive, and I'm in the process of trying to do that.

And I agree that I am driving myself crazy trying to read her signs. But at the same time I just don't want to miss one if I actually get a good sign. I'm sure you know what I mean... It's still the hope and the denial part of me I guess

[Fitz]

I enjoyed my day today (Saturday), and things went pretty much as planned for the most part. I spent most of the day with my son, out in the yard, took him to a parade, and played in the house with him. I stayed out of my wife's hair, but was pleasant when I was around her.

While my son was napping she ran out to the store to pick a few things up. When she came home she brought the bags in, and she told me that there was more stuff in the car. And then she excitedly said, "oh yeah I forgot that when I was away last weekend I bought a king size comforter". This was kind of a big deal. You see currently we sleep in a queen size bed, but we have separate blankets because we are both blanket hogs, plus our dog sleeps in the bed. We have been talking for a long time about getting a king size comforter so that we can both sleep under it together, to be close. We had been shopping for one several times but had yet to find one that we liked that was in our price range. So why now I thought to myself? You tell me you want to separate but then you go and do this? Made me wonder exactly where was her head at? But I said nothing, I just said wow that's great, and headed out to do more yard work.

I came back in about an hour later. I was exhausted. I lay on the couch for a few and was watching tv, and she came over and gave me a hug. I hugged her back of course.

She had been pleasant for most of the day. Later on, around 6 o'clock I told her I was thinking of going out to one of my friends houses to watch the fight. She seemed upset. She said I wish you would have told me this earlier! Whatever! You know what, that's fine!! I'm going out tomorrow night anyways so yeah, you go ahead and do your thing!

Before I left I helped give my son a bath and get him to bed. Then I made dinner for us and we ate together, side by side. While we were eating I saw out of the corner of my eye that she was looking at me, for a few moments too, almost examining me. So I looked at her, right in the eyes, and I said I love you. The minute that I said it I wished that I hadn't. But she kept looking right at me and she said I love you too.

After dinner I cleaned up and left. On my way out the door she asked me when I would be home, and then she told me to be good.

[Fitz]

Sunday was a decent day. W took our son out for the better part of the day. When they got back I played with him. I have been doing a decent job this far of applying the 37 rules and detaching. I feel like she might be kind of wondering why I haven't brought up our marriage and why I'm not begging like I always do. So that is good for me I guess. How do others respond when they feel as though their S is trying to draw them in to reverting to past behaviors?

For example, she took down a bunch of pictures of me and my son that were in the bedroom. I said nothing.

And when I was playing with my son I told him I love him, and from the other room she yells what about me?

She also continues to question every little thing that I do. For example when she got home today I was in jeans and a sweatshirt, I had been doing more yard work. And she wanted to know why I was all dressed up!! She kept asking me what I did and where I went while she was gone.

And she continuously asks me who I was with last night and what I was doing. We had some trust issues to begin with, I feel like maybe the detaching is making those worse for her. But I will continue what I have started